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Author Topic:   Some states protect women's rights
Chiroptera
Member
Posts: 6617
From: Oklahoma
Joined: 09-28-2003
Member Rating: 4.9


(1)
Message 1 of 182 (853030)
05-21-2019 7:21 PM


With Alabama's anti-abortion law in the news lately, the New York Times ran an article describing some states where officials are working to protect women's health and reproductive choices.

As Some States Limit Abortion, Others Move to Protect Abortion Rights

The article mentions a couple of governors who will veto anti-choice legislation passed by their state legislatures, Nevada repealing a law prohibiting a woman from terminating her own pregnancy, and a couple of other items.

But taking center stage is Vermont passing a law that prohibits the government from interfering in any way with a woman's choice.

It does not change the status quo in Vermont, where there currently are no legal limits on when or under what circumstances a woman can decide to end a pregnancy. But supporters say that the bill sends an important message to the nation about the state’s views on abortion rights, at a time when other states are sending far different signals.

Vermont has also completed the first step in a lengthy process to amend the state constitution "that would declare 'personal reproductive autonomy' to be a fundamental right."


If this was a witch hunt, it found a lot of witches. -- David Cole, writing about the Mueller investigation.

Replies to this message:
 Message 2 by Faith, posted 05-21-2019 8:16 PM Chiroptera has acknowledged this reply

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 31651
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 2 of 182 (853036)
05-21-2019 8:16 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Chiroptera
05-21-2019 7:21 PM


Yes there are still those who think there is a right to kill a healthy developing child. No wonder the nation is under God's judgment.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Chiroptera, posted 05-21-2019 7:21 PM Chiroptera has acknowledged this reply

Replies to this message:
 Message 3 by Coragyps, posted 05-21-2019 8:53 PM Faith has not yet responded
 Message 4 by Pressie, posted 05-22-2019 6:55 AM Faith has responded

    
Coragyps
Member
Posts: 5389
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002
Member Rating: 4.0


Message 3 of 182 (853038)
05-21-2019 8:53 PM
Reply to: Message 2 by Faith
05-21-2019 8:16 PM


An embryo is not a child, Faith.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 2 by Faith, posted 05-21-2019 8:16 PM Faith has not yet responded

    
Pressie
Member
Posts: 2027
From: Pretoria, SA
Joined: 06-18-2010
Member Rating: 2.0


Message 4 of 182 (853058)
05-22-2019 6:55 AM
Reply to: Message 2 by Faith
05-21-2019 8:16 PM


A fetus is not a child, Faith.
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 Message 2 by Faith, posted 05-21-2019 8:16 PM Faith has responded

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Faith
Member
Posts: 31651
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 5 of 182 (853064)
05-22-2019 9:55 AM
Reply to: Message 4 by Pressie
05-22-2019 6:55 AM


To Coragyps and Pressie: That's just a silly rationalization. Would you kill a toddler because it isn't yet an adult? So why would you kill an embryo or a fetus that is inexorably going to become a child if you don't kill it? It's got ALL the genetic material the child will have, it's just in an earlier stage of development. I know you feel better about killing it because of that but you are kidding yourself.

AND BESIDES, most abortions are done after it LOOKS LIKE a child, maybe a tiny child but indisputably a child, a human being, and plenty are done well past the tiny child point when you really can't ignore the fact that it's a child.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


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Replies to this message:
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 Message 7 by Theodoric, posted 05-22-2019 11:31 AM Faith has not yet responded

    
Chiroptera
Member
Posts: 6617
From: Oklahoma
Joined: 09-28-2003
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 6 of 182 (853088)
05-22-2019 10:59 AM
Reply to: Message 5 by Faith
05-22-2019 9:55 AM


...most abortions are done after it LOOKS LIKE a child....

I did a very quick internet search. Most abortions in the US are preformed before the 8th week. And the pictures I've seen of an 8 week fetus doesn't really look like a human child to me. I admit, though, that this may depend on how hard one wants it to "look like" or "not look like" a child.

-

That's just a silly rationalization.

This may just be me, but all the claims the religious right makes about fetuses being "babies" always sound like rationalizations to me.


If this was a witch hunt, it found a lot of witches. -- David Cole, writing about the Mueller investigation.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 5 by Faith, posted 05-22-2019 9:55 AM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 8 by Faith, posted 05-22-2019 12:05 PM Chiroptera has responded

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 6264
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.5


Message 7 of 182 (853096)
05-22-2019 11:31 AM
Reply to: Message 5 by Faith
05-22-2019 9:55 AM


Would you kill a toddler because it isn't yet an adult?

