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EvC Forum Side Orders Coffee House Conservative Racism

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Author Topic:   Conservative Racism
Hyroglyphx
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Posts: 6012
From: Austin, TX
Joined: 05-03-2006
Member Rating: 2.4


Message 85 of 953 (854304)
06-06-2019 11:25 PM
Reply to: Message 4 by Taq
05-31-2019 3:14 PM


Unless you are descended from one of the indigenous American peoples, this argument doesn't hold much weight. We are a nation of immigrants, including Ingraham.

But isn't that meme essentially a throwback of what Laura is saying now? Are you saying that Native Americans in the 1600's were "racist" because they didn't want a horde of foreigners invading their lands and "changing their demographics?" Even if that is the premise, I'm not sure that's necessarily racist as much as it is xenophobic. Was the revolting of French nationals against a Nazi German invasion and occupation premised on racial lines? Or do people in general don't like when their sovereignty is threatened, regardless of race? I'm pretty sure China's objections against a Mongolian invasion wasn't premised around the fact that Mongolians are Asian.

Don't get me wrong, Laura more than likely harbors some racist tendencies, but that of course is designed to exemplify said racist tendencies of conservatives. Of course, it could also be said that liberal notions about what constitutes racism is itself misguided. A kind of virtue signaling is becoming very popular where white liberals view self-effacing behavior against caucasians and an almost offensive version of extreme patronage for all things non-white is the only way one can not be "racist." Of course, the action itself is definitionally racist since it seeks to make automatic assumptions based on..... race....... and ascribes traits based on...... race........ If that's not ironic then I'm not sure what is.

The power in denouncing someone as a racist lies in the accusation... not the substantiation of facts.


"Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4 by Taq, posted 05-31-2019 3:14 PM Taq has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 87 by PaulK, posted 06-07-2019 12:03 AM Hyroglyphx has responded
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Hyroglyphx
Member
Posts: 6012
From: Austin, TX
Joined: 05-03-2006
Member Rating: 2.4


Message 89 of 953 (854355)
06-07-2019 1:44 PM
Reply to: Message 87 by PaulK
06-07-2019 12:03 AM


Obviously it isn’t. It isn’t even talking about that.

Sure it is. A bunch of people from a different cultural that speaks a different language came to North America to forever change the landscape of that native culture. How's that not the same?

Do you really think that legal immigration or simply having more kids than white folks is equivalent to a military invasion and occupation ? The very suggestion makes my point.

Okay, that's a fair objection, you're right. So lets look at the legal immigration of the Irish into America. The resentment obviously wasn't racially motivated but rather one of a culture shock. My point is that not wanting mass immigration does not de facto mean racism... it could be... and certainly can be in some instances. But not always. I'm cautioning not to paint with such broad strokes.

It’s not meant to show a tendency, it’s intended to show the existence and acceptance of racism in current conservatism

If you think that conservatism is automatically analogous to racism then you run the exact same risk of assuming qualities based on prejudice, which is precisely what makes racism so odious.

However, I am producing evidence rather than issuing denunciations.

Its not evidence, its an accusation based on a single example. One can always find an example, but it doesn't de facto speak to an entire group.

Edited by Hyroglyphx, : No reason given.


"Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine

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Hyroglyphx
Member
Posts: 6012
From: Austin, TX
Joined: 05-03-2006
Member Rating: 2.4


Message 92 of 953 (854358)
06-07-2019 2:22 PM
Reply to: Message 91 by Taq
06-07-2019 1:56 PM


discrimination against Irish catholics and catholics in general because they were viewed as Papists, people who would take orders from the Pope and threaten US sovereignty.

Right, so was it racist for Nativists to oppose them or were there other factors at play that more closely resemble xenophobia versus racism? I'm saying an opposition to immigration or certain kinds of immigration is not necessarily racist. Like most things, its a complicated issue with a lot of moving parts.

How many overt racists vote for Democrats?

Well, 93% of black Americans voted for Obama... that's an enormous percentage and it would be difficult to say that race didn't play a significant role. As for white liberals in general, its long been believed that pandering to the minority vote isn't out of deference to minorities so much as it is a political expediency and a political strategy.

