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Author Topic:   The 2020 Democratic Presidential Nomination Campaign
Phat
Member
Posts: 13699
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 316 of 412 (871354)
02-01-2020 11:06 AM
Reply to: Message 315 by ringo
02-01-2020 10:45 AM


Re: Powerful ad from Sanders campaign
I am a political moderate who sometimes manifests a selfish personality.(Warning )
I have no problem helping people who have been marginalized. the fear that I have is that it will affect me negatively and I am most definitely not one of the 1%. Theo calls faith an "entitled old white lady: but last I heard she is half-blind and struggling to afford even a decent computer.

I look at it like this. Say you lived in an average family with hard-working parents. Yes, you grew up in the Aberration of the late fifties and sixties, but your family was not wealthy.(Though they were better off than the average Puerto Rican)
Dad died and left a modest will. So you initially stood to inherit maybe $25,000.00. Now imagine that your "family" adopted 20 more children. Now, you are left with $1,250.00 rather than $25,000.00. Thus, I am not against helping more people. I am just afraid of being hurt by it.


“The only way I know to drive out evil from the country is by the constructive method of filling it with good.”lvin Coolidge
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
“As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.”-RC Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith

- You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do.
Anne Lamott

This message is a reply to:
 Message 315 by ringo, posted 02-01-2020 10:45 AM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 317 by ringo, posted 02-01-2020 11:18 AM Phat has not yet responded
 Message 318 by Theodoric, posted 02-01-2020 11:25 AM Phat has not yet responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 17924
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 317 of 412 (871356)
02-01-2020 11:18 AM
Reply to: Message 316 by Phat
02-01-2020 11:06 AM


Re: Powerful ad from Sanders campaign
Phat writes:

Say you lived in an average family with hard-working parents. Yes, you grew up in the Aberration of the late fifties and sixties, but your family was not wealthy.(Though they were better off than the average Puerto Rican)
Dad died and left a modest will. So you initially stood to inherit maybe $25,000.00. Now imagine that your "family" adopted 20 more children. Now, you are left with $1,250.00 rather than $25,000.00.


That isn't too far from the mark.

I didn't always get along with my father. He did threaten more than once to cut me out of his will. I told him, "Go ahead."

I owe as much to my parents as anybody - but not cash. What they gave me could not be diminished by spreading it thinner.


But your hangups have nothing to do with my remark to Faith. Her posts have become downright embarassing. I can no longer believe that she is just right-wing stupid. She is either a troll or she is actively promoting evil.

"I'm Fallen and I can't get up!"

This message is a reply to:
 Message 316 by Phat, posted 02-01-2020 11:06 AM Phat has not yet responded

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 7043
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 2.5


(1)
Message 318 of 412 (871357)
02-01-2020 11:25 AM
Reply to: Message 316 by Phat
02-01-2020 11:06 AM


Re: Powerful ad from Sanders campaign
So others must suffer so you can keep what you feel you are entitled to? Calling her entitled does not mean she is well off, it means she like you feel you deserve more than minorities and the disenfranchised because your whiteness has more value. So fuck you too.
This is not everyone against white people. This is everyone against the 1% and their minions that keep you, Faith and everyone else down so they can have an even bigger piece of the pie. They are able to manipulate you to support them by making you fear brown people. Do you really think they and donnie and the rest of the GOP give a rat's ass about you and those like you? If you do you are a bigger fool than I thought you were.
People like Sanders and Warren do not want to make the middle and poorer people suffer. They want to level the playing field and make the ultra wealthy pay their fair share. Our economy now redistributes wealth to the top. There is no redistribution down.
Your sense of entitlement refuses to let you see the facts in front of your eyes.

Your little example is ridiculous because it does not represent actual economics un any shape or form. That is not how economics works on a national level. There is no finite pot of money. That is not to say there is unlimited money, but capital is created and lost every day. The billionaires got a lot of their money from the abuse of workers and the system.


Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 316 by Phat, posted 02-01-2020 11:06 AM Phat has not yet responded

  
LamarkNewAge
Member
Posts: 1620
Joined: 12-22-2015
Member Rating: 1.8


Message 319 of 412 (871359)
02-01-2020 11:51 AM


The biggest primary pollr is coming out
The does spell check won't let me say it D E S Moines Register 3 day poll.

The poll shows trends due to its 3 day nature.

The poll had Ron Paul ahead in 2012, but it was due to his big double digit lead on the first night. Paul had been ahead for weeks. It seemed like a Paul Romney race.

But Santorum had the lead on the last night of the poll. The warmongering Santorum came from nowhere and CNN explained how this 3 day breakdown was a good predictor in past elections.

Santorum won and Paul fell to third though a county by county coded map shows Paul winning 90 percent of the land area due to his strength in rural areas. Predictable as his 2008 support was almost entirely from non evangelical rural areas and 2012 polls showed few exceptions.

CNN has a 1 hour show tonight devoted to the poll when it drops.


