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Author Topic:   Some states protect women's rights
Sarah Bellum
Member
Posts: 44
Joined: 05-04-2019
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 151 of 182 (854071)
06-04-2019 3:26 PM
Reply to: Message 138 by Theodoric
06-03-2019 9:19 AM


Re: Partial birth abortion is not an accurate term
Whether or not you characterize it as a "political term" you still know what it refers to, don't you?
This message is a reply to:
 Message 138 by Theodoric, posted 06-03-2019 9:19 AM Theodoric has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 153 by Theodoric, posted 06-04-2019 4:58 PM Sarah Bellum has responded
 Message 158 by ringo, posted 06-05-2019 12:09 PM Sarah Bellum has responded

    
Taq
Member
Posts: 7882
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 4.1


Message 152 of 182 (854076)
06-04-2019 4:09 PM
Reply to: Message 149 by Sarah Bellum
06-04-2019 3:20 PM


Re: No obligation to let others use your body.
Sarah Bellum writes:

But there, you see, when you say that a termination in the ninth month is for serious health reasons, you're conceding that it's a different situation from a termination at, say, seven weeks.

Everyone concedes that, even SCOTUS as part of the Roe v. Wade decision. Most people are just fine with a ban on elective abortions after the 24th week, the point at which the fetus is viable outside of the womb.

For the record, less than 1% of abortions are "partial birth abortions" (D&X), so that is a red herring.

quote:

According to the Alan Guttmacher Institute, an abortion-rights research group that conducts surveys of the nation's abortion doctors, about 15,000 abortions were performed in the year 2000 on women 20 weeks or more along in their pregnancies; the vast majority were between the 20th and 24th week. Of those, only about 2,200 D&X abortions were performed, or about 0.2 percent of the 1.3 million abortions believed to be performed that year.
https://www.npr.org/...th-abortion-separating-fact-from-spin


This message is a reply to:
 Message 149 by Sarah Bellum, posted 06-04-2019 3:20 PM Sarah Bellum has not yet responded

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 6264
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.5


Message 153 of 182 (854094)
06-04-2019 4:58 PM
Reply to: Message 151 by Sarah Bellum
06-04-2019 3:26 PM


Re: Partial birth abortion is not an accurate term
But the political term does not exist in reality and medicine. It is a charged term that has no reflection in reality. Do you mean intact dilation and extraction? If so that is the term you should use.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 151 by Sarah Bellum, posted 06-04-2019 3:26 PM Sarah Bellum has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 159 by Sarah Bellum, posted 06-08-2019 3:13 PM Theodoric has responded

    
Chiroptera
Member
Posts: 6617
From: Oklahoma
Joined: 09-28-2003
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 154 of 182 (854113)
06-04-2019 6:37 PM
Reply to: Message 149 by Sarah Bellum
06-04-2019 3:20 PM


Re: No obligation to let others use your body.
But there, you see, when you say that a termination in the ninth month is for serious health reasons, you're conceding that it's a different situation from a termination at, say, seven weeks.

Sure there's a difference, but in degree, not in kind.

But if you look at the exchange to which you were replying, you had brought up the difference between a fetus not yet born and an infant who had been born. That is a difference in kind.


If this was a witch hunt, it found a lot of witches. -- David Cole, writing about the Mueller investigation.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 149 by Sarah Bellum, posted 06-04-2019 3:20 PM Sarah Bellum has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 160 by Sarah Bellum, posted 06-08-2019 3:16 PM Chiroptera has responded

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 4097
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 3.6


Message 155 of 182 (854121)
06-04-2019 9:26 PM
Reply to: Message 150 by Sarah Bellum
06-04-2019 3:22 PM


Re: No obligation to let others use your body.
When you say it's not a reality do you mean it doesn't happen, or that it shouldn't be permitted?

The former.

I haven't looked real hard cuz I'm lazy but I don't see in any of my meager research where a 39-week abortion was evidenced. Since as I said, at 39 weeks she's on the verge of asking about her education fund, I cannot fathom her mother allowing such a thing without the most extreme of circumstances.

Late term abortion, which is rare anyway, is a political strawman that lets the anti forces think they have standing to ban it all.

Your 39-week comment I took as support in that direction. Am I wrong?


Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 150 by Sarah Bellum, posted 06-04-2019 3:22 PM Sarah Bellum has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 156 by Theodoric, posted 06-04-2019 9:49 PM AZPaul3 has acknowledged this reply
 Message 161 by Sarah Bellum, posted 06-08-2019 3:18 PM AZPaul3 has responded

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 6264
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.5


Message 156 of 182 (854123)
06-04-2019 9:49 PM
Reply to: Message 155 by AZPaul3
06-04-2019 9:26 PM


Re: No obligation to let others use your body.
I have asked repeatedly for evidence of a 39 week abortion. No one seems to be able to provide any.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 155 by AZPaul3, posted 06-04-2019 9:26 PM AZPaul3 has acknowledged this reply

    
Chiroptera
Member
Posts: 6617
From: Oklahoma
Joined: 09-28-2003
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 157 of 182 (854173)
06-05-2019 12:02 PM


Today's worship word: "fetal heartbeat"
From The Guardian:

Doctors' organization: calling abortion bans 'fetal heartbeat bills' is misleading

Not much I can add to this.

