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Author Topic:   Ted Bundy the serial killer of the 70s
Faith
Member
Posts: 31804
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 46 of 63 (853015)
05-21-2019 3:29 PM
Reply to: Message 45 by Taq
05-21-2019 3:16 PM


Re: The question about the dogs
"Noted it at the time" means it struck them as unusual at the time and later they remember being struck at the time with its unusualness. It's a pretty common experience. I can think of some events in my past, even back in my childhood, that I "noted at the time" for being a special kind of event, maybe a traumatic event. It's a common experience. Yes, now they are memories, but they stand out for having been "noted at the time."

But since so many here are such pedantic sticklers to no good purpose you have to have it written down AT the time or it simply doesn't count at all. That way you reduce it all to banal generalizations and eliminate any possibility that there really was something noteworthy about the way the dogs snarled at Bundy. You'll never know then, of course.

So be it. I'll be the only one who thinks there's something to it.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 45 by Taq, posted 05-21-2019 3:16 PM Taq has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 47 by Taq, posted 05-21-2019 3:40 PM Faith has responded

    
Taq
Member
Posts: 7921
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 3.8


Message 47 of 63 (853016)
05-21-2019 3:40 PM
Reply to: Message 46 by Faith
05-21-2019 3:29 PM


Re: The question about the dogs
Faith writes:

"Noted it at the time" means it struck them as unusual at the time and later they remember being struck at the time with its unusualness.

They remember being struck at the time, but that doesn't mean they actually were. Memories are a funny thing.

I can think of some events in my past, even back in my childhood, that I "noted at the time" for being a special kind of event, maybe a traumatic event. It's a common experience.

Have you heard of the Mandela effect?

quote:
False memories can sometimes be shared by multiple people.[32][33] In 2010, this was dubbed the "Mandela Effect" by self-described "paranormal consultant" Fiona Broome, in reference to a false memory she reported of the death of South African leader Nelson Mandela in the 1980s (who was at the time still alive), which she claimed was shared by "perhaps thousands" of other people.

Many people swear they remember Mandela dying in the 1980's, even remembering the funeral. People have false memories. It happens.

Edited by Taq, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 46 by Faith, posted 05-21-2019 3:29 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 48 by Faith, posted 05-21-2019 4:02 PM Taq has responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 31804
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 48 of 63 (853019)
05-21-2019 4:02 PM
Reply to: Message 47 by Taq
05-21-2019 3:40 PM


Re: The question about the dogs
The interesting thing is that *they* have false memories, but you never do.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 47 by Taq, posted 05-21-2019 3:40 PM Taq has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 49 by Taq, posted 05-21-2019 4:10 PM Faith has responded

    
Taq
Member
Posts: 7921
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 3.8


(2)
Message 49 of 63 (853021)
05-21-2019 4:10 PM
Reply to: Message 48 by Faith
05-21-2019 4:02 PM


Re: The question about the dogs
Faith writes:

The interesting thing is that *they* have false memories, but you never do.

I have had many false memories. That's why I look for objective evidence instead of relying on memory.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 48 by Faith, posted 05-21-2019 4:02 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 50 by Faith, posted 05-21-2019 8:30 PM Taq has responded
 Message 51 by Pressie, posted 05-22-2019 6:12 AM Taq has not yet responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 31804
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 50 of 63 (853037)
05-21-2019 8:30 PM
Reply to: Message 49 by Taq
05-21-2019 4:10 PM


Re: The question about the dogs
One of my memories is corroborated by my brother. The other was just a personal experience, no way I know of to confirm it. When I was about nine I had this strong feeling there was going to be an earthquake. I don't know why but I connected it to a ring around the moon even though I knew that was a sign of a coming storm. I think I may have mentioned it to someone but maybe I didn't. There was a big earthquake that night. No way to prove it, I just remember it as if it happened and maybe it did.

