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Author Topic:   The 2020 Democratic Presidential Nomination Campaign
LamarkNewAge
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Posts: 1458
Joined: 12-22-2015


(1)
Message 91 of 116 (856159)
06-28-2019 12:56 AM


Biden is really going to have to answer for his busing policy.
Tonight's debate was powerful.

I seemed to notice this issue (though I spent few words detailing why it was so important, and now I wish I said more) in my OP.

Here was how I started my OP:

quote:

Biden will be 78 by the time he would be sworn in as President.
Sanders 79.

What to say.

Biden should answer for his opposition to busing and school district policy which enabled poorer minority kids to attend schools with more wealthy white kids.



    
Chiroptera
Member
Posts: 6692
From: Oklahoma
Joined: 09-28-2003
Member Rating: 5.8


(4)
Message 92 of 116 (856277)
06-29-2019 9:37 AM


Warren vs Harris?
I would be far happier if the Democratic nomination turned out to be between Warren and Harris than between Sanders and Biden.

Am I the only one?


It says something about the qualities of our current president that the best argument anyone has made in his defense is that he didn’t know what he was talking about. -- Paul Krugman

Replies to this message:
 Message 93 by Theodoric, posted 06-29-2019 10:15 AM Chiroptera has acknowledged this reply

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 6393
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.8


(1)
Message 93 of 116 (856280)
06-29-2019 10:15 AM
Reply to: Message 92 by Chiroptera
06-29-2019 9:37 AM


Re: Warren vs Harris?
Very much agree. Either one will make a great candidate and a great President. Whichever does not become President needs to nominate the other as Attorney General. Right now my VP choice would be Julian Castro.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 92 by Chiroptera, posted 06-29-2019 9:37 AM Chiroptera has acknowledged this reply

Replies to this message:
 Message 94 by xongsmith, posted 06-30-2019 3:48 PM Theodoric has not yet responded

    
xongsmith
Member
Posts: 1887
From: massachusetts US
Joined: 01-01-2009
Member Rating: 6.6


(3)
Message 94 of 116 (856403)
06-30-2019 3:48 PM
Reply to: Message 93 by Theodoric
06-29-2019 10:15 AM


Re: Warren vs Harris?
Theodoric writes:

Whichever does not become President needs to nominate the other as Attorney General. Right now my VP choice would be Julian Castro.

We need to keep as many incumbent Senators in the Senate as we cAn. Julian Castro would be a good strategic ticket with either Warren or Harris. But the cabinet needs to stay away from raiding this supply of Senators.


- xongsmith, 5.7d

This message is a reply to:
 Message 93 by Theodoric, posted 06-29-2019 10:15 AM Theodoric has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 95 by Minnemooseus, posted 06-30-2019 11:57 PM xongsmith has not yet responded

    
Minnemooseus
Member
Posts: 3730
From: Duluth, Minnesota, U.S. (West end of Lake Superior)
Joined: 11-11-2001
Member Rating: 4.1


(1)
Message 95 of 116 (856457)
06-30-2019 11:57 PM
Reply to: Message 94 by xongsmith
06-30-2019 3:48 PM


I like the idea of a moderate Democrat President
We need to keep as many incumbent Senators in the Senate as we can.

I think this includes Elizabeth Warren. I like her positions, but (just as 4 years ago) I think she may be a greater force as a Senator. And as someone else dared point out, I also think that EW has a pretty annoying vocal tonality.

I like the idea of a progressive Congress (can the Senate be flipped???) powering the agenda, and a moderate Democrat President as the CEO. If the Congress can get the progressive bill(s)/agenda to the President, even a moderate Democrat President will sign-off on it.

Minnesota has our "favorite daughter", Amy Klobuchar, in the race. I think she has done a solid, albeit low key (aka overshadowed by Al Franken) job as Senator. And at this point, I think the 2 Minnesota Senate seats are pretty safe to be held by Democrats.

And I still think that "metoo" got used by the far right to unjustifiably crucify Al Franken. The one question I'd like to ask Al is "Why didn't you go for an ethics committee hearing?".

Moose

ps - I can't help but feel I have too many words above capitalized.

Added by edit - Something I found to be worth watching:

An Important Message From Samantha Bee to Democratic Presidential Candidates: Run for the Senate, Dammit!

Edited by Minnemooseus, : Change subtitle.

Edited by Minnemooseus, : Added by edit.


