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Author Topic:   The 2020 Democratic Presidential Nominee Campaign
Tanypteryx
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Posts: 2223
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 4.5


Message 61 of 87 (854233)
06-05-2019 11:42 PM
Reply to: Message 60 by LamarkNewAge
06-05-2019 11:37 PM


Re: Just a bit to add on South Sioux City and solar.
So how many square miles of building roofs are there in Nebraska?

What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


This message is a reply to:
 Message 60 by LamarkNewAge, posted 06-05-2019 11:37 PM LamarkNewAge has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 62 by LamarkNewAge, posted 06-05-2019 11:58 PM Tanypteryx has not yet responded

    
LamarkNewAge
Member
Posts: 1435
Joined: 12-22-2015


Message 62 of 87 (854234)
06-05-2019 11:58 PM
Reply to: Message 61 by Tanypteryx
06-05-2019 11:42 PM


Re: Just a bit to add on South Sioux City and solar.
This was utility scale, not rooftop solar.

It was a 21 acre site.

Here is a darn good June 5,2019 article.

It is long, but covers potential cost issues

quote:

BUSINESS
California has too much solar power. That might be good for ratepayers
By SAMMY ROTH
JUN 05, 2019 | 4:00 AM

California has too much solar power. That might be good for ratepayers

The Beacon solar farm in California's Kern County generates electricity for the Los Angeles Department of Water and Power. (Mel Melcon / Los Angeles Times)

California set two renewable energy records last week: the most solar power ever flowing on the state’s main electric grid, and the most solar power ever taken offline because it wasn’t needed.

There’s no contradiction: As California utilities buy more and more solar power as part of the state’s quest to confront climate change, supply and demand are increasingly out of sync. The state’s fleet of solar farms and rooftop panels frequently generate more electricity than Californians use during the middle of the day — a phenomenon that has sent lawmakers and some climate advocates scrambling to find ways to save the extra sunlight rather than let it go to waste.

But for ratepayers, an oversupply of solar power might actually be a good thing.

New research published in the peer-reviewed journal Solar Energy suggests California should embrace the idea of building more solar panels than it can consistently use, rather than treating oversupply as a problem to be solved. It sounds counterintuitive, but intentionally overbuilding solar facilities — and accepting they’ll often need to be dialed down in the absence of sufficient demand — may be the best way to keep electricity prices low on a power grid dominated by renewable energy, the research found.

In a study published in March, New York-based researchers Richard Perez and Karl Rábago argue that solar power has gotten so inexpensive that overbuilding it will probably be the cheapest way to keep the lights on during cloudy or overcast days — cheaper than relying entirely on batteries. Solar power can meet high levels of daytime electricity demand without energy storage, the researchers say, as long as there are enough solar panels on the grid during times when none of them are producing at full capacity.

“It’s not like solar is going to be available all the time,” said Perez, a solar energy expert at the State University of New York at Albany. “At night you will need storage, and on cloudy days you will need storage. But you will need much less of it.”

California has set a target of 60% renewable energy on the power grid by 2030, as well as a longer-term goal of 100% climate-friendly energy, a broader definition that could include hydroelectricity or nuclear power. A dozen other states and U.S. territories have adopted or are considering similar 100% clean energy goals, and they’ll be watching California’s progress as they try to figure out how to make those goals a reality.

The Golden State’s success depends in part on achieving its goals without sending energy prices soaring. California already has some of the country’s highest electricity rates, although low levels of energy use mean monthly bills are relatively low.

Perez and Rábago coauthored their study with analysts at Clean Power Research, a company with offices in California and Washington state. The study built on an earlier Clean Power Research report, which showed that in Minnesota — a state not known for abundant sunlight — the cheapest way to run the power grid with solar panels, wind turbines and batteries involved building so many solar panels that their output would have to be “curtailed,” or reduced below what they’d otherwise be capable of producing, by around 30%.

Under a range of high-curtailment scenarios, the report found, electricity would be slightly cheaper than it is today in Minnesota — a conclusion that Perez and Rábago found to hold true for many power grids.

Models run by the California Public Utilities Commission, examining the state’s options for reducing planet-warming emissions while maintaining reliable and affordable electricity, have also found that a surplus of solar power makes sense.

“What the models said was dramatically overbuild solar, and either export it when you have excess production or curtailment,” said Edward Randolph, who leads the regulatory agency’s energy division. “Curtailment makes economic sense.”