But remember there were THREE separate people who had THREE separate impressions of dogs behaving in an UNUSUALLY hostile way toward Ted Bundy when they didn't treat others that way. As I said, I'm still accepting these accounts as likely true.

Also I would think that it would be more likely to misremember a major public event like Mandela's funeral, just because such major public events occur from time to time anyway and create images in our minds, than it would be for three people to misremember personal experience of dogs being hostile to Bundy.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 49 by Taq, posted 05-21-2019 4:10 PM Taq has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 52 by Taq, posted 05-22-2019 11:09 AM Faith has responded

    
Pressie
Member
Posts: 2041
From: Pretoria, SA
Joined: 06-18-2010
Member Rating: 2.1


Message 51 of 63 (853055)
05-22-2019 6:12 AM
Reply to: Message 49 by Taq
05-21-2019 4:10 PM


Re: The question about the dogs
Taq writes:

I have had many false memories. That's why I look for objective evidence instead of relying on memory.

Yip. That's why empirical, verifiable evidence beat memories everytime.

That's also why Faith tends to value anecdotes. Faith hasn't been able to accept reality.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 49 by Taq, posted 05-21-2019 4:10 PM Taq has not yet responded

    
Taq
Member
Posts: 7921
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 3.8


Message 52 of 63 (853093)
05-22-2019 11:09 AM
Reply to: Message 50 by Faith
05-21-2019 8:30 PM


Re: The question about the dogs
Faith writes:

But remember there were THREE separate people who had THREE separate impressions of dogs behaving in an UNUSUALLY hostile way toward Ted Bundy when they didn't treat others that way. As I said, I'm still accepting these accounts as likely true.

Thousands,perhaps millions, of people thought Mandela died in the 1980's, even remembering his funeral. It wasn't true.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 50 by Faith, posted 05-21-2019 8:30 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 53 by Faith, posted 05-22-2019 11:11 AM Taq has not yet responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 31804
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 53 of 63 (853094)
05-22-2019 11:11 AM
Reply to: Message 52 by Taq
05-22-2019 11:09 AM


Re: The question about the dogs
Again that's a huge public thing and I'd have to guess there were lots of factors that contributed to such a widespread belief, I can't compare it with personal memories myself.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 52 by Taq, posted 05-22-2019 11:09 AM Taq has not yet responded

    
Faith
Member
Posts: 31804
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 54 of 63 (853225)
05-23-2019 5:02 PM


follow-up: unsolved cases, dog bite, spooked cat, felt evl presence, inxplcble terror
Ann Rule thought she had come to the end of her book but Bundy kept on making news and besides that she found herself doing further research into old unsolved murders of young women that preceded those known to have been committed by Bundy. Some of the murders had very striking similarities to the M.O. of those he was executed for, but she had no way to be sure. Nevertheless she reports them as possibilities in her quest to figure him out.

She also does some research into his travels during those earlier years but also can't completely pin down that information. It is known he was in Burlington Vermont near the time when a young woman was murdered there, a girl who looked very much **** that first girlfriend who seems to have been the model for his known murders, but again there's no way to prove it. The house for unwed mothers where his mother gave birth to him was right next door to where that girl *****. It remains an unsolved cold case.

Ann Rule also found a police report from that general time period in that same general area, about someone named "Bundy" being bitten by a dog. Of course you know I find that piece of information very interesting.

After her book was published, Rule also received many phone calls and letters from all over the country and the world, mostly from women who believe they had encountered Bundy and escaped, and others who just wanted to talk to her about him.

One who called her was one of the sorority girls who ***** in the house where he'd murdered two and **** two maimed, who wanted to tell her what she remembered of that experience, which I also find interesting because of my demon theory. She said there had been nobody in the house for a few hours that afternoon and when they started returning they noticed that the housemother's cat was acting "spooked," running around with its hair standing on end and then bolting out of the house when the door was open, not to return for a couple of weeks. Then she reported that some of the girls had experienced a sense of something **** in the house that night, and that a couple of them started to get something in the middle of the night but experienced such a sense of extreme terror for no reason they could identify that they returned to their rooms and locked the door. Which probably saved them.