Professor, geology, Whatsamatta U
Evolution - Changes in the environment, caused by the interactions of the components of the environment.

"Do not meddle in the affairs of cats, for they are subtle and will piss on your computer." - Bruce Graham

"The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness." - John Kenneth Galbraith

"Yesterday on Fox News, commentator Glenn Beck said that he believes President Obama is a racist. To be fair, every time you watch Glenn Beck, it does get a little easier to hate white people." - Conan O'Brien

"Politics is not the art of the possible. It consists in choosing between the disastrous and the unpalatable." - John Kenneth Galbraith

It says something about the qualities of our current president that the best argument anyone has made in his defense is that he didn’t know what he was talking about. -- Paul Krugman (as stolen from Chiroptera's signature)

"I know a little about a lot of things, and a lot about a few things, but I'm highly ignorant about everything." - Moose


This message is a reply to:
 Message 94 by xongsmith, posted 06-30-2019 3:48 PM xongsmith has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 96 by AZPaul3, posted 07-01-2019 12:25 AM Minnemooseus has responded

    
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 4258
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 96 of 116 (856460)
07-01-2019 12:25 AM
Reply to: Message 95 by Minnemooseus
06-30-2019 11:57 PM


Re: I like the idea of a moderate Democrat President
Pocahontas is from Massachusetts and her replacement in the senate would probably not be a conservative republican. I'm ok taking that chance.

And as someone else dared point out, I also think that EW has a pretty annoying vocal tonality.

Why do we do that? Why do we give so much service to small personal stuff when the ideas are the only important aspect of this whole exercise?

I know, I know. Media, internet. Cult of personality instead of corpus of thought. This is the social landscape we created.


Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 95 by Minnemooseus, posted 06-30-2019 11:57 PM Minnemooseus has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 97 by Minnemooseus, posted 07-01-2019 2:03 AM AZPaul3 has acknowledged this reply

  
Minnemooseus
Member
Posts: 3730
From: Duluth, Minnesota, U.S. (West end of Lake Superior)
Joined: 11-11-2001
Member Rating: 4.1


Message 97 of 116 (856462)
07-01-2019 2:03 AM
Reply to: Message 96 by AZPaul3
07-01-2019 12:25 AM


Re: I like the idea of a moderate Democrat President
And as someone else dared point out, I also think that EW has a pretty annoying vocal tonality.

Why do we do that? Why do we give so much service to small personal stuff when the ideas are the only important aspect of this whole exercise?

I tracked down the "someone else" message:

Taq in message 73 writes:

I just wish hearing her voice didn't make me cringe.

Sorry, but I have to 100% agree with Taq. I'll vote for her, or whoever (whomever?) the "D" candidate is. But I'd rather not have to experience the "nails on a chalkboard" effect when I hear the President speak. Still, not as nauseating as hearing Trump speak.

Moose


This message is a reply to:
 Message 96 by AZPaul3, posted 07-01-2019 12:25 AM AZPaul3 has acknowledged this reply

Replies to this message:
 Message 98 by jar, posted 07-01-2019 7:48 AM Minnemooseus has not yet responded

    
jar
Member
Posts: 31062
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.7


(1)
Message 98 of 116 (856468)
07-01-2019 7:48 AM
Reply to: Message 97 by Minnemooseus
07-01-2019 2:03 AM


Re: I like the idea of a moderate Democrat President
Have you ever listened to any recording of General Patton speaking?

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 97 by Minnemooseus, posted 07-01-2019 2:03 AM Minnemooseus has not yet responded

  
Chiroptera
Member
Posts: 6692
From: Oklahoma
Joined: 09-28-2003
Member Rating: 5.8


(2)
Message 99 of 116 (857156)
07-06-2019 10:27 AM


Krugman on Establishment Liberal angst
Tuesday's column by Paul Krugman:

The Moochers of Middle America

Krugman mentions how Biden was pwned by Harris in the debates and how this increases the chance that a progressive candidate will get the Democratic nomination. And now the Establishment Liberals are wringing their hands, spouting the usual "conventional wisdom" about how only a "moderate" candidate can possibly beat Trump.

So it’s worth parsing those claims. In what sense are the Dems moving too far left? What I’m seeing are three fairly distinct claims. First, that the party is endangering its electoral prospects. Second, that the party is being fiscally or economically irresponsible. Third, that Democrats are unfairly proposing to redistribute income from those who create wealth to those who don’t.

