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Author Topic:   The 2020 Democratic Presidential Nomination Campaign
Minnemooseus
Member
Posts: 3825
From: Duluth, Minnesota, U.S. (West end of Lake Superior)
Joined: 11-11-2001


Message 451 of 505 (872984)
03-07-2020 11:21 PM
Reply to: Message 442 by Minnemooseus
03-05-2020 3:44 AM


Re: A fantasy or a frump? - bump for the Bernie-bros
From the replied to message:

I think too many think that Sanders is some sort of messiah, who can do miracles. I just want a President who won't stand in the way of progressiveness.

Moose


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 Message 442 by Minnemooseus, posted 03-05-2020 3:44 AM Minnemooseus has acknowledged this reply

  
LamarkNewAge
Member
Posts: 1717
Joined: 12-22-2015


(1)
Message 452 of 505 (872996)
03-08-2020 12:56 PM


Tuesday states
One bit of good news is that there was another Washington State poll that had Sanders down by 1 point to Biden.

That means that wins in Arizona and Michigan would be able to give the big wins to Sanders.

Michigan's demographics must be looked at. Whites are 75 percent plus. But 5 percent are Sanders supporting Arab Americans. Asians are 3.4 percent. Hispanics are 5.2 percent. Native Americans are 0.7 percent. Two or more race folks are 2.5 percent.

African Americans are 14.1 and that would seem to give Biden a massive advantage. But Sanders actually held Hillary Clinton to a 64 to 32 advantage in Michigan 4 years ago so he might be able to keep Biden's advantage down as well. Jesse Jackson just endorsed Sanders and the 2 will hold a rally tonight.

Sanders is going to be AT BEST a little behind in delegates and total states won for a good while. Sanders winning Michigan will keep this campaign going until the debates can FINALLY introduce an actual issue focus into this pathetic primary. So far pathetic. It will be a sad day in America if this race ends after being 100 percent based on DNC and elite media scare tactics with substance free propaganda.

Edited by LamarkNewAge, : No reason given.


  
Chiroptera
Inactive Member


Message 453 of 505 (872997)
03-08-2020 1:31 PM
Reply to: Message 447 by Minnemooseus
03-06-2020 3:48 AM


Re: PZ Myers said it so well - Random thoughts about the course of this election
Myers' essay is pretty much what I've been trying to say. The Democratic Party is a broad coalition of different groups who can usually compromise with one another to formulate some common goals and then work together to achieve some of those goals. It's not a pretty process, and sometimes members of the coalition can have very different goals in mind which can lead to some dysfunction (and also some nakedly partisan power plays), but I've long felt that is pretty much what democracy is supposed to be.

Last Tuesday we saw that, as a matter of fact, Biden and the centrist still have a lot of support among many elements of the coalition. This is important if you believe that democracy means reaching a consensus position among many different elements.

What I'm hoping now that the nomination is between two representatives of distinct approaches is that Biden will be forced to move left on some issues - like Clinton had to in 2016 - in order to broaden his support to secure the nomination.

Some time ago I expressed my concerns whether Sanders has the ability to make the compromises necessary to achieve real policy goals. I'm hoping that Biden's strength will force Sanders to realize that he needs to show he can make the necessary compromises in order to appeal to a broad enough coalition to get the nomination.

I may support Sanders right to the end, but I'll say now that if he can't show that he's willing to work with the people he disagrees with, then he probably won't get the nomination, he may not be as electable in November as he should be, and he definitely will have shown he won't be a particularly effective leader.

Edited by Chiroptera, : Typo.


The first principle is that you must not fool yourself and you are the easiest person to fool. -- Richard Feynman

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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LamarkNewAge
Member
Posts: 1717
Joined: 12-22-2015


Message 454 of 505 (873000)
03-08-2020 2:09 PM
Reply to: Message 453 by Chiroptera
03-08-2020 1:31 PM


Re: PZ Myers said it so well - Random thoughts about the course of this election
Hillary Clinton supporters said she was so much better at working with Republicans and Sanders would not be able to work with Republicans.

I countered by saying that wars wars wars would indeed be amped up with the opposite sides joining together with leader Hillary. Sanders would find some Republican anti war partners like Rand Paul but we need to get a top down solution on the bloated militarily budget and the pervasive militarism.