I've heard stories about that sort of experience from Christians and remember one reported in a book about a woman in Pakistan who converted to Christ and felt an **** presence in her garden just before she converted. That is similr to what a friend of mine told me, that about the time she converted she felt an **** presence in her house, but after she converted she no longer felt it. Of course I believe that kind of experience reflects the presence of a demon, perhaps one in the process of leaving because of the presence of Christ.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


    
Faith
Member
Posts: 31804
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 55 of 63 (853932)
06-02-2019 4:46 PM


Beyond Bundy: More Serial Killers
The Bundy story was starting to get to me, got knots in my stomach thinking about it, started worrying about everybody I know. There are still Ted Bundys out there. Just heard an estimate that there are some twenty-five to thirty-five serial killers out there right now, based on investigative models. They don't all go for young women, some kill children, some target the elderly. They do tend to go for the most vulnerable though, just because they are easiest, even if they don't fit their fantasy targets.

I got that information off the radio. I was settling down for the night and reached over and switched it on just to see if there was anything worth listening to. There was this discussion of serial killers going on. This was an interview with the author of a book titled "The Killer Across the Table," which was said to be the inspiration for the Netflix series "Mindhunter." So of course I'm hooked again despite the heebie-jeebies I'm getting thinking about Bundy and others llke him who are roaming around undetected even now.

So I got the book, the kindle version I can read on my PC. More heebie-jeebies coming up I suppose.

The writer dropped a couple of bits of information on the radio program: a great many serial killers were adopted. ALL serial killers have a history of abusing animals. Perhaps these things will be discussed in his book.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


Replies to this message:
 Message 56 by xongsmith, posted 06-02-2019 5:28 PM Faith has responded

    
xongsmith
Member
Posts: 1884
From: massachusetts US
Joined: 01-01-2009
Member Rating: 4.4


(1)
Message 56 of 63 (853934)
06-02-2019 5:28 PM
Reply to: Message 55 by Faith
06-02-2019 4:46 PM


Re: Beyond Bundy: More Serial Killers
Faith writes:

ALL serial killers have a history of abusing animals.

Even if there is no corroborating evidence to support this claim, it makes sense to me. The dogs Bundy confronted could have sensed that in him. No demon needed to explain that.

Trust your dog!


- xongsmith, 5.7d

This message is a reply to:
 Message 55 by Faith, posted 06-02-2019 4:46 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 57 by Faith, posted 06-02-2019 6:57 PM xongsmith has not yet responded

    
Faith
Member
Posts: 31804
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 57 of 63 (853937)
06-02-2019 6:57 PM
Reply to: Message 56 by xongsmith
06-02-2019 5:28 PM


Re: Beyond Bundy: More Serial Killers
Even if there is no corroborating evidence to support this claim, it makes sense to me. The dogs Bundy confronted could have sensed that in him. No demon needed to explain that.

I'm sure this statistic comes right out of the FBI files as far as evidence goes. And it makes sense to me too.

But I still have a problem seeing how the dogs that snarled at Bundy would have sensed such a thing. He didn't "confront" them at all. He was bending over Ann Rule's desk to show her something when her dog snarled at him, not doing anything threatening to her or to the dog. One of the other dogs just came to the door with its owner, a girl Bundy no doubt wanted to make one of his victims, but he was being very polite about some made-up story he was using to get her to let him in. Fortunately she didn't though she wasn't afraid of him, just wasn't interested in his story. Her little dog was beside itself barking and snarling the whole time she had the door open. The third case was when Bundy and his girlfriend visited the kennel to see about getting a dog for themselves and a dog the girlfriend llked was perfectly friendly to her but crouched and growled at Bundy when he came near.

I don't see how a dog in such circumstances would just "know" this guy who was acting normal and unthreatening was an abuser of animals. What "vibes" would he have been giving off? What sense would they be using to detect it?

