Understanding through Discussion


Welcome! You are not logged in. [ Login ]
EvC Forum active members: 88 (8929 total)
Current session began: 
Page Loaded: 08-24-2019 9:21 PM
26 online now:
AZPaul3, DrJones*, Hyroglyphx, JonF, Theodoric (5 members, 21 visitors)
Chatting now:  Chat room empty
Newest Member: Jedothek
Post Volume:
Total: 860,376 Year: 15,412/19,786 Month: 2,135/3,058 Week: 509/404 Day: 24/89 Hour: 0/1


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
RewPrev1
...
2021
22
2324
...
41NextFF
Author Topic:   Conservative Racism
Sarah Bellum
Member
Posts: 413
Joined: 05-04-2019
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 316 of 610 (858419)
07-20-2019 10:13 AM
Reply to: Message 311 by JonF
07-20-2019 9:44 AM


Re: Almost a caricature
You sound like the Christians who complain, when told of the evil people do in the name of Christ, "They weren't real Christians!"
This message is a reply to:
 Message 311 by JonF, posted 07-20-2019 9:44 AM JonF has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 318 by JonF, posted 07-20-2019 10:27 AM Sarah Bellum has acknowledged this reply
 Message 331 by Faith, posted 07-21-2019 7:33 AM Sarah Bellum has responded

    
Sarah Bellum
Member
Posts: 413
Joined: 05-04-2019
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 317 of 610 (858420)
07-20-2019 10:13 AM
Reply to: Message 312 by JonF
07-20-2019 9:45 AM


Re: Almost a caricature
I apologize for my shortcomings.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 312 by JonF, posted 07-20-2019 9:45 AM JonF has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 319 by JonF, posted 07-20-2019 10:28 AM Sarah Bellum has responded

    
JonF
Member
Posts: 5365
Joined: 06-23-2003
Member Rating: 2.4


Message 318 of 610 (858422)
07-20-2019 10:27 AM
Reply to: Message 316 by Sarah Bellum
07-20-2019 10:13 AM


Re: Almost a caricature
You sound like the Christians who complain, when told of the evil people do in the name of Christ, "They weren't real Christians!"

The facts are thAt Stalin was not a socialist, nor was Hitler.

Do you think North Korea is a democratic republic?

I take it you don't know of any varieties of socialism. FTI there are some.

Edited by JonF, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 316 by Sarah Bellum, posted 07-20-2019 10:13 AM Sarah Bellum has acknowledged this reply

  
JonF
Member
Posts: 5365
Joined: 06-23-2003
Member Rating: 2.4


Message 319 of 610 (858423)
07-20-2019 10:28 AM
Reply to: Message 317 by Sarah Bellum
07-20-2019 10:13 AM


Re: Almost a caricature
apologize for my shortcomings.

I was replying to Faith. Do try to keep up.

Edited by JonF, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 317 by Sarah Bellum, posted 07-20-2019 10:13 AM Sarah Bellum has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 320 by Sarah Bellum, posted 07-20-2019 10:49 AM JonF has not yet responded

  
Sarah Bellum
Member
Posts: 413
Joined: 05-04-2019
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 320 of 610 (858426)
07-20-2019 10:49 AM
Reply to: Message 319 by JonF
07-20-2019 10:28 AM


Re: Almost a caricature
I apologize again for all my shortcomings.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 319 by JonF, posted 07-20-2019 10:28 AM JonF has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 322 by Chiroptera, posted 07-20-2019 11:27 AM Sarah Bellum has responded

    
Chiroptera
Member
Posts: 6772
From: Oklahoma
Joined: 09-28-2003
Member Rating: 5.6


(2)
Message 321 of 610 (858427)
07-20-2019 11:26 AM
Reply to: Message 279 by Faith
07-19-2019 1:38 PM


Criticism of Israeli apartheid goes back way before Muslims were at all a significant issue in the US; I've been reading (and agreeing with) denouncements of Israeli policy and US blank check support of Israel since the 1980s. Criticism of Israel includes a lot more than Muslims; in the US critics of Israel include significant numbers of Christians and Jews. So when I ask for something associated with Muslim beliefs, criticism of Israel isn't really one of them.