So you should know that the first claim is probably wrong, the second is definitely wrong, and the third ignores the extent to which we already do a lot of redistribution in this country — with Republican voters some of the biggest beneficiaries.

As far as the first point is concerned, Krugman says what I've been saying: seeing how the "radical" Democrats' proposals are so popular, it should be easy to turn them into a winning campaign.

The second point, Krugman points out that unlike Trump's tax cuts, Democrats' spending proposals would do much to help working people, and so should provide a boost to the economy.

Finally, as far as the third point, Krugman talks about the so-called "moochers", many of whom live in conservative areas. One example is Kentucky:

Take the case of Kentucky. In 2017, the state received $40 billion more from the federal government than it paid in taxes. That’s about one-fifth of the state’s G.D.P.; if Kentucky were a country, we’d say that it was receiving foreign aid on an almost inconceivable scale.

So if you really believe that Americans with higher incomes shouldn’t pay for benefits provided to those with lower incomes, you should be calling on “donor” states like New Jersey and New York to cut off places like Kentucky and let their economies collapse. And if that’s what you mean, you should let Mitch McConnell’s constituents know about it.

Edited by Chiroptera, : Boy, my proof reading skills are awful!


It says something about the qualities of our current president that the best argument anyone has made in his defense is that he didn’t know what he was talking about. -- Paul Krugman

Replies to this message:
 Message 100 by Theodoric, posted 07-06-2019 10:33 AM Chiroptera has not yet responded

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 6393
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.8


(3)
Message 100 of 116 (857161)
07-06-2019 10:33 AM
Reply to: Message 99 by Chiroptera
07-06-2019 10:27 AM


Re: Krugman on Establishment Liberal angst
Screw the Democratic establishment. There is no more time for republican lite. The establishment is in the pockets of the wealthy and corporations. Time for a party of the people. All the people. Even the poor and the oppressed.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 99 by Chiroptera, posted 07-06-2019 10:27 AM Chiroptera has not yet responded

    
Percy
Member
Posts: 18584
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 3.0


Message 101 of 116 (857225)
07-06-2019 6:50 PM


Another Economic Factor for Voting Patterns
USA Today has ranked all the states from best to worst economically. To this I've added how the state voted in the 2016 presidential election. Blue states tend toward the top, red states toward the bottom. Also, in general red states receive more in federal handouts than they pay in taxes.

1Colorado
2Massachusetts
3Utah
4New Hampshire
5Washington
6Hawaii
7Oregon
8Maryland
9Virginia
10Minnesota
11Idaho
12Delaware
13Vermont
14Florida
15Connecticut
16California
17New Jersey
18Wisconsin
19Georgia
20Iowa
21Nevada
22Maine
23Arizona
24North Carolina
25Tennessee
26South Carolina
27Rhode Island
28Nebraska
29New York
30Indiana
31Kansas
32Texas
33Montana
34Michigan
35South Dakota
36Pennsylvania
37Illinois
38Missouri
39North Dakota
40Ohio
41Oklahoma
42Alabama
43Arkansas
44Kentucky
45Wyoming
46New Mexico
47Louisiana
48Mississippi
49Alaska
50West Virginia

--Percy

Edited by Percy, : Fix Maine, they split their delegates.


Replies to this message:
 Message 102 by anglagard, posted 07-08-2019 5:26 PM Percy has acknowledged this reply

    
anglagard
Member
Posts: 2199
From: Socorro, New Mexico USA
Joined: 03-18-2006
Member Rating: 6.2


Message 102 of 116 (857478)
07-08-2019 5:26 PM
Reply to: Message 101 by Percy
07-06-2019 6:50 PM


Re: Another Economic Factor for Voting Patterns
Yup, my favorite state is an outlier, but hey, soon as the daughter and I moved here, the whole place turned solid blue at the federal level, a feat no state outside of New England can boast -- and were in "flyover" country.

Please pardon my previous generalizations concerning West Texas, as there are good people thereabout, they are just vastly outnumbered. In my defense, the simple act of moving 360 miles away immediately ended an 8 year bout of clinical-grade depression, and ended the Nummular Dematitis I have been battling since the wife died. Sorry if I painted the source of my misery with too broad a brush.

Now to address the topic at hand:

Progressives

Warren - too intelligent for misogynists.
Sanders - too much moral integrity for Evangelicals.
Gabbard - too much love for Syrian dictators and Indian Nationalists
De Blasio - too much blotivating, don't you have a job already?

