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Author Topic:   The 2020 Democratic Presidential Nomination Campaign
Faith
Member
Posts: 32605
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 181 of 235 (860229)
08-06-2019 11:44 AM
Reply to: Message 179 by AZPaul3
08-06-2019 2:45 AM


The Left's Imaginary Racism
YOU are talking about "brown people," Trump is not, and the Republicans are not. Only the racist Leftists are thinking in terms of race. Nobody can talk about culture or ideology without the Left stupidly calling it racist. Like that quote. What ARE you talking about? There is not a racist word in it, you are hallucinating it yourself, just like all the wacko Leftists. Stop it, you are destroying this nation with your unfounded accusations.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 179 by AZPaul3, posted 08-06-2019 2:45 AM AZPaul3 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 182 by AZPaul3, posted 08-06-2019 4:46 PM Faith has not yet responded
 Message 184 by DrJones*, posted 08-06-2019 5:19 PM Faith has not yet responded
 Message 189 by Taq, posted 08-07-2019 6:21 PM Faith has responded

    
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 4380
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 182 of 235 (860303)
08-06-2019 4:46 PM
Reply to: Message 181 by Faith
08-06-2019 11:44 AM


Re: The Left's Imaginary Racism
Stop it, you are destroying this nation with your unfounded accusations.

Wait! Isn't Satan doing that already because of gay marriage and socialism and feminism and everything else you personally don't happen to like?


Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 181 by Faith, posted 08-06-2019 11:44 AM Faith has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 183 by Chiroptera, posted 08-06-2019 4:54 PM AZPaul3 has responded

  
Chiroptera
Member
Posts: 6761
From: Oklahoma
Joined: 09-28-2003
Member Rating: 5.4


Message 183 of 235 (860307)
08-06-2019 4:54 PM
Reply to: Message 182 by AZPaul3
08-06-2019 4:46 PM


Re: The Left's Imaginary Racism
I was wondering how Trump could have possibly have been elected....

It says something about the qualities of our current president that the best argument anyone has made in his defense is that he didn't know what he was talking about. -- Paul Krugman

This message is a reply to:
 Message 182 by AZPaul3, posted 08-06-2019 4:46 PM AZPaul3 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 185 by AZPaul3, posted 08-06-2019 5:34 PM Chiroptera has not yet responded

  
DrJones*
Member
Posts: 1915
From: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Joined: 08-19-2004
Member Rating: 4.7


Message 184 of 235 (860316)
08-06-2019 5:19 PM
Reply to: Message 181 by Faith
08-06-2019 11:44 AM


Re: The Left's Imaginary Racism
Stop it, you are destroying this nation with your unfounded accusations.

yeah instead of focusing on trump's racism we should be lying about his birthplace, that's the acceptable level of disrespect for a president.

It's not enough to bash in heads, you've got to bash in minds
soon I discovered that this rock thing was true
Jerry Lee Lewis was the devil
Jesus was an architect previous to his career as a prophet
All of a sudden i found myself in love with the world
And so there was only one thing I could do
Was ding a ding dang my dang along ling long - Jesus Built my Hotrod Ministry
Live every week like it's Shark Week! - Tracey Jordan
Just a monkey in a long line of kings. - Matthew Good
If "elitist" just means "not the dumbest motherfucker in the room", I'll be an elitist! - Get Your War On
*not an actual doctor

This message is a reply to:
 Message 181 by Faith, posted 08-06-2019 11:44 AM Faith has not yet responded

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 4380
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 3.2


(6)
Message 185 of 235 (860322)
08-06-2019 5:34 PM
Reply to: Message 183 by Chiroptera
08-06-2019 4:54 PM


Re: The Left's Imaginary Racism
Wait! Isn't Satan doing that already because of gay marriage and socialism and feminism and everything else you personally don't happen to like?
I was wondering how Trump could have possibly have been elected....

Excuse me, Sir. Are you implying that Satan, a man of wealth and taste, a god of power and intellect, would stoop so low as to have anything to do with this brain dead idiot Trump?


Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 183 by Chiroptera, posted 08-06-2019 4:54 PM Chiroptera has not yet responded

  
LamarkNewAge
Member
Posts: 1518
Joined: 12-22-2015


Message 186 of 235 (860332)
08-06-2019 9:05 PM
Reply to: Message 180 by Theodoric
08-06-2019 9:57 AM


Support for open borders growing due to age demographics.
Theodoric took issue with my "growing" part:

quote:
You cannot know it is growing. There is one poll you presented. There is nothing you can have compared it to. Show me some other polls and we can compare the questions and the poll results. Until then don't make claims that are not supported by any evidence whatsoer

If you would read my (rejected by EvC staff as a promoted topic) thread posts, you will see what I am talking about.

https://www.evcforum.net/dm.php?control=msg&t=19716

I was simply pointing out that the 90% opposition, to open borders, among 64 & older Americans means that the strongly opposed side is the same side that will be passing away, generally. They are, more often than not, the age group that dies.

The youngest age group (18-34) is almost 50% supportive of open borders. This group is the least likely to die, infact its gets newer members every day, plus the oldest members of this group move into the 35-49 age group.

The poll was back in June of 2018.

This is August of 2019.

The fact that many of the 65+ group have died since then, means the group is getting replaced by the most supportive age group.

Thus "growing" support.

quote:
I also love the claim that since "professional Democrats" opppose open borders the base must support it. Again no evidence just one random poll result.

Actually I was lamenting the fact that the professional Democrats are giving "open borders" a bad odor due to endless propaganda against the idea. I am sure that could erode support among Democrats, but I am not entirely sure.

I am pretty sure many minority groups and immigrants have been intimidated against supporting "open borders" They probably feel their patriotism demands opposition, because the Democrats told them so.

quote:
Again I need to say it again I guess. Decriminalization ≠ Open borders. That little formula there means they are not the same thing.

I am glad you can read people's minds when they are asked polling questions.

You need to consider WHEN the poll was asked, before forming an opinion.

I think the Marist/NPR/PBS NEWSHOUR poll (the one with 66% opposition to decriminalization that we heard so much about) might have had a lot of people interpret the question in a way that might have - AT THE TIME OF THIS CHRONOLOGICALLY EARLY POLL - made the question & answer seem like an "open border's" issue.

http://maristpoll.marist.edu/...Tables_1907190926.pdf#page=3

Again, the professional Democrats have effectively trashed Open Borders since the poll came out.

Heck, the professional Democrats seem to want to bitch about the Hill-HarrisX poll, which actually showed fairly underwhelming opposition to illegal immigrants simply receiving a fine. (41%)

https://thehill.com/...il-fines-for-illegal-border-crossings

Why do I say the professional Democrats are attacking the idea of genuine decriminalization?

See this again:

quote:
Two other surveys conducted in recent weeks drew sharply different results, likely because the pollsters’ questions intimated that repealing the illegal entry law would leave immigration violations either scaled down to fines or unpunished.

A Hill-HarrisX poll released earlier this month reached the opposite conclusion of the one commissioned by Data For Progress, with 41% of voters backing criminalization and only 31% saying the civil system should handle those offenses.

But the pollster posed a false question. The Hill-HarrisX poll asked whether voters thought migrants who cross the border without authorization should “face civil fines or should they be subject to criminal prosecution.” No one has proposed shifting immigration enforcement to a scheme based on fines. The punishments under civil law include deportation and yearslong prohibition from returning legally to the United States. ICE’s detention system that locks up more than 50,000 migrants per day and the temporary holding facilities run by Border Patrol also both operate under civil law.

https://www.huffpost.com/...-says_n_5d41fecae4b0ca604e2c310b



This message is a reply to:
 Message 180 by Theodoric, posted 08-06-2019 9:57 AM Theodoric has not yet responded

    
LamarkNewAge
Member
Posts: 1518
Joined: 12-22-2015


Message 187 of 235 (860452)
08-07-2019 4:23 PM


I found another poll that touches on Open Borders (pre-Democratic smear campaign)
I managed to miss this one when it came out.

I can not access the poll (it requires a subscription), but it actually can be interpreted as only 53% of Americans opposing a type of Open Borders (not exactly open borders because it does involve checks), with 39% supporting.

Here I will have to try to link our way to an understanding, since I do not have the actual poll before me.

It came from Rasmussen Reports

quote:
Voters Want Strong Borders, Say Wall is Not ‘Immoral’

Jan 14

Most voters continue to favor strongly controlled borders and reject House Speaker Nancy Pelosi’s charge that it is immoral for the United States to build a border wall.

