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Author Topic:   Introducing Thugpreacha
Thugpreacha
Member
Posts: 12414
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 106 of 127 (852982)
05-21-2019 12:13 PM
Reply to: Message 102 by ringo
05-21-2019 12:01 PM


Re: Throwing Out The Baby(in the manger) With The Bathwater
ringo writes:

if there was such a plane, how would you know about it?

Good question.

1 Cor 2:6-16 writes:


However, we speak wisdom among those who are mature, yet not the wisdom of this age, nor of the rulers of this age, who are coming to nothing. 7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, the hidden wisdom which God ordained before the ages for our glory, 8 which none of the rulers of this age knew; for had they known, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.

9 But as it is written:

"Eye has not seen, nor ear heard,
Nor have entered into the heart of man
The things which God has prepared for those who love Him."

10 But God has revealed them to us through His Spirit. For the Spirit searches all things, yes, the deep things of God. 11 For what man knows the things of a man except the spirit of the man which is in him? Even so no one knows the things of God except the Spirit of God. 12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might know the things that have been freely given to us by God.

13 These things we also speak, not in words which man's wisdom teaches but which the Holy Spirit teaches, comparing spiritual things with spiritual. 14 But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. 15 But he who is spiritual judges all things, yet he himself is rightly judged by no one. 16 For "who has known the mind of the LORD that he may instruct Him?" But we have the mind of Christ.

Thus, the idea that we humans can in fact know "the truth" comes from the Bible itself. If we throw that away, the secular arguments have a clear advantage. Perhaps you can address why you think that the arguments in scripture carry little weight in this debate.

Edited by Phat, : No reason given.


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.
In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.
~Stile


This message is a reply to:
 Message 102 by ringo, posted 05-21-2019 12:01 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 109 by ringo, posted 05-21-2019 12:24 PM Thugpreacha has acknowledged this reply

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 15037
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 3.2


(2)
Message 107 of 127 (852983)
05-21-2019 12:18 PM
Reply to: Message 94 by Faith
05-21-2019 11:55 AM


Re: Critical thinking/ spiritual discernment.
quote:

Spiritual discernment is a guide to critical thinking, not a contradiction.

Assuming you have some special capability that lets you be magically right no matter where the evidence points is the opposite of critical thinking. And that is exactly what you are doing.

No wonder you get it wrong so often.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 94 by Faith, posted 05-21-2019 11:55 AM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 112 by Faith, posted 05-21-2019 1:03 PM PaulK has responded

    
ringo
Member
Posts: 16626
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 3.0


Message 108 of 127 (852984)
05-21-2019 12:21 PM
Reply to: Message 105 by Faith
05-21-2019 12:03 PM


Re: Critical thinking/ spiritual discernment.
Faith writes:

That may be so but that passage nevertheless is about sin and not about doctrine.


You should try reading it. The very next verse is:
quote:
Matthew 7:6 Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.

"Pearls before swine" has more to do with doctrine than sin.

Izquierdo.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 105 by Faith, posted 05-21-2019 12:03 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 113 by Faith, posted 05-21-2019 1:05 PM ringo has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 16626
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 3.0


Message 109 of 127 (852985)
05-21-2019 12:24 PM
Reply to: Message 106 by Thugpreacha
05-21-2019 12:13 PM


Re: Throwing Out The Baby(in the manger) With The Bathwater
Phat writes:

Thus, the idea that we humans can in fact know "the truth" comes from the Bible itself.


But how do you know that the Bible knows what it's talking about? You're using the Bible's words on spirituality to back up the Bible's concept of spirituality.

Phat writes:

Perhaps you can address why you think that the arguments in scripture carry little weight in this debate.


Because it's a circular argument.

Izquierdo.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 106 by Thugpreacha, posted 05-21-2019 12:13 PM Thugpreacha has acknowledged this reply

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 15037
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 110 of 127 (852986)
05-21-2019 12:26 PM
Reply to: Message 95 by Thugpreacha
05-21-2019 11:56 AM


Re: Throwing Out The Baby(in the manger) With The Bathwater
I hate arguing with videos. If you think that there are any good points in there, care to put them up for examination ?
This message is a reply to:
 Message 95 by Thugpreacha, posted 05-21-2019 11:56 AM Thugpreacha has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 116 by Thugpreacha, posted 05-21-2019 1:19 PM PaulK has not yet responded

    
ringo
Member
Posts: 16626
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 3.0


Message 111 of 127 (852987)
05-21-2019 12:40 PM
Reply to: Message 90 by Thugpreacha
05-21-2019 11:52 AM


Re: Ringo Rides Into Town...
Phat writes:

Help me with my Beam while we put your splinter on the back burner!



As verse 5 says, "Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye."

Priorities.


Izquierdo.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 90 by Thugpreacha, posted 05-21-2019 11:52 AM Thugpreacha has acknowledged this reply

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 31649
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 112 of 127 (852988)
05-21-2019 1:03 PM
Reply to: Message 107 by PaulK
05-21-2019 12:18 PM


Re: Critical thinking/ spiritual discernment.
I don't assume it, I know it from the evidence.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 107 by PaulK, posted 05-21-2019 12:18 PM PaulK has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 115 by PaulK, posted 05-21-2019 1:16 PM Faith has responded

    
Faith
Member
Posts: 31649
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 113 of 127 (852989)
05-21-2019 1:05 PM
Reply to: Message 108 by ringo
05-21-2019 12:21 PM


Re: Critical thinking/ spiritual discernment.
The Sermon on the Mount is a list of principles, and in that case one has succeeded the other and isn't to be taken as continuing it.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 108 by ringo, posted 05-21-2019 12:21 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 114 by ringo, posted 05-21-2019 1:15 PM Faith has not yet responded

    
ringo
Member
Posts: 16626
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 3.0


Message 114 of 127 (852990)
05-21-2019 1:15 PM
Reply to: Message 113 by Faith
05-21-2019 1:05 PM


Re: Critical thinking/ spiritual discernment.
Faith writes:

The Sermon on the Mount is a list of principles, and in that case one has succeeded the other and isn't to be taken as continuing it.