The argument for overbuilding solar power isn’t new, nor is it especially controversial among researchers who study the logistics of transitioning from fossil fuels to cleaner energy sources. Utility regulators have always built extra power into their planning, requiring enough electric generating capacity on the grid to ensure there will almost always be sufficient power on hand to meet energy demand.

Traditionally, that reserve margin has come from fossil fuels. Overbuilding renewables is a similar concept.

Some experts, though, are skeptical about the sheer scale of overbuilding contemplated by Perez and Rábago.

Wade Schauer, a Sacramento-based researcher at the energy consulting firm Wood Mackenzie, said Perez and Rábago didn’t take into account the costly transmission lines that may be needed to accommodate an overbuild of solar, or the landowner opposition that has frustrated solar farm developers in California and elsewhere. The researchers also assumed energy storage costs will remain “laughably high,” Schauer said — an assumption that makes batteries look less attractive compared with overbuilding solar.

https://www.latimes.com/...gy-california-20190605-story.html


That was only half of the article.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 61 by Tanypteryx, posted 06-05-2019 11:42 PM Tanypteryx has not yet responded

    
Hyroglyphx
Member
Posts: 5655
From: Austin, TX
Joined: 05-03-2006


Message 63 of 87 (854342)
06-07-2019 11:42 AM


The candidates
Joe Biden: Creepy, Uncle Joe who loves to inappropriately touch women and little kids... the human gaffe machine that has an uncanny knack for saying the wrong thing at the wrong time. His age is certainly a question mark, but he does have a ton of political experience. He knows how Washington works... I'll let you decide if that's a liability or an asset. He'll have a deep electoral base though.

Tulsi Gabbard: I don't think she'll have the push to be a serious contender, but she is 1 of 2 Democrats that I would ever remotely consider electing. I like her military background and she's very eloquent. Ultimately I think she's a high rising meteor that will fizzle out. The crooked DNC will make sure she's a hit job if she comes anywhere close to the reigns of power.

Kamala Harris: She tries too hard to rebrand herself as a true liberal while having been a hard-nosed prosecutor in California. She is eloquent and has a veneer of presidential qualities, but to some Democrats she's way too conservative and to Republicans she's way too liberal (especially on guns). She's in a political no-man's land. But then again, Trump got elected so.... stranger things have happened.

Beto O'Rourke: Mr. Platitude; oh, but he's so Obama-esque! This guy has nothing substantive to say. When you get through all his double-speak the guy doesn't have a single definable plan for any of his pie-in-the-sky platitudes. He just knows what sounds liberal to liberals...

Bernie Sanders: He's got a lot of experience... and while I vehemently disagree with just about everything that comes out of his mouth, I sense that he is genuine whereas most politicians are, well, typical narcissistic politicians who will do anything and say anything if it ascends them to a role of power. His age is a factor, but he's got a very deep base. He's one of the only real contenders in the race.

Elizabeth Warren: Fake. Fake. Fake. She's cut from the same cloth as Hilary Clinton - a fake as fuck blowhard who is the antithesis of Sanders. There is nothing genuine about her, except her genuine desire for power. I have ZERO respect for her. She's a moron and a died-in-the-wool politician. But she will have a big backing from the behemoth that is the DNC. I would like to think that real liberals can see through the smokescreen just like they finally did when they saw the Clinton/DNC derail Bernie.

Andrew Yang: Probably the only Democratic candidate to get praise from FOX viewers... why? Because he has an actual plan that actually is measurable and based on rational inferences. He's the exact opposite of Beto (Mr. Platitudes). But his problem at this point in time is that he's really only known for his universal income schtick. He's a one-trick pony at this point. If he wants to be a serious contender, he is going to have to expand on his ideas. If he can follow suit he has the potential to bring a lot of Republicans over.

Corey Booker, de Blasio, Julian Castro, Buttigieg have some qualities that are appealing and some not so appealing.... they'll all likely fade away.

Howard Schultz, running as an Independent, has a lot of good ideas... he's a candidate who is liberal, but not too liberal, with some conservative ideas, but not too conservative... But he has no real big push or star power.


"Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine

Replies to this message:
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Taq
Member
Posts: 7882
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 4.1


Message 64 of 87 (854367)
06-07-2019 4:42 PM
Reply to: Message 63 by Hyroglyphx
06-07-2019 11:42 AM


Re: The candidates
Hyroglphyx writes:

Elizabeth Warren: Fake. Fake. Fake. She's cut from the same cloth as Hilary Clinton - a fake as fuck blowhard who is the antithesis of Sanders. There is nothing genuine about her, except her genuine desire for power. I have ZERO respect for her. She's a moron and a died-in-the-wool politician. But she will have a big backing from the behemoth that is the DNC. I would like to think that real liberals can see through the smokescreen just like they finally did when they saw the Clinton/DNC derail Bernie.

I am really curious what led you to this opinions. I am not trying to debate any points here, just curious about how other people perceive her.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 63 by Hyroglyphx, posted 06-07-2019 11:42 AM Hyroglyphx has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 65 by Hyroglyphx, posted 06-08-2019 9:33 AM Taq has not yet responded

  
Hyroglyphx
Member
Posts: 5655
From: Austin, TX
Joined: 05-03-2006


Message 65 of 87 (854399)
06-08-2019 9:33 AM
Reply to: Message 64 by Taq
06-07-2019 4:42 PM


Re: The candidates
I am really curious what led you to this opinions. I am not trying to debate any points here, just curious about how other people perceive her.

I can only speak for myself, but she strikes me as a total elitist who bemoans the injustices of the poor while being so wildly removed from it. Pelosi, Clinton and Warren come to mind as being disingenuous and hyper-partisan.


"Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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Theodoric
Member
Posts: 6264
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.5


Message 66 of 87 (854400)
06-08-2019 9:54 AM
Reply to: Message 65 by Hyroglyphx
06-08-2019 9:33 AM


Re: The candidates
But all you have are your feelings?

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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Percy
Member
Posts: 18482
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.8


(1)
Message 67 of 87 (854411)
06-08-2019 2:23 PM
Reply to: Message 66 by Theodoric
06-08-2019 9:54 AM


Re: The candidates
Theodoric writes:

But all you have are your feelings?

I was struck by that generally. There were good reasons for what was thought good, and emotionalism behind what was thought bad.

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 66 by Theodoric, posted 06-08-2019 9:54 AM Theodoric has not yet responded

    
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 2223
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 4.5


(5)
Message 68 of 87 (854419)
06-08-2019 3:30 PM
Reply to: Message 65 by Hyroglyphx
06-08-2019 9:33 AM


Re: The candidates
Pelosi, Clinton and Warren come to mind as being disingenuous and hyper-partisan.

And they're all women, but I have a hard time imagining any Democrat in leadership or candidate positions not being hyper-partisan, after dealing with Mitch McConnell and Congressional Republicans this past decade.

And they are each expert-level knowledgeable in their field, Congress and the law and effective leadership, world affairs, and banking and finance. You may not like their personalities or histories, but I don't think you can credibly deny their qualifications. I am always amazed that there are people who would intentionally seek jobs that consist of sitting in meetings, all day, every day.

Disingenuous is a good word. I would say it can be validly used to describe most politicians.

Can you name any Republicans that are not hyper-partisan considering Trump's 90+% approval from Republicans?


What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


This message is a reply to:
 Message 65 by Hyroglyphx, posted 06-08-2019 9:33 AM Hyroglyphx has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 69 by jar, posted 06-08-2019 4:50 PM Tanypteryx has acknowledged this reply
 Message 73 by Taq, posted 06-11-2019 6:18 PM Tanypteryx has responded

    
jar
Member
Posts: 30981
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 4.8


(1)
Message 69 of 87 (854430)
06-08-2019 4:50 PM
Reply to: Message 68 by Tanypteryx
06-08-2019 3:30 PM


Re: The candidates
Tanypteryx writes:

Can you name any Republicans that are not hyper-partisan considering Trump's 90+% approval from Republicans?

Maybe one living and one recently dead. Justin Amash has stated publicly that Trump has committed impeachable offenses. John McCain who was certainly not hyper-partisan and stood up where it counted in significant votes.


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 68 by Tanypteryx, posted 06-08-2019 3:30 PM Tanypteryx has acknowledged this reply

Replies to this message:
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LamarkNewAge
Member
Posts: 1435
Joined: 12-22-2015


Message 70 of 87 (854478)
06-08-2019 11:30 PM
Reply to: Message 69 by jar
06-08-2019 4:50 PM


Calling out bad racial views.
quote:

Maybe one living and one recently dead. Justin Amash has stated publicly that Trump has committed impeachable offenses. John McCain who was certainly not hyper-partisan and stood up where it counted in significant votes.

