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Author Topic:   Some states protect women's rights
Chiroptera
Member
Posts: 6641
From: Oklahoma
Joined: 09-28-2003
Member Rating: 5.0


Message 106 of 201 (853714)
05-31-2019 8:59 AM
Reply to: Message 103 by AZPaul3
05-30-2019 11:24 PM


A different society, a different people
And frankly I really don't give a flyin' flip what the founding fathers may think. They're all dead and this society has changed.

In fact, as far as Constitutional matters go, people forget how much of what the founders intended and implemented was superceded by the 14th Amendment.

Society had already changed a lot by 1868, let alone in the additional century and a half since then.

Edited by Chiroptera, : Time to change the subtitle.


If this was a witch hunt, it found a lot of witches. -- David Cole, writing about the Mueller investigation.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 103 by AZPaul3, posted 05-30-2019 11:24 PM AZPaul3 has acknowledged this reply

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 6310
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.3


Message 107 of 201 (853734)
05-31-2019 10:50 AM
Reply to: Message 100 by Faith
05-30-2019 6:32 PM


Re: No obligation to let others use your body.
skip it

Edited by Theodoric, : No reason given.


Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 100 by Faith, posted 05-30-2019 6:32 PM Faith has not yet responded

    
ringo
Member
Posts: 16673
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.9


Message 108 of 201 (853744)
05-31-2019 11:56 AM
Reply to: Message 105 by Faith
05-31-2019 1:17 AM


Re: No obligation to let others use your body.
Faith writes:

I did think that all sane societies had laws against murder which hadn't been transcended anywhere.


Nearly all of them do - and nearly none of them consider abortion murder. Remember what murder is? That thing where we throw the perpetrators in prison or even execute them?

Izquierdo.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 105 by Faith, posted 05-31-2019 1:17 AM Faith has not yet responded

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 7921
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 3.8


(5)
Message 109 of 201 (853757)
05-31-2019 12:46 PM
Reply to: Message 97 by Faith
05-30-2019 6:24 PM


Re: No obligation to let others use your body.
Faith writes:

Trashing the founding fathers is just more typical Llftist arrogance.

They were fallible humans like anyone else. What we don't do is treat them like deities. Founding Father worship seems to be more of a thing on the Right.

Actually, supporting abortion makes you anything BUT a moral paragon, and I hope THAT mentality is condemned in a few generations too.

I don't support abortion. I support a woman's right to decide things for herself. I wish abortions never occurred, but I also know it is not my right to tell someone else what to do with their bodies.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 97 by Faith, posted 05-30-2019 6:24 PM Faith has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 110 by Chiroptera, posted 05-31-2019 1:17 PM Taq has not yet responded

  
Chiroptera
Member
Posts: 6641
From: Oklahoma
Joined: 09-28-2003
Member Rating: 5.0


(4)
Message 110 of 201 (853761)
05-31-2019 1:17 PM
Reply to: Message 109 by Taq
05-31-2019 12:46 PM


Founder fetish
They were fallible humans like anyone else.

What's more, in their writings they admitted that they really d didn't know what they were doing. At that time, there really weren't any examples of democratic republics built around the Enlightment ideals they were working under. They were pretty clear that they realized they were just making it up as they went along.

Not to mention that the actual institutions they created were not based on Timeless Truths That Will Last Forever, but rather the result of profane compromises between politicians who had very different, even contradictory, beliefs about how to proceed.

Today, we have 230 years of experience of democratic republics, not only at the federal level but also the individual states and the other democracies in the world.

In the meantime, the fields of psychology, sociology, economics, and anthropology have been developed. Overall, we have a lot more data on how the real world operates and what does and what doesn't work.


If this was a witch hunt, it found a lot of witches. -- David Cole, writing about the Mueller investigation.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 109 by Taq, posted 05-31-2019 12:46 PM Taq has not yet responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 31804
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 111 of 201 (853790)
05-31-2019 5:02 PM
Reply to: Message 103 by AZPaul3
05-30-2019 11:24 PM


Re: No obligation to let others use your body.
I already answered part of this post. It gives me a stomachache to see that anyone would trash the American founders as you and others do. You are courting complete anarchy and the destruction of the nation.