“Arbitrary gestational age bans on abortion at six weeks that use the term ‘heartbeat’ to define the gestational development being targeted do not reflect medical accuracy or clinical understanding,” said Dr Ted Anderson, president of [the American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists]. The organization represents 58,000 physicians across the US.

“Pregnancy and fetal development are a continuum. What is interpreted as a heartbeat in these bills is actually electrically induced flickering of a portion of the fetal tissue that will become the heart as the embryo develops,” Anderson said.

In addition, the Guardian has updated its style guide more accurately to reflect abortion bans spreading across the United States.

Instead of using “fetal heartbeat bills”, as the laws are often called by anti-abortion campaigners, the Guardian will make “six-week abortion ban” the preferred term for the laws, unless quoting someone, in order to better reflect the practical effect of the laws.


If this was a witch hunt, it found a lot of witches. -- David Cole, writing about the Mueller investigation.

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 16626
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 3.0


(1)
Message 158 of 182 (854176)
06-05-2019 12:09 PM
Reply to: Message 151 by Sarah Bellum
06-04-2019 3:26 PM


Re: Partial birth abortion is not an accurate term
Sarah Bellum writes:

Whether or not you characterize it as a "political term" you still know what it refers to, don't you?


We also know what "Jewish conspiracy" refers to. It's a real term but not a real thing.

Izquierdo.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 151 by Sarah Bellum, posted 06-04-2019 3:26 PM Sarah Bellum has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 162 by Sarah Bellum, posted 06-08-2019 3:20 PM ringo has responded

  
Sarah Bellum
Member
Posts: 44
Joined: 05-04-2019
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 159 of 182 (854414)
06-08-2019 3:13 PM
Reply to: Message 153 by Theodoric
06-04-2019 4:58 PM


Re: Partial birth abortion is not an accurate term
If someone refers to "partial birth abortion" do you know what they are referring to?
This message is a reply to:
 Message 153 by Theodoric, posted 06-04-2019 4:58 PM Theodoric has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 164 by Theodoric, posted 06-08-2019 3:38 PM Sarah Bellum has not yet responded

    
Sarah Bellum
Member
Posts: 44
Joined: 05-04-2019
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 160 of 182 (854416)
06-08-2019 3:16 PM
Reply to: Message 154 by Chiroptera
06-04-2019 6:37 PM


Re: No obligation to let others use your body.
So the dividing line is at birth?

Or is the dividing line earlier? That is, do you think there should be more restrictions on later-gestation than on early-gestation abortions?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 154 by Chiroptera, posted 06-04-2019 6:37 PM Chiroptera has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 166 by Chiroptera, posted 06-08-2019 4:08 PM Sarah Bellum has not yet responded

    
Sarah Bellum
Member
Posts: 44
Joined: 05-04-2019
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 161 of 182 (854417)
06-08-2019 3:18 PM
Reply to: Message 155 by AZPaul3
06-04-2019 9:26 PM


Re: No obligation to let others use your body.
Is it a "straw man" in that it never happens, or that you're not saying restrictions on it happening shouldn't be on the books?
This message is a reply to:
 Message 155 by AZPaul3, posted 06-04-2019 9:26 PM AZPaul3 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 163 by AZPaul3, posted 06-08-2019 3:35 PM Sarah Bellum has not yet responded
 Message 165 by Theodoric, posted 06-08-2019 3:39 PM Sarah Bellum has not yet responded

    
Sarah Bellum
Member
Posts: 44
Joined: 05-04-2019
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 162 of 182 (854418)
06-08-2019 3:20 PM
Reply to: Message 158 by ringo
06-05-2019 12:09 PM


Re: Partial birth abortion is not an accurate term
Oh indeed! For example, if I were to use the term "unicorn" you would be within your rights to say that such a thing doesn't exist.

Now, if I were to use the term partial-birth abortion would you be within your rights to say such a thing never happens?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 158 by ringo, posted 06-05-2019 12:09 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 180 by ringo, posted 06-09-2019 2:36 PM Sarah Bellum has not yet responded

    
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 4097
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 3.6


Message 163 of 182 (854420)
06-08-2019 3:35 PM
Reply to: Message 161 by Sarah Bellum
06-08-2019 3:18 PM


Re: No obligation to let others use your body.
Is it a "straw man" in that it never happens, or that you're not saying restrictions on it happening shouldn't be on the books?

The "it" I'm talking about is this 39-week abortion.

Does it really exist? I don't think so.

I think it's a sham, a straw man, fabricated to inflame passions against woman's rights and abortion at any time.


Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 161 by Sarah Bellum, posted 06-08-2019 3:18 PM Sarah Bellum has not yet responded

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 6264
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.5


Message 164 of 182 (854422)
06-08-2019 3:38 PM
Reply to: Message 159 by Sarah Bellum
06-08-2019 3:13 PM


Re: Partial birth abortion is not an accurate term
No I do not. That is the problem. Define it for me. It is a legal term that has no basis in reality.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 159 by Sarah Bellum, posted 06-08-2019 3:13 PM Sarah Bellum has not yet responded

    
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 6264
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.5


Message 165 of 182 (854423)
06-08-2019 3:39 PM
Reply to: Message 161 by Sarah Bellum
06-08-2019 3:18 PM


Re: No obligation to let others use your body.
Still waiting for someone to show a 39 week abortion happening. Anyone?

Edited by Theodoric, : No reason given.


Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 161 by Sarah Bellum, posted 06-08-2019 3:18 PM Sarah Bellum has not yet responded

    
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