As people have noted, it might be difficult to say whether Trump supports racists, but there is no secret that racists support Trump.

No argument there... white nationalists and closeted racists alike love Trump. He's a piece of shit and he attracts other pieces of shit.


"Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine

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Hyroglyphx
Member
Posts: 6012
From: Austin, TX
Joined: 05-03-2006
Member Rating: 2.4


Message 96 of 953 (854369)
06-07-2019 5:19 PM
Reply to: Message 93 by PaulK
06-07-2019 4:16 PM


It says absolutely nothing about the reactions of the indigenous people to the newcomers - which was what you were saying.

The face of an indigenous American with the caption speaking about not liking immigration and then saying, "splendid, when you do you leave" is not a reaction to European immigration into the America's? Maybe you can explain it then.

It obviously wasn’t based on today’s racial classifications - but why would it be ? So no, it isn’t obvious that it wasn't racially motivated.

Europeans don't hate gypsies because of the amount of melanin in their skin... they loathe them because of their cultural beliefs on thievery. Likewise, the people who who are against illegal immigration do not object to it on racial lines but rather the implications. A lot of black Americans and white Americans object to it for similar reasons. American and Russian tension isn't because they're white. There are a sociological and ideological reasons. I'm simply offering the caveat that people throwing around the catch-all term of "racist" is an aspersion thrown around rather loosely.. by doing so it waters down what racism actually is.

If you think that is the only evidence then you are blind. There is more to come. There are other examples in the thread I spun this out of. I’m just taking a more detailed look at each example.

So which it? Is Republicanism analogous to racism or not?


"Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine

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Hyroglyphx
Member
Posts: 6012
From: Austin, TX
Joined: 05-03-2006
Member Rating: 2.4


Message 97 of 953 (854370)
06-07-2019 5:22 PM
Reply to: Message 94 by Taq
06-07-2019 4:37 PM


How much difference is there between xenophobia and racism? Was segregation in the South a case of xenophobia?

Pretty considerable. If Mexicans hate El Salvadorian immigration into their country its not because they hate Latino's.

Nearly the same number voted for Hillary. If anything, Obama increased black voter turnout.

Which was premised around race...


"Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine

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Hyroglyphx
Member
Posts: 6012
From: Austin, TX
Joined: 05-03-2006
Member Rating: 2.4


Message 98 of 953 (854371)
06-07-2019 5:23 PM
Reply to: Message 95 by AZPaul3
06-07-2019 4:54 PM


If ever there was an example of two sides of the same coin this is it.

Not really. Canadians may find it objectionable that Americans are moving to Canada... not because of race but because of culture.


"Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine

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Hyroglyphx
Member
Posts: 6012
From: Austin, TX
Joined: 05-03-2006
Member Rating: 2.4


Message 105 of 953 (854381)
06-07-2019 10:22 PM
Reply to: Message 99 by AZPaul3
06-07-2019 5:25 PM


You mean like brown people and their children eventually becoming citizens and voting?

No, like changing the social structure of the country. You can use Sweden as an example. In many instances the refugees they took in are not only refusing to assimilate, increasing crime to unprecedented levels, but is changing the landscape of Swedish culture and making it resemble the failed state they're escaping from. They're also so terrified of being viewed as racists that the government in many instances buries reports of rape.


"Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine

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Hyroglyphx
Member
Posts: 6012
From: Austin, TX
Joined: 05-03-2006
Member Rating: 2.4


Message 108 of 953 (854401)
06-08-2019 9:58 AM
Reply to: Message 106 by Theodoric
06-07-2019 10:45 PM


Rape has increased in Sweden and of any country in Europe has the lowest conviction rate. Everybody knows this happening, but the government's failure to connect the dots is a substantiation of what citizens have been saying for some time. Sweden's desire to import refugees is likely viewed at seeing the successes from nations like the US, UK, Canada, and Australia. They want to build a functioning multi-cultural society. And while that is fine and good, they went about it the wrong way. You cannot open the salvo of war-torn nations and expect a good outcome. The overwhelmingly functional multiculturalism found in the US and the UK is from a trickling effect spanning several decades and even centuries. To think that you can just pluck thousands of people of war-torn areas and integrate them into a totally new society seamlessly is naive.

"Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine

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 Message 106 by Theodoric, posted 06-07-2019 10:45 PM Theodoric has responded

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Hyroglyphx
Member
Posts: 6012
From: Austin, TX
Joined: 05-03-2006
Member Rating: 2.4


Message 109 of 953 (854402)
06-08-2019 10:14 AM
Reply to: Message 107 by AZPaul3
06-08-2019 12:23 AM


Re: Rise of the Reich
Wow, you’ve gone that far to the right?

Where have you been for the last 15 years? I used to be way further to the Right. If anything, I've been inching to the Left to a more Centrist viewpoint and have been for about 10 years.

The Rising Alt-Reich works in the most insidious of ways.

Perhaps it says more about your own biases to label me as "Alt-Right" or "Alt-Reich" than it does about my actual socio-political viewpoints.

You do know Sweden has been a democracy for some time now, has an excellent reputation as an honest broker the world over, and is counted today as among the more progressive nations.

I would replace has with had.

Even their lean to the right in the recent EU election, caused in no small part by immigration concerns, is a result of a free society not a weakened threatened one. Sweden is a good neighbor and deserves our support.

We're in agreement. I love metal, therefore I love Sweden!

This is a propaganda piece for the alt-reich. You couldn’t get an audience somewhere else? You had to poison this forum with your propaganda?

And herein lies the perennial problem... anytime a left-leaning person hears or sees something that offends their delicate sensibilities, its easier to denounce it as Alt-Right propaganda and refer to it as "poison" than to come to a consensus.


"Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine

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Hyroglyphx
Member
Posts: 6012
From: Austin, TX
Joined: 05-03-2006
Member Rating: 2.4


Message 111 of 953 (854404)
06-08-2019 11:02 AM
Reply to: Message 110 by Theodoric
06-08-2019 10:26 AM


Did you bother to read the reasons for the increase? If convictions were high would you claim feminists are conspiring against men?
You have provided no data. All the data shown so far shows your alt-right bullshit is in fact alt-right bullshit.

Haha, is Amnesty International alt-right??? Politico has been called either left-leaning or centrist. I think what you really mean is, "I won't accept anything that counters my worldview."

Keep calling me alt-right and I'll start referring to you as Antifa... and we'll see how productive it is.


"Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine

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Hyroglyphx
Member
Posts: 6012
From: Austin, TX
Joined: 05-03-2006
Member Rating: 2.4


Message 115 of 953 (854412)
06-08-2019 2:30 PM
Reply to: Message 112 by AZPaul3
06-08-2019 11:05 AM


Re: Rise of the Reich
No, Hyro, the perennial problem is the rise of the right.

We've experienced the conduct and action of the political right in our history and we know how devastating to life and liberty it inevitably becomes.

Seems to me the Right and Left is both going are shifting further to extremes and antagonizing the other which is drowning out rational voices from both the Left and Right. The extremism of the Right is a reaction to the extremism of the Left, and vice versa. Its almost to the point where moderate right and moderate left have more in common than far right and far left.

The only response that has ever been effective is to stomp on its head and kill it before its influence gains political power.

Like ANTIFA? I'm curious to know your thoughts on that counter-culture.


"Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine

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Hyroglyphx
Member
Posts: 6012
From: Austin, TX
Joined: 05-03-2006
Member Rating: 2.4


Message 222 of 953 (856662)
07-02-2019 12:50 AM
Reply to: Message 217 by AZPaul3
07-01-2019 11:45 PM


Are you suggesting that the US Border Patrol doesn’t offer toothbrushes to detainees and that, if so, they especially withhold hygiene products because the detainees are “Brown?” Probably half of the Border Patrol at this point is ethnically Hispanic.

"Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine

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Hyroglyphx
Member
Posts: 6012
From: Austin, TX
Joined: 05-03-2006
Member Rating: 2.4


Message 224 of 953 (856665)
07-02-2019 2:44 AM
Reply to: Message 223 by AZPaul3
07-02-2019 1:07 AM


CPB - Gestapo
I am suggesting the border patrol doesn't give toothbrushes to their captives, keeps them in concentration camps for months/years, denies them adequate medical attention, food, water and kills kids.