This time I wanted to answer the following:

The morality has shifted from your medieval religious tripe to the reality of the human condition in our modern global society. And in the balance the choice of the woman wins, not the dictates of your church.

As I pointed out, my religious beliefs haven't been part of my argument here, just what I thought was the rational position against killing an innocent person.

However, there is a historical point to be made, of which you are obviously completely ignorant. Abortion, or really, infanticide, leaving a newborn out exposed to the elements to die a painful death, was a common practice in all the pagan cultures Christianity eventually supplanted in the West. The Enlightened view was brought by the Church, not the other way around. It was Christians who rescued the babies put out to die, also rescued elderly and sick people neglected and abandoned to death, started orphanages and hospitals and took people in where necessary.

So what you are advocating is really a return to Pre-Christian paganism, while it was Christianity that civilized the West.

I'm sure you'll just be happy to embrace the return to paganism of course. Civilization doesn't appeal to those on the Izquierdo/ or other side of the Right when it comes down to it.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 103 by AZPaul3, posted 05-30-2019 11:24 PM AZPaul3 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 112 by Theodoric, posted 05-31-2019 5:58 PM Faith has not yet responded
 Message 113 by AZPaul3, posted 05-31-2019 6:37 PM Faith has responded
 Message 117 by ringo, posted 06-01-2019 12:19 PM Faith has responded
 Message 136 by Theodoric, posted 06-03-2019 9:05 AM Faith has responded
 Message 147 by Taq, posted 06-03-2019 6:32 PM Faith has not yet responded

    
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 6310
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.3


(1)
Message 112 of 201 (853802)
05-31-2019 5:58 PM
Reply to: Message 111 by Faith
05-31-2019 5:02 PM


Re: No obligation to let others use your body.
Abortion, or really, infanticide, leaving a newborn out exposed to the elements to die a painful death, was a common practice in all the pagan cultures Christianity eventually supplanted in the West

Evidence please.
It was Christians who rescued the babies put out to die, also rescued elderly and sick people neglected and abandoned to death, started orphanages and hospitals and took people in where necessary.

irrelevant, unless you can show that Christians did this before they became the dominant culture in Europe.
So what you are advocating is really a return to Pre-Christian paganism, while it was Christianity that civilized the West.

Actually Christianity drove Europe into what is commonly known as the dark ages.

Civilization doesn't appeal to those on the Izquierdo/ or other side of the Right when it comes down to it.

You are a vile person. Your hate is so over the top. Go screw yourself.

Edited by Theodoric, : Fix db code


Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 111 by Faith, posted 05-31-2019 5:02 PM Faith has not yet responded

    
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 4136
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 3.4


(2)
Message 113 of 201 (853803)
05-31-2019 6:37 PM
Reply to: Message 111 by Faith
05-31-2019 5:02 PM


Re: No obligation to let others use your body.
Abortion, or really, infanticide, leaving a newborn out exposed to the elements to die a painful death, was a common practice in all the pagan cultures Christianity eventually supplanted in the West.

You also used to burn women at the stake. The other atrocities your cult perpetrated across Euorpe are, indeed, well known. You cannot lecture anyone on morality.

while it was Christianity that civilized terrorized the West.

There. Fixed it for you.

Edited by AZPaul3, : No reason given.


Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 111 by Faith, posted 05-31-2019 5:02 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 114 by Faith, posted 05-31-2019 10:56 PM AZPaul3 has responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 31804
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 114 of 201 (853811)
05-31-2019 10:56 PM
Reply to: Message 113 by AZPaul3
05-31-2019 6:37 PM


Re: No obligation to let others use your body.
Burned women at the stake? What ARE you talking about? For abortion? What ARE you talking about?