The latest Rasmussen Reports national telephone and online survey finds that 53% of Likely U.S. Voters think it is better for the United States to tightly control who comes into the country. Thirty-nine percent (39%) disagree and say it is better to open our borders to anyone who wants to come here as long as they are not a terrorist or a criminal. (To see survey question wording, click here.)

The survey of 1,000 Likely Voters was conducted on January 10 and 13, 2019 by Rasmussen Reports. The margin of sampling error is +/- 3 percentage points with a 95% level of confidence. Field work for all Rasmussen Reports surveys is conducted by Pulse Opinion Research, LLC. See methodology.

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/...s_say_wall_is_not_immoral


Here is the way I can present the poll, by quoting the ultra-conservative source celebrating the results.

quote:
Poll: 65% of Democrat Voters Say ‘Open Our Border to Anyone’ Who Isn’t ‘A Terrorist or Criminal’

By Craig Bannister | January 16, 2019 | 2:27 PM EST

About two-thirds of Democrat voters want the U.S. to open its borders to “anyone who wants to come here” – as long as that person isn’t either a criminal or terrorist, a new Rasmussen Poll finds.

In the national survey of 1,000 likely voters, conducted January 10-13, 2019, 65% of those identifying as Democrats said it is in America’s best interest “To open our borders to anyone who wants to come here as long as they are not a terrorist or a criminal.” Only about a quarter (26%) of Democrats said the U.S. should “tightly control who come into the country.”

In contrast, 80% of Republican voters said the U.S. should tightly control who enters the country, as did 56% of all likely voters surveyed. Only a third (34%) of all voters said the U.S. should welcome “anyone” in who isn’t a terrorist or criminal.

“Generally speaking, which is better for the United States?”

Democrats’ Response:

“To tightly control who comes into the country”: 26%
“To open our borders to anyone who wants to come here as long as they are not a terrorist or a criminal”: 65%
“Not Sure”: 10%
Republicans’ Response:

“To tightly control who comes into the country”: 80%
“To open our borders to anyone who wants to come here as long as they are not a terrorist or a criminal”: 16%
“Not Sure”: 4%
All Likely Voters (Including “Other” party affiliations):

“To tightly control who comes into the country”: 56%
“To open our borders to anyone who wants to come here as long as they are not a terrorist or a criminal”: 34%
“Not Sure”: 10%

The perceived consequences of illegal immigration appears to have influenced respondents’ views. Fully 91% of those who said illegal immigration increases “the level of serious crime in America” also said they want tight border control, as did 86% of those who said illegal immigrants are “a significant strain on the U.S. budget.”

Meanwhile, 74% of those who said illegal immigration has “no impact” on serious crime, and 77% of those who said it does not provide a significant strain on the U.S. budget, also said the U.S. should open its borders to anyone who isn’t a threat.

https://www.cnsnews.com/...rder-anyone-who-isnt-terrorist-or


Democrats have been attacking Open Borders so much lately, that there will probably be a retreat from this ONCE momentous movement toward much higher immigration.

Only 53% opposed!

Wow.

That was EARLY 2019.

Those were the days.

(Democrats seem to be against making the case to change people's minds and would rather join Republicans in the smear)


Replies to this message:
 Message 188 by Theodoric, posted 08-07-2019 5:57 PM LamarkNewAge has responded

    
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 6485
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.4


Message 188 of 235 (860475)
08-07-2019 5:57 PM
Reply to: Message 187 by LamarkNewAge
08-07-2019 4:23 PM


Re: I found another poll that touches on Open Borders (pre-Democratic smear campaign)
Again the question asked is pretty meaningless. What is meant by "open our borders"? Maybe we are discussing different concepts. What is your definition of open borders?

Edited by Theodoric, : Quote


Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 187 by LamarkNewAge, posted 08-07-2019 4:23 PM LamarkNewAge has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 191 by LamarkNewAge, posted 08-07-2019 8:55 PM Theodoric has responded

    
Taq
Member
Posts: 7997
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 3.8


(1)
Message 189 of 235 (860477)
08-07-2019 6:21 PM
Reply to: Message 181 by Faith
08-06-2019 11:44 AM


Re: The Left's Imaginary Racism
Faith writes:

YOU are talking about "brown people," Trump is not, and the Republicans are not.

Are you serious?

What color were all of those people in the caravans that Republicans feared so much? Which border are the Republicans so keenly focused on? The one between the US and the brown people, or the one between the US and the overly considerate white people with endearing accents?