As far as anti-Semitism goes, I've read Omar's actual statements, and I still don't see anything anti- Semitic about them. At any rate, when American Jews are polled about the things that frighten them, it's right wing white nationalist terrorism that tops the lists, not American Muslims.


It says something about the qualities of our current president that the best argument anyone has made in his defense is that he didn't know what he was talking about. -- Paul Krugman

This message is a reply to:
 Message 279 by Faith, posted 07-19-2019 1:38 PM Faith has not yet responded

  
Chiroptera
Member
Posts: 6772
From: Oklahoma
Joined: 09-28-2003
Member Rating: 5.6


(2)
Message 322 of 610 (858429)
07-20-2019 11:27 AM
Reply to: Message 320 by Sarah Bellum
07-20-2019 10:49 AM


Re: Almost a caricature
You seem to apologize a lot. Are you doing anything to fix your short comings?

It says something about the qualities of our current president that the best argument anyone has made in his defense is that he didn't know what he was talking about. -- Paul Krugman

This message is a reply to:
 Message 320 by Sarah Bellum, posted 07-20-2019 10:49 AM Sarah Bellum has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 324 by Sarah Bellum, posted 07-20-2019 12:38 PM Chiroptera has not yet responded
 Message 325 by JonF, posted 07-20-2019 1:15 PM Chiroptera has responded

  
dwise1
Member
Posts: 3648
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 3.8


(1)
Message 323 of 610 (858437)
07-20-2019 12:01 PM
Reply to: Message 315 by JonF
07-20-2019 9:52 AM


Re: Almost a caricature
Sarah Bellum writes:

But it doesn't cover up the news headlines that the four up-and-coming standard-bearers of the Democratic Party (you know, the "Squad" that's giving Speaker Pelosi such headaches) are anti-semites and socialists.


How many varieties of socialism do you know of? "Socialism" is becoming as meaningless as "fake news", just an incantation to ward off something you can't deal with.

In order to have any kind of meaningful discussion, both sides need to agree on the meanings of the words being used -- or at the very least provide meaningful definitions for our own use of those words. Both sides using the same words with different meanings and/or using words without revealing what they mean in your usage destroys any chance of meaningful discussion and only creates confusion.

Those of us with experience in creation/evolution discourse should immediately recognize that, especially in creationist rhetoric. Faith's attempts to redefine "species" beyond all recognition is an extreme example. We cannot even get any creationist to provide a definition of what they mean by "evolution", but when they use that word their followers respond with their own misunderstandings of evolution further shaped by creationist invective against "evolution". In debates, they would label their opponents as "evolutionists" and their opponents would accept the label no knowing the massive body of negative connotations that term has been loaded with; unknowingly, they presented themselves as "the enemy of everything good" and thus lost the debate in the very first minute. Their tactics depend on generating confusion and avoiding meaningful discussion while using miscontrued words to trigger negative reactions against their opponents.

The word "socialist" is being used in the same manner. Republicans use it to invoke fear and hate in their followers who don't even know what that word means and to guarantee the defeat of their opponents, especially the ones who actually know what that word means (which is not how Republicans are misusing it). They are invoking a bogeyman that doesn't exist.

Here again is an informative YouTube video: The Difference Between Socialism, Communism, and Marxism Explained by a Marxist by azureScapegoat (who lives in Sweden).

In that graphic, please note that social democracy is a form of capitalism. Social democracy describes the positions of Democrats that Republicans denounce as "socialists" in order to imply that they are communists, which they quite clearly are not.

So when someone uses the "s-word", they need to not only know what it means but they also have to be able to describe what they mean by it. Only then can we compare what they are saying with reality, even though that is the very last thing that they want to happen.