Gestapo concentration camps and the murder of children... all under the noses of the Dept of Justice. I assume that you are aware that there are federal guidelines for detention centers with lots of oversight. How much of this hysteria do you honestly believe?

Hasn't stopped them from following the orders of their republican overseers.

Okay, but its implied that it is borne out of racism, per the title of thread, yes?


"Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine

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Hyroglyphx
Member
Posts: 6012
From: Austin, TX
Joined: 05-03-2006
Member Rating: 2.4


(4)
Message 251 of 953 (858121)
07-16-2019 11:00 PM
Reply to: Message 239 by Sarah Bellum
07-02-2019 4:39 PM


I'm certainly in favor of bringing in immigrants. On principle, in fact: I haven't got a pool to clean or a lawn to cut like the plutocrats who want open borders to break unions and impoverish the working classes.
No, I think we need people to come here and it's a kind thing to do to work with people who do come here.

But unregulated immigration? Unless Chihuahua, Sonora, Coahuila, Baja, Tamaulipas and Nuevo Leon agree to be the 51st through 56th stars in the US flag people are going to have to line up and follow the rules instead of scaling the fence. Anything else is an insult to the good people who do things legally.

Immigration is vital to the security and stability of the United States. If you follow what's happening in Japan and some parts of Europe, they will absolutely have an existential crisis within the next 20 years. Japan is a very insular and homogenous society. They are very skeptical about their immigrants but they absolutely need them because of their dwindling population. There will be no way a tiny labor force can sustain an aging population. Will look like an inverted pyramid.

Trump is making a huge mistake on immigration. He is severely restricting H1B visas, especially for tech, with the misguided notion that Americans can fill that need. They can't. Even if Americans were interested in tech fields, it still would not be enough to meet the demand. Even with immigrants, companies are poaching one another just to stay relevant. As AI inevitably increases, the jobs of today will go away and new jobs will take their place -- jobs that we cannot even fathom at this point in time. What is wrong with attracting some of the brightest minds from all over the world and bringing them here? If the US does not do this, some other nation will.

As to the Southern border... the Mexican population is also critically vital to the stability of the US. BUT, with that caveat, I would agree that open borders are suicide. What is happening in places like Sweden, France, and Germany is seeing a legitimate need for migrants but they are not metering them in. They just think the more the merrier. The speed at which they are bringing people in creates insular pockets and hinders their ability and their desire to assimilate into the society. As we have seen, they tend to make their new host country as dysfunctional as the one they fled from.

A wall, however, is just the dumbest and most counterproductive way to go about it. You can protect a border without an enormously expensive wall that will NOT stop or even slow illegal immigration in any appreciable way.

Immigration is a very important function, but it has to be done the right way.


"Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine

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Hyroglyphx
Member
Posts: 6012
From: Austin, TX
Joined: 05-03-2006
Member Rating: 2.4


Message 339 of 953 (858527)
07-21-2019 12:57 PM
Reply to: Message 262 by PaulK
07-19-2019 8:37 AM


Re: Almost a caricature
Oh look the usual bigotry. Well, it’s certainly on topic.
Even the Left of the Democratic Party are hardly Communists. They are not even hard Left by European standards.

That may or may not be the case in Europe, but The Squad is far left even to the Democratic Party and sowing division within the party wherever they go. They can't stop making pot shots against Nancy Pelosi, a politician long considered so far to the left its fallen off the page. Its not left enough... its like that time Bernie Sanders was hijacked and shouted down to unproductively make a point that he already supported. Its an oppression olympics... the objective is to one-up someone else about the horrors of _____ <----

Also, I hardly think that a Muslim so liberal that she sometimes calls Allah “She” is the sort of fundamentalist that attacked the U.S. In fact those Muslims aren’t likely to approve of female politicians at all.

And she speaks to an era where liberal indoctrination on college campuses was inevitably going to lead.


"Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine

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Replies to this message:
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