I'm not a Roman Catholic. THEY murdered lots of people for rejecting their false version of Christianity, including millions of true Christians, which is MY group.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 113 by AZPaul3, posted 05-31-2019 6:37 PM AZPaul3 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 115 by AZPaul3, posted 05-31-2019 11:13 PM Faith has not yet responded
 Message 116 by Theodoric, posted 06-01-2019 8:33 AM Faith has not yet responded

    
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 4136
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 3.4


Message 115 of 201 (853813)
05-31-2019 11:13 PM
Reply to: Message 114 by Faith
05-31-2019 10:56 PM


Re: No obligation to let others use your body.
I'm not a Roman Catholic. THEY murdered lots of people for rejecting their false version of Christianity, including millions of true Christians, which is MY group.

Oh. Guess I misunderstood. Sorry.


Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 114 by Faith, posted 05-31-2019 10:56 PM Faith has not yet responded

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 6310
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.3


(1)
Message 116 of 201 (853820)
06-01-2019 8:33 AM
Reply to: Message 114 by Faith
05-31-2019 10:56 PM


Re: No obligation to let others use your body.
Your religion is immoral. Protestants are well known for torturing and killing people. Not just the Roman Catholics. I venture to guess you would be ok with the torture and murder if people that you feel disrespect your god.
What do you think the penalty should be if I went around and said Jesus was a pedophile and your god could go screw himself? Do you think there should be a penalty for that?

Edited by Theodoric, : No reason given.


Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 114 by Faith, posted 05-31-2019 10:56 PM Faith has not yet responded

    
ringo
Member
Posts: 16673
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.9


(1)
Message 117 of 201 (853832)
06-01-2019 12:19 PM
Reply to: Message 111 by Faith
05-31-2019 5:02 PM


Re: No obligation to let others use your body.
Faith writes:

It gives me a stomachache to see that anyone would trash the American founders as you and others do. You are courting complete anarchy and the destruction of the nation.


That's nonsense. The danger to the nation is idolizing the founding fathers and clinging to their eighteenth-century solutions for our twenty-first-century problems.

Izquierdo.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 111 by Faith, posted 05-31-2019 5:02 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 118 by Faith, posted 06-01-2019 3:34 PM ringo has responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 31804
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 118 of 201 (853843)
06-01-2019 3:34 PM
Reply to: Message 117 by ringo
06-01-2019 12:19 PM


Re: No obligation to let others use your body.
They provided means for changing whatever doesn't keep pace with changing times you know, and their insights were timeless, built on centuries of trial and error. We still admire wisdom from the Greeks and Romans going back millennia, so don't give me this nonsense about the founders. Despite pretenses to great changes, there really is "nothing new under the sun" and we need to recognize that. You and the other "progressives" here are courting anarchy and chaos and the complete breakdown of society.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 117 by ringo, posted 06-01-2019 12:19 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 127 by ringo, posted 06-02-2019 2:25 PM Faith has responded

    
Sarah Bellum
Member
Posts: 55
Joined: 05-04-2019
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 119 of 201 (853893)
06-02-2019 7:50 AM
Reply to: Message 72 by Theodoric
05-28-2019 9:58 PM


Re: No obligation to let others use your body.
That is rather the point, isn't it? And besides, it does happen: partial-birth abortion.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 72 by Theodoric, posted 05-28-2019 9:58 PM Theodoric has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 138 by Theodoric, posted 06-03-2019 9:19 AM Sarah Bellum has responded

    
Sarah Bellum
Member
Posts: 55
Joined: 05-04-2019
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 120 of 201 (853894)
06-02-2019 8:10 AM
Reply to: Message 73 by AZPaul3
05-28-2019 10:20 PM


Re: No obligation to let others use your body.
For specific circumstances, just think of partial-birth abortion.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 73 by AZPaul3, posted 05-28-2019 10:20 PM AZPaul3 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 125 by AZPaul3, posted 06-02-2019 12:33 PM Sarah Bellum has responded

    
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