Edited by dwise1, : Added link for "social democracy"

Edited by dwise1, : Added qs of Sarah Bellum to whom JonF was replying


This message is a reply to:
 Message 315 by JonF, posted 07-20-2019 9:52 AM JonF has not yet responded

    
Sarah Bellum
Member
Posts: 413
Joined: 05-04-2019
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 324 of 610 (858439)
07-20-2019 12:38 PM
Reply to: Message 322 by Chiroptera
07-20-2019 11:27 AM


Re: Almost a caricature
Sigh. Google it.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 322 by Chiroptera, posted 07-20-2019 11:27 AM Chiroptera has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 327 by dwise1, posted 07-20-2019 4:54 PM Sarah Bellum has acknowledged this reply

    
JonF
Member
Posts: 5365
Joined: 06-23-2003
Member Rating: 2.4


Message 325 of 610 (858444)
07-20-2019 1:15 PM
Reply to: Message 322 by Chiroptera
07-20-2019 11:27 AM


Re: Almost a caricature
It's a passive-aggressive way of calling some an asshole. In this case it's being used to avoid addressing a post.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 322 by Chiroptera, posted 07-20-2019 11:27 AM Chiroptera has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 328 by Chiroptera, posted 07-20-2019 5:36 PM JonF has not yet responded

  
JonF
Member
Posts: 5365
Joined: 06-23-2003
Member Rating: 2.4


Message 326 of 610 (858445)
07-20-2019 1:26 PM


Standard right- tactics
I see your accusations cannot be supported.

How many varieties of socialism do you know of? "Socialism" is becoming as meaningless as "fake news", just an incantation to ward off something you can't deal with.

What quotes indicate anti-semitism?


  
dwise1
Member
Posts: 3648
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 3.8


(1)
Message 327 of 610 (858472)
07-20-2019 4:54 PM
Reply to: Message 324 by Sarah Bellum
07-20-2019 12:38 PM


Re: Almost a caricature
Sigh. Social democracy. Google it.

Honor, Courage, Commitment
(US Navy)

A Christian once asked what I as an atheist believed in. My spontaneous and totally honest answer was sounded corny, but it was true: "Truth, Justice, and the American Way." That's still my answer today.

GOP Values: Hypocrisy, Corruption, Greed, Lying, Cheating, Voter Suppression, Election Fraud, Conspiring with the Enemy

" ... how hard can that be, to say that Nazis are bad?!"
(Barack Obama)

"How are we still fighting Nazis today?"
(Daisy Johnson, S5E15)

"Nance's Law: Coincidence takes a lot of planning."
(Malcolm Nance)

It is a well-known fact that reality has a definite liberal bias.
(Steven Colbert on NPR)


This message is a reply to:
 Message 324 by Sarah Bellum, posted 07-20-2019 12:38 PM Sarah Bellum has acknowledged this reply

Replies to this message:
 Message 329 by JonF, posted 07-20-2019 6:09 PM dwise1 has responded

    
Chiroptera
Member
Posts: 6772
From: Oklahoma
Joined: 09-28-2003
Member Rating: 5.6


Message 328 of 610 (858478)
07-20-2019 5:36 PM
Reply to: Message 325 by JonF
07-20-2019 1:15 PM


Re: Almost a caricature
That was my passive-aggressive way of saying we're getting tired of it.

It says something about the qualities of our current president that the best argument anyone has made in his defense is that he didn't know what he was talking about. -- Paul Krugman

This message is a reply to:
 Message 325 by JonF, posted 07-20-2019 1:15 PM JonF has not yet responded

  
JonF
Member
Posts: 5365
Joined: 06-23-2003
Member Rating: 2.4


Message 329 of 610 (858485)
07-20-2019 6:09 PM
Reply to: Message 327 by dwise1
07-20-2019 4:54 PM


Re: Almost a caricature
You forgot transferring piles of money to the already rich and major corporations, and ensuring that nothing interferes with said corporations poisoning our environment.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 327 by dwise1, posted 07-20-2019 4:54 PM dwise1 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 330 by dwise1, posted 07-20-2019 7:07 PM JonF has not yet responded

  
dwise1
Member
Posts: 3648
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 3.8


Message 330 of 610 (858487)
07-20-2019 7:07 PM
Reply to: Message 329 by JonF
07-20-2019 6:09 PM


Re: Almost a caricature
So much evil, so little time.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 329 by JonF, posted 07-20-2019 6:09 PM JonF has not yet responded

    
RewPrev1
...
2021
22
2324
...
41NextFF
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2018 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.0 Beta
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2019