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Author Topic:   Some states protect women's rights
ringo
Member
Posts: 18329
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 1.8


(3)
Message 9 of 286 (853107)
05-22-2019 12:22 PM
Reply to: Message 8 by Faith
05-22-2019 12:05 PM


Faith writes:

Why does someone have an abortion anyway?


Often it's because she knows she can't give the potential child the quality of life that it deserves - and our society isn't going to give her much help. The people who claim to be "pro-life" are too busy persecuting women to give a damn about the lives they are "saving".

Izquierdo.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 8 by Faith, posted 05-22-2019 12:05 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 10 by Faith, posted 05-22-2019 1:41 PM ringo has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 18329
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 1.8


(2)
Message 11 of 286 (853118)
05-22-2019 1:56 PM
Reply to: Message 10 by Faith
05-22-2019 1:41 PM


Faith writes:

The concern that she's not able to care for a child isn't much of a justification for killing it.


It's not a child. Read your Bible. But even if it was, of course its future welfare should be a concern.

Faith writes:

With all the services available these days, both public and private, it's not TOO hard to get help...


And yet it often is.

Faith writes:

... but if all else fails isn't adoption preferable to killing it?


It isn't your decision to make for everybody else.

Faith writes:

Pro-life people run all kinds of services all over the country to help pregnant women so your snark is unwarranted.


And yet it isn't enough. So your opinion that women have abortions for fun definitely needs to be snarked at.

Izquierdo.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 10 by Faith, posted 05-22-2019 1:41 PM Faith has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 22 by JonF, posted 05-22-2019 4:49 PM ringo has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 18329
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 1.8


Message 14 of 286 (853123)
05-22-2019 2:22 PM
Reply to: Message 13 by Faith
05-22-2019 2:17 PM


Faith writes:

Wherever services are inadequate I recommend that prolifers beef them up.


There's room for a lot of beef. But that doesn't seem to be their priority, or yours. One thing you could do that is constructive and cheap is to stop calling them murderers.

Izquierdo.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 13 by Faith, posted 05-22-2019 2:17 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 16 by Faith, posted 05-22-2019 2:44 PM ringo has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 18329
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 1.8


Message 18 of 286 (853129)
05-22-2019 3:11 PM
Reply to: Message 16 by Faith
05-22-2019 2:44 PM


Faith writes:

I don't call them murderers, in fact you criticize me for not calling them murderers or not calling abortion murder.


You have a short memory. You have called them murderers, which is why I criticized you for not wanting to treat them as murderers.

Faith writes:

However, I think it is crucially important for women to know that abortion is killing an unborn child...


There you go again. If it was killing a "child", it would be murder.

Faith writes:

If she thinks it's not really a child, not a living thing even, abortion won't bother her.


Abortion bothers everybody. It's making the best of a bad situation.

Faith writes:

I think we all know it's a baby in spite of ourselves anyway....


You're being dishonest with yourself. If you really thought it was a "baby", you wouldn't be so loath to call abortion murder.

Izquierdo.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 16 by Faith, posted 05-22-2019 2:44 PM Faith has not yet responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 18329
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 1.8


Message 20 of 286 (853134)
05-22-2019 3:51 PM
Reply to: Message 17 by Faith
05-22-2019 2:46 PM


Faith writes:

We don't need the government for any of this.


If it isn't getting done, clearly we need somebody to do it.

Izquierdo.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 17 by Faith, posted 05-22-2019 2:46 PM Faith has not yet responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 18329
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 1.8


(1)
Message 23 of 286 (853141)
05-22-2019 4:55 PM
Reply to: Message 22 by JonF
05-22-2019 4:49 PM


JonF writes:

Those services constantly lie to pregnant women.


Well, that would explain why there aren't enough resources to provide actual services.

Izquierdo.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 22 by JonF, posted 05-22-2019 4:49 PM JonF has not yet responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 18329
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 1.8


Message 31 of 286 (853297)
05-25-2019 11:41 AM
Reply to: Message 28 by Sarah Bellum
05-25-2019 9:15 AM


Re: Is the fetus a human being? Is it a living creature that we allow you to kill?
Sarah Bellum writes:

Here's another question. Suppose you were introduced to Sandy, an adult human being who suffered from a terminal illness that could be cured by hooking Sandy's circulatory system up to a healthy individual's circulatory system for nine months....


The real question is, Who gets to decide? Would you force the healthy person to keep Sandy alive?

Sarah Bellum writes:

For some reason, however, they leave the switch to the machine in your reach. Do you have the right to flip the switch to OFF?


Even if the healthy person originally consented, does he have the right to change his mind?

Izquierdo.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 28 by Sarah Bellum, posted 05-25-2019 9:15 AM Sarah Bellum has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 34 by Sarah Bellum, posted 05-26-2019 6:28 PM ringo has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 18329
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 1.8


Message 41 of 286 (853419)
05-27-2019 12:00 PM
Reply to: Message 34 by Sarah Bellum
05-26-2019 6:28 PM


Re: Is the fetus a human being? Is it a living creature that we allow you to kill?
Sarah Bellum writes:

The question of forcing someone to keep Sandy alive is a much different question. I might, for example, think it a good thing that someone donate a kidney to someone else that they might live, but that is not the same as thinking we ought to force that person to undergo surgery to extract their kidney against their will.