Maybes

Castro - for intelligent misogynists, should any exist. Still like the platform of this recent convert.
Gillabrand - decent but invisible. Not heard much about income inequality and climate change

Big Donor Whores More than Prepared to sell out the Poor and Middle Class

Harris - Comcast among top ten, prepare for continued abuse by monopolies.
Biden - proud supporter of the incarceration nation, credit card ripoffs, increasing student debt through bankruptcy laws, and the war on "drugs." provided it does not interfere with pharmaceutical company profits. Worse candidate than Hillary.
Booker - funded by Wall Street, nuff said.
Buttegeig - "All lives matter" - yeah right. At least he is somewhat able to take responsibility unlike all other "centrists" (lookin' at you Biden) Still a big donor whore who will screw over the 99%.

Nobodies

O'Rourke - discovering oneself should be accomplished before running for office.
Williamson - the reason I moved away from California at 22, Loveable but looney.
Hickenlooper - too stupid to know Colorado's prosperity is largely due to marijuana legalization. Also platform solely consists of bashing "socialism" whatever it means to his addled mind.
Delaney - see previous sentence, Charlie must have donated his eyes.
Ryan - another crazy lookin' white dude, not impressed.
Klobuchar - "One must conquer oneself before one can conquer the world" - ancient Hindu saying.
Inslee - glad someone is addressing climate change but I need someone who can address more than one issue.
Swallwell - yeah Biden is too old, is Sanders? Seems miles ahead of you on stage as he can speak about more than one topic.

Probably forgot the rest, which says something.

Last chance suckers, AOC turns 35 on Oct, 13, 2024.


Read not to contradict and confute, not to believe and take for granted, not to find talk and discourse, but to weigh and consider. - Francis Bacon

This message is a reply to:
 Message 101 by Percy, posted 07-06-2019 6:50 PM Percy has acknowledged this reply

Replies to this message:
 Message 103 by Chiroptera, posted 07-08-2019 5:31 PM anglagard has responded

    
Chiroptera
Member
Posts: 6692
From: Oklahoma
Joined: 09-28-2003
Member Rating: 5.8


(1)
Message 103 of 116 (857480)
07-08-2019 5:31 PM
Reply to: Message 102 by anglagard
07-08-2019 5:26 PM


Re: Another Economic Factor for Voting Patterns
Last chance suckers, AOC turns 35 on Oct, 13, 2024.

Youngest president in US history?


It says something about the qualities of our current president that the best argument anyone has made in his defense is that he didn’t know what he was talking about. -- Paul Krugman

This message is a reply to:
 Message 102 by anglagard, posted 07-08-2019 5:26 PM anglagard has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 104 by anglagard, posted 07-08-2019 6:08 PM Chiroptera has responded

  
anglagard
Member
Posts: 2199
From: Socorro, New Mexico USA
Joined: 03-18-2006
Member Rating: 6.2


Message 104 of 116 (857487)
07-08-2019 6:08 PM
Reply to: Message 103 by Chiroptera
07-08-2019 5:31 PM


Re: Another Economic Factor for Voting Patterns
Youngest by far, Teddy beat JFK by a few months, at 41.

Even if AOC sat out a second Warren or Sanders term as VP (an ideal scenario}, she would be 39 when she becomes President.

Poor bastards won't know what hit em'. Did you see the Cohen testimony?


Read not to contradict and confute, not to believe and take for granted, not to find talk and discourse, but to weigh and consider. - Francis Bacon

This message is a reply to:
 Message 103 by Chiroptera, posted 07-08-2019 5:31 PM Chiroptera has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 105 by Chiroptera, posted 07-08-2019 8:29 PM anglagard has not yet responded

    
Chiroptera
Member
Posts: 6692
From: Oklahoma
Joined: 09-28-2003
Member Rating: 5.8


Message 105 of 116 (857510)
07-08-2019 8:29 PM
Reply to: Message 104 by anglagard
07-08-2019 6:08 PM


Re: Another Economic Factor for Voting Patterns
Youngest by far, Teddy beat JFK by a few months, at 41.

Fun fact: Teddy was the youngest person (so far) to become President of the US, but JFK was the youngest person to win a Presidential election.


It says something about the qualities of our current president that the best argument anyone has made in his defense is that he didn’t know what he was talking about. -- Paul Krugman

This message is a reply to:
 Message 104 by anglagard, posted 07-08-2019 6:08 PM anglagard has not yet responded

  
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