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Author Topic:   Conservative Racism
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 6264
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.5


(1)
Message 166 of 205 (854607)
06-10-2019 6:40 PM
Reply to: Message 163 by Faith
06-10-2019 6:21 PM


Re: Evangelical Christians demanding special privileges
So you got nothing about the Pope.
What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence. And you have one Christian that stood up to little adolph. Go you.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 163 by Faith, posted 06-10-2019 6:21 PM Faith has not yet responded

    
foreveryoung
Member
Posts: 920
Joined: 12-26-2011


Message 167 of 205 (854608)
06-10-2019 7:52 PM
Reply to: Message 50 by ringo
06-05-2019 11:58 AM


Re: No this is not about racism
Faith would be a racist if she believes caucasians are superior to all other races.
I dont think there are very many pure races anymore. There are quite a few people with pale skin who sunburn easily. If faith has that quality of skin, I find it hard to believe she thinks that is superior to all other skin types. But it seems to me that people are calling faith a racist based on other criteria than skin color. She wants limits on immigration. Not all countries are equal. Some have more to offer America than others. Culture is Important to people. People take pride in the culture of their nation. Imagine the shoe was on the other foot. Iran is fiercely Islamic. How would it's people feel if Christians made up over 50 percent of the nation over a very short period of time. They would consider it akin to a medieval crusade. Culture is not race. If you bring in new cultures, it has to be at a slow pace; otherwise, society fragments and you have a recipe for civil war. If cultures dont blend and become one new culture, hostility is bound to escalate. That type of society is ideal for a totalitarian dictatorship in order to keep peace and order. Another result of such a society is that politicians will pit these disparate groups as victims of a boogey man which is generally the culture that either is the dominant one or recently was dominant. These politicians will promise to protect these "marginalized" groups from "oppression" in exchange for votes. This goes on way past the time that historical oppression has been largely eliminated. The politicians goal is to keep the disparate identity groups seething in rage and resentment so that the promises made to them will be perceptibly valuable.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 50 by ringo, posted 06-05-2019 11:58 AM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 183 by ringo, posted 06-11-2019 11:59 AM foreveryoung has not yet responded

    
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 4097
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 3.6


Message 168 of 205 (854609)
06-10-2019 7:56 PM
Reply to: Message 162 by Theodoric
06-10-2019 6:11 PM


Re: Evangelical Christians demanding special privileges
Hey Theo,

IIRC the lady may be right on this one. The Popes thing.

Edited by AZPaul3, : No reason given.


Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 162 by Theodoric, posted 06-10-2019 6:11 PM Theodoric has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 169 by Theodoric, posted 06-10-2019 8:10 PM AZPaul3 has responded

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 6264
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.5


Message 169 of 205 (854610)
06-10-2019 8:10 PM
Reply to: Message 168 by AZPaul3
06-10-2019 7:56 PM


Re: Evangelical Christians demanding special privileges
Evidence please. Though the Popes were quite remiss in their duties and should be rightly vilified for their lack of action, to call them Hitler supporters requires evidence. Present evidence and I will consider it. Without evidence I will not consider the assertion.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 168 by AZPaul3, posted 06-10-2019 7:56 PM AZPaul3 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 170 by AZPaul3, posted 06-10-2019 8:21 PM Theodoric has responded

    
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 4097
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 3.6


Message 170 of 205 (854611)
06-10-2019 8:21 PM
Reply to: Message 169 by Theodoric
06-10-2019 8:10 PM


Re: Evangelical Christians demanding special privileges
Just a memory of research past.

Unfortunately its biologic memory instead of the preferred digital but I haven’t been implanted, yet.

At my stage of life the former is rather suspect … and maybe too late for the latter. Bummer.

Anyway, nothing I can present so I'll gracefully withdraw.


Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 169 by Theodoric, posted 06-10-2019 8:10 PM Theodoric has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 171 by Theodoric, posted 06-10-2019 8:55 PM AZPaul3 has responded

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 6264
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.5


Message 171 of 205 (854612)
06-10-2019 8:55 PM
Reply to: Message 170 by AZPaul3
06-10-2019 8:21 PM


Re: Evangelical Christians demanding special privileges
Wikipedia has a pretty good overview of the situation.
https://en.wikipedia.org/...Catholic_Church_and_Nazi_Germany
The idea that the Pope supported Hitler comes a lot from the book "Hitler's Pope" by John Cornwell.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hitler%27s_Pope
This book was very highly criticized as not being very well researched and reaching spurious conclusions.