It's because I don't see anything in Bundy's behavior to set off the dogs that I went to the demon theory. And then the account of how the housemother's cat had its hair on end when the sorority girls came back to the house after it had been empty for a couple hours suggests that Bundy was there in hiding and either did something to spook the cat or the cat, again, just picked up evvl vibes as it were. And this latter explanation seems to fit the fact I posted on, that later that evening some of the girls felt "an evvl presence" in the house, and when two of them, separately, started to go downstairs to get something during the night they felt such a sense of terror or dread just being out in the hall that they couldn't finish their errand, went back to their rooms and locked the door.

Do you think a human being with murderous intentions could give off such a vibe that a cat and the girls could feel it though they didn't even see him?

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


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 Message 56 by xongsmith, posted 06-02-2019 5:28 PM xongsmith has not yet responded

    
Faith
Member
Posts: 31804
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 58 of 63 (853955)
06-03-2019 7:52 AM


the demon explanation
I know getting anyone here even to consider the explanation of Bundy's having a demon is unlikely to impossible, but I really see no other explanation, given the situations as I have described them: dogs that didn't know him snarling viciously at him although he really was doing nothing threatening, a cat with its hair on end bolting outside and not coming back for a couple of weeks, when Bundy was hidden somewhere in the house; sorority girls feeling an evvl presence in the house and then experiencing a dread or terror when they started to leave their rooms later, although they didn't see Bundy.

These things suggest to me something that can't be explained by ordinary phenomena, such as ordinary dog senses, or cat senses, or human senses in relation to a mere human being just standing in the shadows and otherwise doing nothing threatening, no matter how murderous his feelings.

Is there anyone here willing to consider this a possibility based on the facts as I've presented them? Or do you think he could have emanated something merely human that they were picking up?

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


Replies to this message:
 Message 59 by Thugpreacha, posted 06-04-2019 11:15 AM Faith has responded

    
Thugpreacha
Member
Posts: 12441
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 59 of 63 (854036)
06-04-2019 11:15 AM
Reply to: Message 58 by Faith
06-03-2019 7:52 AM


Re: the demon explanation
I accept and agree with your explanation as plausible. I've seen the supernatural. I know that it is real. And I might add that Bundy knew he was oppressed/possessed and warned people addicted to pornography that they too would get caught up in evil if they didn't recognize their addictions/sins.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.
In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.
~Stile


This message is a reply to:
 Message 58 by Faith, posted 06-03-2019 7:52 AM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 60 by Faith, posted 06-08-2019 11:03 PM Thugpreacha has not yet responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 31804
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 60 of 63 (854473)
06-08-2019 11:03 PM
Reply to: Message 59 by Thugpreacha
06-04-2019 11:15 AM


Re: the demon explanation
I accept and agree with your explanation as plausible. I've seen the supernatural. I know that it is real.

I think the evidence points to something supernatural, but nobody here except you, who already believes in the supernatural, is going to consider that a real possibility. But there is really nothing merely human that could explain the phenomena I listed. I don't think anyone feels "something evll" in the air as it were, from a mere human being, but if someone wanted to argue for that I'd be interested in the evidence.

And I might add that Bundy knew he was oppressed/possessed and warned people addicted to pornography that they too would get caught up in **** if they didn't recognize their addictions/sins.

Those who have discussed that in the material I've seen don't take it seriously, but there may be something to it. Pornography no doubt has demons pushing it, but I'd expect Bundy's demon to be a murdering demon, a demon of rage. The rage he took out on his victims was astonishing.

I never did run across anything further on the subject of his eyes "turning black" when he thought of something connected to his murderous compulsion. I know demons are said sometimes to look through a person's eyes, but nothing was clearly enough said to suggest that in his case. Some of his potential victims did say his eyes were so scary they knew not to get any closer, and were able to run away.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


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 Message 59 by Thugpreacha, posted 06-04-2019 11:15 AM Thugpreacha has not yet responded

    
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