On healthcare, Sanders voted for the Senate version of ObamaCare even though it lacked a public option. Sanders cast the deciding vote to get the 60 needed. Sanders was one of 2 independents who were joined to the 58 full Democratic members of the then 60 member caucus. The other was Joe Lieberman and he singlehandedly sunk the Senate attempt to get a public option Affordable Care Act bill passed. The Senate version only funded the Medicaid expansion to 138 percent of the poverty rate while the House version was 150 percent. Sanders compromised endlessly.

Sanders was the Senator that was responsible for the vital community health centers and he worked with elected officials in both bodies to put them in the AFA.

Sanders at the top of government ensures that every last compromise from Democrats FOR THE PEOPLE will be found.

Sanders alone and all alone AS PREDIDENT ensures the unique but necessary situation that facilitates the compromise.


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LamarkNewAge
Member
Posts: 1717
Joined: 12-22-2015


Message 455 of 505 (873205)
03-11-2020 11:57 AM


Biden could start talking issues. The furst 1 on 1 debate will be unteresting.
I have really been thinking lately and I don't think I want Biden to beat Trump and it has to do with the fact that we could have 16 years of Biden and his VP ruining the Earth's climate in an irreversible destruction.

It might be best to suffer 4 more years of Trump then in 2024 we can hope for the Democratic Party getting serious about the challenges that must be taken on.

I might support Biden if he shocks us all and picks a good VP running mate, but I fear it could be Amy Klobuchar or something almost as bad.

The only ray of sunshine is the possibility that Sanders really does get Biden to discuss issues in the debate but it could be too late. CNN has Biden at 800 delegates and Sanders at 660 so perhaps there is still time to save the looming disaster.


Replies to this message:
 Message 456 by NosyNed, posted 03-11-2020 12:44 PM LamarkNewAge has responded
 Message 458 by RAZD, posted 03-11-2020 1:46 PM LamarkNewAge has not yet responded
 Message 464 by Minnemooseus, posted 03-14-2020 3:13 AM LamarkNewAge has responded

  
NosyNed
Member
Posts: 8943
From: Canada
Joined: 04-04-2003
Member Rating: 6.6


Message 456 of 505 (873207)
03-11-2020 12:44 PM
Reply to: Message 455 by LamarkNewAge
03-11-2020 11:57 AM


What???
Just what is wrong with Biden that you would risk Trump for 4 more years? I'm not a fan particularly a fan of his but I don't know that he'll do anything utterly stupid.

You think that 4 more years of what Trump is doing on the climate issue is a good risk? Those are 4 years we can't afford.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 455 by LamarkNewAge, posted 03-11-2020 11:57 AM LamarkNewAge has responded

Replies to this message:
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jar
Member
Posts: 32741
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 457 of 505 (873213)
03-11-2020 1:44 PM
Reply to: Message 456 by NosyNed
03-11-2020 12:44 PM


What??? Four more years?
Trump has even commented on how the Chinese President did away with term limits and said that someday we might do the same.

quote:
“He’s now president for life, president for life. And he’s great,” Trump said, according to audio of excerpts of Trump’s remarks at a closed-door fundraiser in Florida aired by CNN. “And look, he was able to do that. I think it’s great. Maybe we’ll have to give that a shot someday,” Trump said to cheers and applause from supporters.

People read Mein Kampf before Hitler became Chancellor but never believed it was possible.

Wouldn't it be wise to actually believe folk mean what they say?


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

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RAZD
Member
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 458 of 505 (873214)
03-11-2020 1:46 PM
Reply to: Message 455 by LamarkNewAge
03-11-2020 11:57 AM


Re: Biden could start talking issues. The furst 1 on 1 debate will be unteresting.
I have really been thinking lately and I don't think I want Biden to beat Trump and it has to do with the fact that we could have 16 years of Biden and his VP ruining the Earth's climate in an irreversible destruction.

But another Supreme Court nomination could be disastrous for women's rights for decades.

Agreed, that 8 (not 16) years of Biden spells doom for climate action.

... CNN has Biden at 800 delegates and Sanders at 660 so perhaps there is still time to save the looming disaster.

"Clinton News Network" has a strong democrat party elite bias.

Democratic Delegate Count and Primary Election Results 2020 shows 857 for Biden and 705 for Bernie as of their latest update. They also show 45 delegates not yet assigned in California and Colorado. (one has to wonder why ... unless they are held back by DNC to make Biden look stronger)

I might support Biden if he shocks us all and picks a good VP running mate, but I fear it could be Amy Klobuchar or something almost as bad.