Amash was the first Ron Paul-clone to ever get elected (in 2010). A solidly anti-war, pro-immigration libertarian.

He called John McCain "racist" for calling a past Iranian President a "monkey".

McCain has a history of bashing gays and making racist comments about non Europeans (like Asians, Iranians, etc.). And he was a dangerous warmonger (and I mean really dangerous).

McCain was fairly pro-immigration and very pro trade, but that does not excuse his very real problem with racism.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 69 by jar, posted 06-08-2019 4:50 PM jar has responded

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anglagard
Member
Posts: 2189
From: Socorro, New Mexico USA
Joined: 03-18-2006


Message 71 of 87 (854482)
06-09-2019 1:12 AM
Reply to: Message 69 by jar
06-08-2019 4:50 PM


Re: The candidates
"The few exceptions prove the rule"

- Joe Biden (may be plagiarized).


Read not to contradict and confute, not to believe and take for granted, not to find talk and discourse, but to weigh and consider. - Francis Bacon

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 Message 69 by jar, posted 06-08-2019 4:50 PM jar has not yet responded

    
jar
Member
Posts: 30981
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 4.8


(2)
Message 72 of 87 (854502)
06-09-2019 9:36 AM
Reply to: Message 70 by LamarkNewAge
06-08-2019 11:30 PM


Re: Calling out bad racial views.
LOL

Read the question to which I was replying. Find racist, warmongering or derogatory statements in the question to which I was replying.

Sheesh!


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios My Website: My Website

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 Message 70 by LamarkNewAge, posted 06-08-2019 11:30 PM LamarkNewAge has not yet responded

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 7882
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 4.1


(2)
Message 73 of 87 (854690)
06-11-2019 6:18 PM
Reply to: Message 68 by Tanypteryx
06-08-2019 3:30 PM


Re: The candidates
Tanypteryx writes:

And they're all women, but I have a hard time imagining any Democrat in leadership or candidate positions not being hyper-partisan, after dealing with Mitch McConnell and Congressional Republicans this past decade.

That's what I think as well. When Republicans wouldn't even consider Obama's nomination for the Supreme Court they crossed a serious line. After that, they got rid of the fillibuster for nominees once they were in charge. In this atmosphere, just being normal is hyper-partisan in comparison.

For me, I don't like Warren's style, but I wouldn't call her fake. Out of the current field, Warren is really the only one I can point to and name real accomplishments she has made on the behalf of citizens, such as the Consumer Protection agency. Her positions on the accessibility of education is also something I strongly agree with. I just wish hearing her voice didn't make me cringe.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 68 by Tanypteryx, posted 06-08-2019 3:30 PM Tanypteryx has responded

Replies to this message:
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Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 2223
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 4.5


(1)
Message 74 of 87 (854697)
06-11-2019 7:06 PM
Reply to: Message 73 by Taq
06-11-2019 6:18 PM


Re: The candidates
I feel the same way about warren. She might hold her own with Trump, but right now I am hoping one of the younger people will emerge as likely winner against President Shit-for-Brains. That and dominating the House and Senate are as important in my mind as policy. Policy is important but if you don't have the power it means nothing.

What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


This message is a reply to:
 Message 73 by Taq, posted 06-11-2019 6:18 PM Taq has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 75 by RAZD, posted 06-12-2019 6:59 AM Tanypteryx has acknowledged this reply

    
RAZD
Member
Posts: 19869
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
Member Rating: 5.5


Message 75 of 87 (854731)
06-12-2019 6:59 AM
Reply to: Message 74 by Tanypteryx
06-11-2019 7:06 PM


The candidates, after Bernie
I feel the same way about warren. She might hold her own with Trump, but right now I am hoping one of the younger people will emerge as likely winner against President Shit-for-Brains. ...

For me, she is rising into second place behind Bernie. All the candidates are using issues Bernie raised in 2016, and except for Warren carrying some of her original issues, they are there because of Bernie.

... That and dominating the House and Senate are as important in my mind as policy. Policy is important but if you don't have the power it means nothing.

What you need is a candidate with coat-tails, and the only one so far that I can see is Bernie. You wouldn't have AOC and other progressives that won in 2018 without him and his 2016 campaign and continued effort to build our revolution (not me us). He brings in independents that are wary of the democratic party and their history of failure to provide for working people in their lifetimes.

Enjoy


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This message is a reply to:
 Message 74 by Tanypteryx, posted 06-11-2019 7:06 PM Tanypteryx has acknowledged this reply

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