But there isn't an abrupt change from verse to verse. There's a theme.

Verses 1-2 are about judging, not sin specifically. Verses 3-5 are about discernment, which is necessary for good judgement. Verse 6 is about casting pearls (of wisdom, not sin) before swine. Verses 7-10 are about honestly giving what is asked for. Verse 11 is again about discerning how to give good gifts to your children. Verse 15 is about false prophets, who feed you your false doctrines. Then there's good fruits and so on.

You can't just cherry-pick your "meaning" out of the middle.


Izquierdo.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 113 by Faith, posted 05-21-2019 1:05 PM Faith has not yet responded

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 15037
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 115 of 127 (852991)
05-21-2019 1:16 PM
Reply to: Message 112 by Faith
05-21-2019 1:03 PM


Re: Critical thinking/ spiritual discernment.
quote:

I don't assume it, I know it from the evidence.

Really ? Because you haven’t mentioned any evidence. At all. Even when I asked. So what is this “evidence” ?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 112 by Faith, posted 05-21-2019 1:03 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 117 by Faith, posted 05-21-2019 1:19 PM PaulK has responded

    
Thugpreacha
Member
Posts: 12414
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 116 of 127 (852993)
05-21-2019 1:19 PM
Reply to: Message 110 by PaulK
05-21-2019 12:26 PM


Re: Throwing Out The Baby(in the manger) With The Bathwater
PaulK writes:

I hate arguing with videos. If you think that there are any good points in there, care to put them up for examination?

I'll get around to it later. I need to take a nap before work.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.
In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.
~Stile


This message is a reply to:
 Message 110 by PaulK, posted 05-21-2019 12:26 PM PaulK has not yet responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 31649
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 117 of 127 (852994)
05-21-2019 1:19 PM
Reply to: Message 115 by PaulK
05-21-2019 1:16 PM


Re: Critical thinking/ spiritual discernment.
I gave the evidence for having spiritual discernment as the change of heart from coldness toward God and the things of God to loving God and loving His word. I can add the fact that there really is a "peace that passes understanding" that comes over me when I think of biblical truths of many kinds, think of God Himself, of Jesus. That is evidence. Also using it because you can't use it unless you recognize that it's there, and that's evidence. Further evidence is recognizing the validity of the traditional understanding done by others who are also born again and have spiritual discernment, and despising the work of mere fleshly scholars. I'm sure there's more.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 115 by PaulK, posted 05-21-2019 1:16 PM PaulK has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 118 by Thugpreacha, posted 05-21-2019 1:25 PM Faith has responded
 Message 120 by PaulK, posted 05-21-2019 1:46 PM Faith has responded

    
Thugpreacha
Member
Posts: 12414
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 118 of 127 (852998)
05-21-2019 1:25 PM
Reply to: Message 117 by Faith
05-21-2019 1:19 PM


Re: Critical thinking/ spiritual discernment.
Faith writes:

Further evidence is recognizing the validity of the traditional understanding done by others who are also born again and have spiritual discernment and despising the work of mere fleshly scholars. I'm sure there's more.

Personally, I prefer saying that I minimize the work of secular scholars as less important or convincing based on the zeitgeist of the situation. I would hardly say that I despise such people. After all, they are lost, in my opinion. They know not what they do. Thus...despising them is not very Christian of me.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.
In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.
~Stile


This message is a reply to:
 Message 117 by Faith, posted 05-21-2019 1:19 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 119 by Faith, posted 05-21-2019 1:44 PM Thugpreacha has acknowledged this reply

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 31649
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 119 of 127 (853001)
05-21-2019 1:44 PM
Reply to: Message 118 by Thugpreacha
05-21-2019 1:25 PM


Re: Critical thinking/ spiritual discernment.
You misread. I said I despise their WORK.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 118 by Thugpreacha, posted 05-21-2019 1:25 PM Thugpreacha has acknowledged this reply

    
PaulK
Member
Posts: 15037
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 120 of 127 (853003)
05-21-2019 1:46 PM
Reply to: Message 117 by Faith
05-21-2019 1:19 PM


Re: Critical thinking/ spiritual discernment.
quote:

I gave the evidence for having spiritual discernment as the change of heart from coldness toward God and the things of God to loving God and loving His word.

Oh, you mean like twisting the Bible to justify your bigotry ?

quote:

I can add the fact that there really is a "peace that passes understanding" that comes over me when I think of biblical truths of many kinds, think of God Himself, of Jesus. That is evidence

It’s not evidence that you are right.

quote:

Also using it because you can't use it unless you recognize that it's there, and that's evidence.

It’s circular. If your claim to be right is based on your alleged “spiritual discernment” you can’t turn around and say it is evidence that you do have “spiritual discernment”. That’s only evidence of your irrationality.

quote:

Further evidence is recognizing the validity of the traditional understanding done by others who are also born again and have spiritual discernment, and despising the work of mere fleshly scholars

Only if they’re right. And I guess that goes into more circularity.

quote:

I'm sure there's more

Then you’d better start looking for it.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 117 by Faith, posted 05-21-2019 1:19 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 121 by Faith, posted 05-21-2019 1:54 PM PaulK has responded

    
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