If he is truly pragmatic he should pick Warren to unite the party, otherwise he will see the same abandonment by Bernie independents that Hillary had. This could be why she has not endorsed anyone yet.

Enjoy


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel•American•Zen•Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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LamarkNewAge
Member
Posts: 1717
Joined: 12-22-2015


Message 459 of 505 (873215)
03-11-2020 1:47 PM
Reply to: Message 456 by NosyNed
03-11-2020 12:44 PM


Re: What???
Do you know that it is finally cheaper to shut down the average ON LINE coal fired power plant early TO REPLACE WITH WIND OR SOLAR powered operations. And wind is cheaper than NEW NATURAL GAS powered plants though it is more expensive than shutting down a still running gas plant.

This means that the 23.5 percent of our grids electricity that is coal based can be shut down and replaced by renewables.

Renewables are 76 percent of the new electricity generation as it is but it is painfully slow to wait for a coal plant to go off line. WE DONT HAVE THE TIME.

Biden has a 10 year plan that fiddles and farts around and which will not speed much of anything from the snails pace. The 10 year joke of a Green New Deal mutant Biden offers makes me feel like we are better off without him if it means we get serious in time for the 2024 election.


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Replies to this message:
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jar
Member
Posts: 32741
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 460 of 505 (873217)
03-11-2020 2:03 PM
Reply to: Message 459 by LamarkNewAge
03-11-2020 1:47 PM


Re: What???
LNA writes:

The 10 year joke of a Green New Deal mutant Biden offers makes me feel like we are better off without him if it means we get serious in time for the 2024 election.

And you seriously think there would be a 2024 election?


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

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RAZD
Member
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 461 of 505 (873241)
03-11-2020 5:17 PM
Reply to: Message 458 by RAZD
03-11-2020 1:46 PM


Update delegate counts
Democratic Delegate Count and Primary Election Results 2020

Biden 864
Sanders 710

Δ 154

With 27 California, 18 Colorado, 9 Utah and 55 Washington (total 109) delegates to be determined ... all major Bernie States wins.

Enjoy

Edited by RAZD, : .


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel•American•Zen•Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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LamarkNewAge
Member
Posts: 1717
Joined: 12-22-2015


Message 462 of 505 (873305)
03-13-2020 11:30 AM
Reply to: Message 461 by RAZD
03-11-2020 5:17 PM


Re: Update delegate counts
NBC has a 854 to 701 Biden lead with the other candidates around 125.

There are just under 4000 pledged delegates total, and 1991 is the magic majority of the race

There have been 24 state primaries and caucuses so far.

Notice how the media has been saying that Sanders should drop out and James Clyburn actually said the DNC should cancel the Sunday debate because the race is really over. He was very serious. The only chance for 1 on 1 debates should be snuffed and stomped out. Exciting for Democrats and democracy. This is the same James Clyburn that has never picked a candidate to endorse who ever went on to win a general election for the Presidency. The same James Clyburn who has stomped on the efforts to end gerrymandering when even Donna Edwards was making efforts to get rid of it all. She was in tears over blacks being marginalized by being crammed into a big 70 percent black district while the adjacent districts were diluted down to 25 percent. She felt a bunch of 35 percent black districts would benefit blacks and Democrats in numerous ways. Clyburn has been a disaster and he did not even endorse Obama in 2008. Obama only lost South Carolina 52 to 47 in 2008. It looked like a fairly liberal candidate for President came much closer than any other Democratic Party candidate since Carter won in 1976.

Clyburn has been a disaster for Democratic efforts to appeal to anybody but partisan Democratic voters.


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RAZD
Member
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 463 of 505 (873307)
03-13-2020 11:53 AM
Reply to: Message 462 by LamarkNewAge
03-13-2020 11:30 AM


Re: Update delegate counts
My source, Democratic Delegate Count and Primary Election Results 2020, latest update has

Biden 881
Sanders 725

With 22 California, 18 Colorado, 9 Utah, and 27 Washington delegates not assigned out of 78 total yet to be assigned, all states Sanders won or tied.

I just find it suspicious that none of the states Joe won have such a lag in assigning delegates and that there is no outcry about as there was about Iowa.