  
LamarkNewAge
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Posts: 1620
Joined: 12-22-2015
Member Rating: 1.8


(1)
Message 320 of 412 (871382)
02-01-2020 5:27 PM


Sanders does better as a Socialist than a Democrat
Vox had a great story a day ago. It shows a good polling operation which worded a Sanders verses Trump question 3 different ways.

Democrat Sanders beats Trump 45 to 43.

Drop Democrat from the description of Sanders but show that Trump labels him a socialist and Sanders wins 47 to 42.

Just mention Sanders or Trump and it is 47 to 41 Sanders


Replies to this message:
 Message 321 by RAZD, posted 02-02-2020 10:36 AM LamarkNewAge has responded

  
RAZD
Member
Posts: 20548
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
Member Rating: 3.0


Message 321 of 412 (871406)
02-02-2020 10:36 AM
Reply to: Message 320 by LamarkNewAge
02-01-2020 5:27 PM


Re: Sanders does better as a Socialist than a Democrat
Vox had a great story a day ago. It shows a good polling operation which worded a Sanders verses Trump question 3 different ways.

Link?

Skeptically I find VOX left of center and mildly trustworthy. They generally publish articles I like, which raises a flag, but fact checking generally bears them out.

Enjoy


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel•American•Zen•Deist
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This message is a reply to:
 Message 320 by LamarkNewAge, posted 02-01-2020 5:27 PM LamarkNewAge has responded

Replies to this message:
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 Message 323 by Theodoric, posted 02-02-2020 1:51 PM RAZD has acknowledged this reply

  
LamarkNewAge
Member
Posts: 1620
Joined: 12-22-2015
Member Rating: 1.8


Message 322 of 412 (871414)
02-02-2020 1:07 PM
Reply to: Message 321 by RAZD
02-02-2020 10:36 AM


Re: Sanders does better as a Socialist than a Democrat
Matthew Yglesias

Jan 31 article

Bernie Sanders beats Trump even when you remind people he is a socialist

That is about the title but I have phone trouble.

Biden recently said QUOTE I am a Democrat... He says he's... not registered as a Democrat CLOSE. QUOTE

The truth is that Sanders is more likely to beat Trump when the disgusting Democratic Party label has been fairly well rejected by Sanders and the other two labels of socialism and independent are looked at by voters.

Also

DNC officials are openly discussing bringing back SupetDelegates on the first ballot to stop Sanders. Don Fowler Jr and Donna Brazile admit that they lost the game to rig the 2020 primary in a manner similar to 2016 WHEN TOM PEREZ AND SANDERS Succeeded in changing the rules back in 2018 BUT it is still possible to go back to 2016 rules for 2020 and infact there are those in the DNC that propose doing just that. Fowler and Brazile admit that any return to 2016 SuperDelegate rules should better not take effect until 2024.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 321 by RAZD, posted 02-02-2020 10:36 AM RAZD has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 324 by RAZD, posted 02-03-2020 11:47 AM LamarkNewAge has responded

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 7043
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 323 of 412 (871419)
02-02-2020 1:51 PM
Reply to: Message 321 by RAZD
02-02-2020 10:36 AM


Re: Sanders does better as a Socialist than a Democrat
Here is the link to the article he is referring to.

Bernie Sanders leads Donald Trump in polls, even when you remind people he’s a socialist


Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 321 by RAZD, posted 02-02-2020 10:36 AM RAZD has acknowledged this reply

  
RAZD
Member
Posts: 20548
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
Member Rating: 3.0


(1)
Message 324 of 412 (871455)
02-03-2020 11:47 AM
Reply to: Message 322 by LamarkNewAge
02-02-2020 1:07 PM


Re: Sanders does better as a Socialist than a Democrat
Matthew Yglesias

Jan 31 article

Bernie Sanders beats Trump even when you remind people he is a socialist

That is about the title but I have phone trouble.

Bernie Sanders leads Donald Trump in polls, even when you remind people he’s a socialist

Also posted on a couple other sites (reddit, democratic underground)

The truth is that Sanders is more likely to beat Trump when the disgusting Democratic Party label has been fairly well rejected by Sanders and the other two labels of socialism and independent are looked at by voters.

Indeed, his strength is appealing to independent voters outside the dem party. He is also as a result more likely to bring along coattail candidates across the voting spectrum that are social democrats, etc rather than old school dems.

DNC officials are openly discussing bringing back SupetDelegates on the first ballot to stop Sanders. Don Fowler Jr and Donna Brazile admit that they lost the game to rig the 2020 primary in a manner similar to 2016 WHEN TOM PEREZ AND SANDERS Succeeded in changing the rules back in 2018 BUT it is still possible to go back to 2016 rules for 2020 and infact there are those in the DNC that propose doing just that. Fowler and Brazile admit that any return to 2016 SuperDelegate rules should better not take effect until 2024.

The DNC really knows how to lose an election.