The author himself seems to have pulled back from what he presented in the book.

quote:
I would now argue, in the light of the debates and evidence following 'Hitler's Pope', that Pius XII had so little scope of action that it is impossible to judge the motives for his silence during the war, while Rome was under the heel of Mussolini and later occupied by the Germans... But even if his prevarications and silences were performed with the best of intentions, he had an obligation in the postwar period to explain those actions.

quote:
While I believe with many commentators that the pope might have done more to help the plight of the Jews, I now feel, 10 years after the publication of my book, that his scope for action was severely limited and I am prepared to state this.... Nevertheless, due to his ineffectual and diplomatic language in respect of the Nazis and the Jews, I still believe that it was incumbent on him to explain his failure to speak out after the war. This he never did.

This whole thing is just Faith's anti-Catholicism.


Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 170 by AZPaul3, posted 06-10-2019 8:21 PM AZPaul3 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 173 by AZPaul3, posted 06-10-2019 9:18 PM Theodoric has responded
 Message 175 by Faith, posted 06-10-2019 9:51 PM Theodoric has not yet responded

    
foreveryoung
Member
Posts: 920
Joined: 12-26-2011


Message 172 of 205 (854614)
06-10-2019 9:05 PM


Reihan Salam

A person of Bangladeshi heritage.

https://youtu.be/Z7-OF5GkTzg

I dare say he and faith disagree little in this speech and yet I doubt many of you consider him a racist.


    
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 4097
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 3.6


(2)
Message 173 of 205 (854615)
06-10-2019 9:18 PM
Reply to: Message 171 by Theodoric
06-10-2019 8:55 PM


Re: Evangelical Christians demanding special privileges
Yes, exactly my recollection. Memories of the old World at War documentaries I used to devour as a teen.

I have the vivid flashbacks of the old films showing the Pope going from here to somewhere in all his pageantry while the voice over was not a happy camper about the Pope’s accommodations towards the Nazis (as another voice over intoned) was a force that could have crushed him like bug anytime it wanted. So where was god? My come away emotion from that experience helped fortify my atheist views.


Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 171 by Theodoric, posted 06-10-2019 8:55 PM Theodoric has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 174 by Theodoric, posted 06-10-2019 9:38 PM AZPaul3 has acknowledged this reply
 Message 177 by Faith, posted 06-10-2019 10:13 PM AZPaul3 has acknowledged this reply

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 6264
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.5


(2)
Message 174 of 205 (854616)
06-10-2019 9:38 PM
Reply to: Message 173 by AZPaul3
06-10-2019 9:18 PM


Re: Evangelical Christians demanding special privileges
The Popes definitely were did the bare minimum. There is a lot to criticize them over. Their actions helped the rise of Hitler and Nazism. But they were in no way supporters of Hitler. Their inaction helped Hitler, but they were not supporters.
I am not a supporter of the Catholic church or the Popes. I am a firm believer in criticizing institutions and people for the actions they do, but not for things they did not do.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 173 by AZPaul3, posted 06-10-2019 9:18 PM AZPaul3 has acknowledged this reply

Replies to this message:
 Message 176 by Faith, posted 06-10-2019 9:52 PM Theodoric has responded

    
Faith
Member
Posts: 31653
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 175 of 205 (854617)
06-10-2019 9:51 PM
Reply to: Message 171 by Theodoric
06-10-2019 8:55 PM


Re: Evangelical Christians demanding special privileges
I don't HAVE any "anti-Catholicism" that isn't the result of reading things such as that book. When I was reading up on religions back in the eighties, which is what led me finally to becoming a Christian, at first I was certain I was going to become a Catholic. As I kept reading I ran across reasons why I couldn't do that.