Really? Really? That is your argument. You know as well as anyone else that the two things are not analogous.
If you do not have any real arguments then quit wasting our time.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


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Faith
Member
Posts: 31651
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 8 of 182 (853102)
05-22-2019 12:05 PM
Reply to: Message 6 by Chiroptera
05-22-2019 10:59 AM


That's surprising, but OK. Nevertheless a fetus is genetically a full human being so it's not an empty rationalization to call it a child. Why does someone have an abortion anyway? Because she KNOWS it's a child and for whatever reason doesn't want a child at this time. She isn't going to have a fetus, she's going to have a child if she doesn't abort it. Calling it a fetus or an embryo really is just a way to avoid the truth.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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 Message 21 by Chiroptera, posted 05-22-2019 4:16 PM Faith has not yet responded

    
ringo
Member
Posts: 16626
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 3.0


(3)
Message 9 of 182 (853107)
05-22-2019 12:22 PM
Reply to: Message 8 by Faith
05-22-2019 12:05 PM


Faith writes:

Why does someone have an abortion anyway?


Often it's because she knows she can't give the potential child the quality of life that it deserves - and our society isn't going to give her much help. The people who claim to be "pro-life" are too busy persecuting women to give a damn about the lives they are "saving".

Izquierdo.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 8 by Faith, posted 05-22-2019 12:05 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 10 by Faith, posted 05-22-2019 1:41 PM ringo has responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 31651
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 10 of 182 (853116)
05-22-2019 1:41 PM
Reply to: Message 9 by ringo
05-22-2019 12:22 PM


1. The concern that she's not able to care for a child isn't much of a justification for killing it.

2. With all the services available these days, both public and private, it's not TOO hard to get help, but if all else fails isn't adoption preferable to killing it?

3. Pro-life people run all kinds of services all over the country to help pregnant women so your snark is unwarranted.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


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 Message 9 by ringo, posted 05-22-2019 12:22 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
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 Message 12 by Tanypteryx, posted 05-22-2019 2:02 PM Faith has responded

    
ringo
Member
Posts: 16626
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 3.0


(2)
Message 11 of 182 (853118)
05-22-2019 1:56 PM
Reply to: Message 10 by Faith
05-22-2019 1:41 PM


Faith writes:

The concern that she's not able to care for a child isn't much of a justification for killing it.


It's not a child. Read your Bible. But even if it was, of course its future welfare should be a concern.

Faith writes:

With all the services available these days, both public and private, it's not TOO hard to get help...


And yet it often is.

Faith writes:

... but if all else fails isn't adoption preferable to killing it?


It isn't your decision to make for everybody else.

Faith writes:

Pro-life people run all kinds of services all over the country to help pregnant women so your snark is unwarranted.


And yet it isn't enough. So your opinion that women have abortions for fun definitely needs to be snarked at.

Izquierdo.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 10 by Faith, posted 05-22-2019 1:41 PM Faith has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 22 by JonF, posted 05-22-2019 4:49 PM ringo has responded

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 2223
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 4.5


(3)
Message 12 of 182 (853119)
05-22-2019 2:02 PM
Reply to: Message 10 by Faith
05-22-2019 1:41 PM


Faith writes:

3. Pro-life people run all kinds of services all over the country to help pregnant women so your snark is unwarranted.

In Alabama? Bullshit!

Asshole Republicans all around the country vote to restrict access to birth control for poor women.

Asshole republicans all around the country vote to eliminate the safety net for poor children to punish poor women for being poor.

Asshole Republicans vote to take away benefits and health care from poor mothers if they are not working, even if their salary is too low to pay for childcare, let alone buy food and put a roof over their heads.

[blatant snark]Calling them prolife is total fucking bullshit.[/blatant snark]

Edited by Tanypteryx, : No reason given.


What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


This message is a reply to:
 Message 10 by Faith, posted 05-22-2019 1:41 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 13 by Faith, posted 05-22-2019 2:17 PM Tanypteryx has responded

    
Faith
Member
Posts: 31651
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 13 of 182 (853121)
05-22-2019 2:17 PM
Reply to: Message 12 by Tanypteryx
05-22-2019 2:02 PM


Wherever services are inadequate I recommend that prolifers beef them up.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 12 by Tanypteryx, posted 05-22-2019 2:02 PM Tanypteryx has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 14 by ringo, posted 05-22-2019 2:22 PM Faith has responded
 Message 15 by Tanypteryx, posted 05-22-2019 2:37 PM Faith has responded

    
ringo
Member
Posts: 16626
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 3.0


Message 14 of 182 (853123)
05-22-2019 2:22 PM
Reply to: Message 13 by Faith
05-22-2019 2:17 PM


Faith writes:

Wherever services are inadequate I recommend that prolifers beef them up.


There's room for a lot of beef. But that doesn't seem to be their priority, or yours. One thing you could do that is constructive and cheap is to stop calling them murderers.

Izquierdo.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 13 by Faith, posted 05-22-2019 2:17 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 16 by Faith, posted 05-22-2019 2:44 PM ringo has responded

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 2223
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 4.5


Message 15 of 182 (853125)
05-22-2019 2:37 PM
Reply to: Message 13 by Faith
05-22-2019 2:17 PM


Faith writes:

Wherever services are inadequate I recommend that prolifers beef them up.

And yet, that never happens in red states or from a Republican controlled Congress, ever.


What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


This message is a reply to:
 Message 13 by Faith, posted 05-22-2019 2:17 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 17 by Faith, posted 05-22-2019 2:46 PM Tanypteryx has responded

    
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