Enjoy


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel•American•Zen•Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 322 by LamarkNewAge, posted 02-02-2020 1:07 PM LamarkNewAge has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 325 by LamarkNewAge, posted 02-04-2020 1:05 AM RAZD has acknowledged this reply

  
LamarkNewAge
Member
Posts: 1620
Joined: 12-22-2015
Member Rating: 1.8


Message 325 of 412 (871491)
02-04-2020 1:05 AM
Reply to: Message 324 by RAZD
02-03-2020 11:47 AM


Re: Sanders does better as a Socialist than a Democrat
Guess how many Democratic nominees have lost the national popular vote in the November general election for President of the United States of America since 1988.

1

Guess who.

John Kerry

Guess who is saying Sanders will be a disaster for Democrats chances in November of 2020.

Yup

Yep

Yessir

And in the last few days too

I really want to see what happens if Sanders wins the nomination just to see if the DNC and its favorite candidates ever should have been seen as even worthy of a sliver of credibility MUCH LESS THE TOTAL COMPLETE TRUST Democratic primary voters gave.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 324 by RAZD, posted 02-03-2020 11:47 AM RAZD has acknowledged this reply

  
LamarkNewAge
Member
Posts: 1620
Joined: 12-22-2015
Member Rating: 1.8


Message 326 of 412 (871492)
02-04-2020 1:32 AM


Sanders won 43 percent of non whites in Iowa
Biden and Buttigieg did the next best at 15 percent each.

Iowa was a 91 white caucus tonight so we are looking at Sanders getting about a 2.5 to 3 percent net over Buttigieg from minorities .


  
LamarkNewAge
Member
Posts: 1620
Joined: 12-22-2015
Member Rating: 1.8


Message 327 of 412 (871493)
02-04-2020 7:31 AM


See ABC news Feb 4 at 12 49 AM Gary Langer article
Ironically the title says Buttigieg has Broad based appeal. The title correctly says Biden not so much.

But Sanders beat both combined by over 3 to 2 among minority voters


  
Percy
Member
Posts: 19426
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.7


Message 328 of 412 (871494)
02-04-2020 9:51 AM


I'm in a real bind here. I plan to vote in next week's New Hampshire primary, and I don't know what to do. Since I'm registered as an independent my choices are:

  • Vote in the Republican primary.

    I would cast my vote for Bill Weld. This would be a protest vote to indicate that not all Republicans support Trump. Current polls put support for Trump among Republicans at 90%, so I think my protest vote would be both symbolic but almost meaningless.

  • Vote in the Democratic primary.

    I'm leaning much more in this direction, but there's no clear choice. The candidates I'd consider:

    • Joe Biden, because he's the most electable against Trump.
    • Elizabeth Warren, because she's most prepared to do the job.
    • Pete Buttigieg, because he has the most potential to grow into the job.
    • Bernie Sanders, because his sentiments are on the mark, and the reality of a Congress at least half controlled by Republicans will rein him in and allow only practical solutions to be implemented.
    • Amy Klobuchar, because I know nothing about her.

    I'm hindered in learning about these candidates because other than their statements of positions I will accept no information that they or their campaigns provide about themselves (e.g., their inflated biographies), and especially not what they say about the other candidates.

Any suggestions, information and opinions welcomed, especially when supported by facts.

--Percy


Replies to this message:
 Message 329 by jar, posted 02-04-2020 10:11 AM Percy has acknowledged this reply
 Message 330 by Theodoric, posted 02-04-2020 11:10 AM Percy has responded
 Message 331 by ringo, posted 02-04-2020 11:20 AM Percy has responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 32167
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.1


(2)
Message 329 of 412 (871495)
02-04-2020 10:11 AM
Reply to: Message 328 by Percy
02-04-2020 9:51 AM


I think the most important issue in this election is to take control of both houses of Congress. The President is really almost immaterial. The great harm is the erosion of the Judicial System and the erosion of environmental, economic and educational resources and it is Congress that has the greatest control in those areas.

Keep the Senators in Congress and work to add five more. There are thirty-five Senate seats that will be challenged in the coming election and that is where the greatest effort could best be spent.


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
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Theodoric
Member
Posts: 7043
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 330 of 412 (871498)
02-04-2020 11:10 AM
Reply to: Message 328 by Percy
02-04-2020 9:51 AM


My choices for Dem.
Warren
Sanders
I like your reasoning. I disagree that Biden is the most electable. Electability does not mean attracting Republicans. It means exciting the Dems and appealing to the disaffected voter.

Buttigieg is in reality quite right wing. The black and minority vote will stay home if he is the candidate. The only reason he is a Dem is that he is unacceptable to the GOP. If the GOP did not hate gays he would be a Republican.

Amy Klobuchar seemingly a terrible manager and also has supported many of Trumps horrible judge picks.
All that being said I will support the nominee.


Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 328 by Percy, posted 02-04-2020 9:51 AM Percy has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 332 by Chiroptera, posted 02-04-2020 12:15 PM Theodoric has not yet responded
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