I can't figure out what you're saying here. Your second sentence seems to agree with me - i.e. we shouldn't force anybody to keep Sandy alive. But your first sentence says there's a difference when it comes to abortion. Why? Why should we force a woman to keep a fetus alive? You seem to be giving the fetus more rights than Sandy.

Izquierdo.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 34 by Sarah Bellum, posted 05-26-2019 6:28 PM Sarah Bellum has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 67 by Sarah Bellum, posted 05-28-2019 6:25 PM ringo has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 18329
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 1.8


Message 58 of 286 (853515)
05-28-2019 11:50 AM
Reply to: Message 56 by Faith
05-28-2019 3:53 AM


Re: No obligation to let others use your body.
Faith writes:

... I'd have to think and pray it through a thousand times before I could decide, and I could never criticize anyone who chose that solution.


And yet you support the idea of the government telling you you can't do it.

Izquierdo.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 56 by Faith, posted 05-28-2019 3:53 AM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 59 by Faith, posted 05-28-2019 3:33 PM ringo has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 18329
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 1.8


Message 61 of 286 (853538)
05-28-2019 3:43 PM
Reply to: Message 59 by Faith
05-28-2019 3:33 PM


Re: No obligation to let others use your body.
Faith writes:

Actually I'd rather persuade people that they don't really want to kill their child than get the government involved in any of it.


So you agree that governments shouldn't try to ban abortion. Good for you.

Edited by ringo, : Fixed quote.


Izquierdo.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 59 by Faith, posted 05-28-2019 3:33 PM Faith has not yet responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 18329
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 1.8


Message 81 of 286 (853598)
05-29-2019 12:02 PM
Reply to: Message 77 by Faith
05-29-2019 11:31 AM


Re: No obligation to let others use your body.
Faith writes:

Yes, you absurdly and immorally put personal liberty above the llfe of another human being.


It's not another human being. Even you have agreed that abortion is not murder, haven't you?

Izquierdo.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 77 by Faith, posted 05-29-2019 11:31 AM Faith has not yet responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 18329
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 1.8


Message 89 of 286 (853629)
05-29-2019 3:17 PM
Reply to: Message 67 by Sarah Bellum
05-28-2019 6:25 PM


Re: Is the fetus a human being? Is it a living creature that we allow you to kill?
Sarah Bellum writes:

It's the difference between forcing a person to undertake a medical procedure for the purpose of keeping Sandy (the adult human who will die if you don't undergo the procedure) and requiring a person to refrain from undertaking a medical procedure that would result in the death of a fetus.


Either way, it's dictating healthcare to the person.

Izquierdo.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 67 by Sarah Bellum, posted 05-28-2019 6:25 PM Sarah Bellum has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 214 by Sarah Bellum, posted 06-30-2019 3:53 PM ringo has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 18329
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 1.8


Message 91 of 286 (853633)
05-29-2019 4:49 PM
Reply to: Message 90 by Faith
05-29-2019 4:38 PM


Re: No obligation to let others use your body.
Faith writes:

(I won't even venture to comment on the reversals and duplicity that attend the other discussions going on here today, but this is one day when everything here is so sickeningly upside down, with lles, llbel, illogic, partisan slime throwing called reasoning and worse it's hard to believe.)


That's a pretty left-handed way of "not commenting".

Izquierdo.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 90 by Faith, posted 05-29-2019 4:38 PM Faith has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 92 by PaulK, posted 05-29-2019 4:57 PM ringo has acknowledged this reply

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 18329
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 1.8


Message 108 of 286 (853744)
05-31-2019 11:56 AM
Reply to: Message 105 by Faith
05-31-2019 1:17 AM


Re: No obligation to let others use your body.
Faith writes:

I did think that all sane societies had laws against murder which hadn't been transcended anywhere.


Nearly all of them do - and nearly none of them consider abortion murder. Remember what murder is? That thing where we throw the perpetrators in prison or even execute them?

Izquierdo.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 105 by Faith, posted 05-31-2019 1:17 AM Faith has not yet responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 18329
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 1.8


(1)
Message 117 of 286 (853832)
06-01-2019 12:19 PM
Reply to: Message 111 by Faith
05-31-2019 5:02 PM


Re: No obligation to let others use your body.
Faith writes:

It gives me a stomachache to see that anyone would trash the American founders as you and others do. You are courting complete anarchy and the destruction of the nation.


That's nonsense. The danger to the nation is idolizing the founding fathers and clinging to their eighteenth-century solutions for our twenty-first-century problems.

Izquierdo.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 111 by Faith, posted 05-31-2019 5:02 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 118 by Faith, posted 06-01-2019 3:34 PM ringo has responded

  
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