So far it looks like the 1 on 1 debate will go on, without an audience ... which means no biased crowd stuffing as in previous debates.

I expect medicare4all and covid-19 to take center stage.

Watch this space.

Enjoy

Edited by RAZD, : .


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel•American•Zen•Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 462 by LamarkNewAge, posted 03-13-2020 11:30 AM LamarkNewAge has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
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Minnemooseus
Member
Posts: 3825
From: Duluth, Minnesota, U.S. (West end of Lake Superior)
Joined: 11-11-2001


(3)
Message 464 of 505 (873320)
03-14-2020 3:13 AM
Reply to: Message 455 by LamarkNewAge
03-11-2020 11:57 AM


The Bernie movement as a religious cult
I have really been thinking lately and I don't think I want Biden to beat Trump and it has to do with the fact that we could have 16 years of Biden and his VP ruining the Earth's climate in an irreversible destruction.

It might be best to suffer 4 more years of Trump then in 2024 we can hope for the Democratic Party getting serious about the challenges that must be taken on.

I might support Biden if he shocks us all and picks a good VP running mate, but I fear it could be Amy Klobuchar or something almost as bad.

Minnemooseus (for the 2nd time) in message 451 writes:

I think too many think that Sanders is some sort of messiah, who can do miracles. I just want a President who won't stand in the way of progressiveness.

You make the Bernie movement seem like a religious cult.

I voted for Bernie in the Minnesota caucus/primary in 2016 and 2020, but you create an aura of irrationality around the Bern. I had preferred Warren as my first choice, and Klobuchar as my second choice.

VOTE BLUE, NO MATTER WHO, YOU POLITICO-RELIGIOUS DING-DONG.

Moose

Edited by Minnemooseus, : Change subtitle.

Edited by Minnemooseus, : Redundant "the" in subtitle.


Professor, geology, Whatsamatta U
Evolution - Changes in the environment, caused by the interactions of the components of the environment.

"Do not meddle in the affairs of cats, for they are subtle and will piss on your computer." - Bruce Graham

"The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness." - John Kenneth Galbraith

"Yesterday on Fox News, commentator Glenn Beck said that he believes President Obama is a racist. To be fair, every time you watch Glenn Beck, it does get a little easier to hate white people." - Conan O'Brien

"Politics is not the art of the possible. It consists in choosing between the disastrous and the unpalatable." - John Kenneth Galbraith

It says something about the qualities of our current president that the best argument anyone has made in his defense is that he didn't know what he was talking about. - Paul Krugman (as stolen from Chiroptera's signature)

"My fellow Americans, I'm pleased to tell you today that I've signed legislation that will outlaw Russia forever. We begin bombing in five minutes" - Ronald Reagan (1984)

"I know a little about a lot of things, and a lot about a few things, but I'm highly ignorant about everything." - Moose


This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
 Message 465 by LamarkNewAge, posted 03-15-2020 2:36 PM Minnemooseus has not yet responded

  
LamarkNewAge
Member
Posts: 1717
Joined: 12-22-2015


(1)
Message 465 of 505 (873410)
03-15-2020 2:36 PM
Reply to: Message 464 by Minnemooseus
03-14-2020 3:13 AM


Re: The Bernie movement as a religious cult
Are the over 60 people, who supported Biden 80 to 15 over Bernie, the followers or cult following types, or is it just the younger 80 to 15 Sanders supporters who are described as cult like .

I would have to notice that the media has sent a targeted message, to targetable folks, to unite against Sanders. It seems like the folks supporting Biden have more similarity to old time religious and nationalistic lock step follower types.

My problem with Biden is that he reminds me of so many Democratic nominees that say whatever they have to say to get elected with the only pseudo issue discussions coming from him being distortions that amount to little more than soundbites meant to trick the most ignorant voters into voting against his opponent.

It is not the way to earn a voter backed mandate for whatever policies he claims to want to get implemented.

I have seen dozens plus elections come and go. These wins and losses are a fleeting moment and every 2 and 4 years comes fast and leaves the previous election day on the ashheap. Biden looks like another flash in the pan and this whole 2020 election looks like a good chunk of wasted time for Americans. This is just another so so digression that will leave the country tired and disengaged and it will be a mindset that defines much of the national character. The stakes are always potentially high but it looks like the same sluggish atmosphere will be the climate and that is simply that.

Edited by LamarkNewAge, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
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