You always assume I start out anti-Catholic and look for confirmation. That's not how it works. I LEARNED about the Papacy in the last few decades or so. It was fairly recent that I read what the Reformers said, and they were Catholics after all, most of them priests, and they were the ones who brought about the Protestant Reformationl, BECAUSE OF WHAT THEY FOUND OUT about the Pope and the teachings of the RCC that contradict the Bible.

They certainly didn't start out with objections to the Pope. Luther assumed that the Pope would support his theses against the corruptions in the RC Church, and was astonished when he didn't and instead excommunicated him. As he continued to study the Bible, as well as the teachings of the RC Church and the history of the papacy he eventually came to the conclusion that the papal system is the antichrist. So did other Reformers. They didn't start out anti-Catholic, they were educated into it.

Same with me. The big problem I see these days is that there are a lot of Protestants who haven't yet seen how the papacy is the antichrist and the doctrines of the RCC are not Christian but pagan.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 171 by Theodoric, posted 06-10-2019 8:55 PM Theodoric has not yet responded

    
Faith
Member
Posts: 31653
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 176 of 205 (854618)
06-10-2019 9:52 PM
Reply to: Message 174 by Theodoric
06-10-2019 9:38 PM


Re: Evangelical Christians demanding special privileges
Did you run across the information about how the Pope formed the "rat llnes" by which Nazis escaped to South America after the war?

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 174 by Theodoric, posted 06-10-2019 9:38 PM Theodoric has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 178 by Theodoric, posted 06-10-2019 10:47 PM Faith has responded

    
Faith
Member
Posts: 31653
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 177 of 205 (854619)
06-10-2019 10:13 PM
Reply to: Message 173 by AZPaul3
06-10-2019 9:18 PM


Papal errors
Where was god? My come away emotion from that experience helped fortify my atheist views.

In my opinion it's better to be an atheist than a Roman Catholic which is basically paganism anyway.

Recent Popes put "Mary" in the place of God, pray to her, worship her, pay attention to the communications they get from those apparitions seen here and there by children over the last century or so. Demonic apparitions impersonating "Mary." But even if they were in fact the real Mary worshiping and praying to her is blasphemy. She's a human being, not God. We are only to worship God.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 173 by AZPaul3, posted 06-10-2019 9:18 PM AZPaul3 has acknowledged this reply

Replies to this message:
 Message 179 by Theodoric, posted 06-10-2019 10:49 PM Faith has not yet responded

    
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 6264
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.5


Message 178 of 205 (854622)
06-10-2019 10:47 PM
Reply to: Message 176 by Faith
06-10-2019 9:52 PM


Re: Evangelical Christians demanding special privileges
No please supply it.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 176 by Faith, posted 06-10-2019 9:52 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 180 by Faith, posted 06-10-2019 11:29 PM Theodoric has responded

    
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 6264
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.5


Message 179 of 205 (854623)
06-10-2019 10:49 PM
Reply to: Message 177 by Faith
06-10-2019 10:13 PM


Topic? Maybe?
Please stay on topic.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 177 by Faith, posted 06-10-2019 10:13 PM Faith has not yet responded

    
Faith
Member
Posts: 31653
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 180 of 205 (854624)
06-10-2019 11:29 PM
Reply to: Message 178 by Theodoric
06-10-2019 10:47 PM


The WWII Catholic Ratlines
Wikipedia on WWII Ratlines

Ratlines comprised a system of escape routes for Nazis and other fascists fleeing Europe at the end of World War II. These escape routes mainly led toward havens in Latin America, particularly Argentina, Chile, Paraguay, Colombia,[1] Brazil, Uruguay, Mexico, Guatemala, Ecuador, and Bolivia, as well as the USA and Switzerland. There were two primary routes: the first went from Germany to Spain, then Argentina; the second from Germany to Rome to Genoa, then South America. The two routes developed independently but eventually came together to collaborate.[2] The ratlines were supported by clergy of the Catholic Church, and historian Michael Phayer claims this was supported by the Holy See.[3][4]

The role of the Pope is minimized here, but I've seen other accounts that give him a big role.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 178 by Theodoric, posted 06-10-2019 10:47 PM Theodoric has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 181 by Theodoric, posted 06-11-2019 8:13 AM Faith has responded
 Message 184 by Theodoric, posted 06-11-2019 12:13 PM Faith has responded

    
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