Edited by Taq, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 181 by Faith, posted 08-06-2019 11:44 AM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 190 by Faith, posted 08-07-2019 6:27 PM Taq has responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 32605
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 190 of 235 (860478)
08-07-2019 6:27 PM
Reply to: Message 189 by Taq
08-07-2019 6:21 PM


Re: The Left's Imaginary Racism
YOU are the one interested in their color, Trump is not, the Republicans are not. It's a Leftist preoccupation, the Right has no interest in their color.

And there is no evidence of the Left's weird ascription of racism or white supremacy to Trump, who has denounced both many times, yet somehow what's in Leftist heads is taken for the reality instead of the actual reality. This is of course insanity but this will not be admitted on the Left.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 189 by Taq, posted 08-07-2019 6:21 PM Taq has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 194 by ringo, posted 08-08-2019 12:41 PM Faith has responded
 Message 200 by Taq, posted 08-08-2019 3:12 PM Faith has responded

    
LamarkNewAge
Member
Posts: 1518
Joined: 12-22-2015


Message 191 of 235 (860485)
08-07-2019 8:55 PM
Reply to: Message 188 by Theodoric
08-07-2019 5:57 PM


Re: I found another poll that touches on Open Borders (pre-Democratic smear campaign)
quote:
Again the question asked is pretty meaningless. What is meant by "open our borders"? Maybe we are discussing different concepts. What is your definition of open borders?

Who is "we"?

I never know if you are talking about opinions of those polled, or my view?

I better wait for a clarification from you.

(I can't even talk about Democratic primary issues without you finding all sorts of views to plaster me with)

(Theodoric is good at pulling stuff out of his a$$ and then launching the sticky (?) stuff at his target)


This message is a reply to:
 Message 188 by Theodoric, posted 08-07-2019 5:57 PM Theodoric has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 192 by Theodoric, posted 08-07-2019 11:46 PM LamarkNewAge has responded

    
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 6485
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.4


Message 192 of 235 (860492)
08-07-2019 11:46 PM
Reply to: Message 191 by LamarkNewAge
08-07-2019 8:55 PM


Re: I found another poll that touches on Open Borders (pre-Democratic smear campaign)
Done here too.

Good day Sir!


Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 191 by LamarkNewAge, posted 08-07-2019 8:55 PM LamarkNewAge has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 193 by LamarkNewAge, posted 08-07-2019 11:52 PM Theodoric has not yet responded

    
LamarkNewAge
Member
Posts: 1518
Joined: 12-22-2015


Message 193 of 235 (860494)
08-07-2019 11:52 PM
Reply to: Message 192 by Theodoric
08-07-2019 11:46 PM


Re: I found another poll that touches on Open Borders (pre-Democratic smear campaign)
Run from any and all attempts to respond to you.

You said, in the other thread, that I would ignore the links you gave me.

You then bragged that they had links to the source material, which you said I would ignore.

I went to your links.

Then:

I actually found the source material.

(I have been searching the internet to get all the relevant information, relative to the discussion, in your other topic)


This message is a reply to:
 Message 192 by Theodoric, posted 08-07-2019 11:46 PM Theodoric has not yet responded

    
ringo
Member
Posts: 17138
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 194 of 235 (860537)
08-08-2019 12:41 PM
Reply to: Message 190 by Faith
08-07-2019 6:27 PM


Re: The Left's Imaginary Racism
Faith writes:

YOU are the one interested in their color, Trump is not, the Republicans are not. It's a Leftist preoccupation, the Right has no interest in their color.


If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it's probably a duck - not just people preoccupied with ducks.

"Come all of you cowboys and don't ever run
As long as there's bullets in both of your guns"
-- Woody Guthrie

This message is a reply to:
 Message 190 by Faith, posted 08-07-2019 6:27 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 195 by Faith, posted 08-08-2019 12:43 PM ringo has responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 32605
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 195 of 235 (860539)
08-08-2019 12:43 PM
Reply to: Message 194 by ringo
08-08-2019 12:41 PM


Re: The Left's Imaginary Racism
Yeah but it doesn't, it's purely in the imagination of his opponents.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 194 by ringo, posted 08-08-2019 12:41 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 196 by ringo, posted 08-08-2019 1:14 PM Faith has responded
 Message 199 by Taq, posted 08-08-2019 3:10 PM Faith has responded

    
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