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Author Topic:   Conservative Racism
Faith
Member
Posts: 32605
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 586 of 610 (860790)
08-11-2019 10:59 PM
Reply to: Message 583 by AZPaul3
08-11-2019 7:25 PM


Re: The Nazis Are Coming.
When you look at the web sites of each camp what are the positions being advocated?

On the left they are pushing universal healthcare, universal education, jobs programs and welfare....

All of which would cost enormous amounts of money, require taxing us all beyond our tolerance and drive those who can afford it out of the country, while running up the debt which is already going to bankrupt us sooner than we want to think. The Left is all for taking care of everybody without any idea of how they are going to pay for it except the general formula "tax the rich," and again that just motivates the rich to leave while the rest have to pay for it all. It's called spending other people's money until you run out of it. Bleeding hearts lead to bled out bank accounts.

And Trump has done a fantastic job on creating jobs so we don't need any expensive jobs programs.

On the right they are pushing building walls

Which shouldn't be any more controversial than people keeping doors on their houses and choosing whom to invite in, but the Left turns this natural sensible thing into some kind of crime.

more/bigger tax cuts for the super wealthy,

It's called stimulating the economy. If you overtax the wealthy they won't use their money to create the wealth that makes the nation as a whole prosperous, which is what makes it possible to pay for many of the programs the Left wants. This is counterintuitive but in practice it works. The Left spins this as if it benefited only the wealthy themselves, always finding some way to turn practical realistic programs into something selfish, like the wall at the border, which also benefits the nation as a whole, this nation everybody wants to come into because we've had sensible policies that made us wealthy. I have no great ability to understand these things myself but I do know that if all you do is spend and take away people's money to pay for other people you are going to destroy the wealth of the nation and eventually the nation itself.

armed troops

You mean the defense budget? I don't have any way of determining how well funded our military should be but I do know that the world is not full of nice people as you seem to want to believe and at least historically America has been the good guys. I think we still are but the Left has been undermining our ability to be the good guys as well as our image in the eyes of the rest of the world, but then they are mostly all Leftists too.

and concentration camps.

Now that just makes me cry it is such a horrible lying accusation of the best nation that ever existed, the nation that liberated the concentration camps of Germany. And the "cages" at the border were in place under Obama and the people are NOT deprived as in a concentration camp, besides which we didn't put them there, they crashed our border and that's all the facilities we have for taking care of them thanks to insufficient funding. And we provide all kinds of things to take care of them. This is such a horrific lie it hurts and I don't know how any American could say such things. Build the wall, control the borders.

The left is for improving the human condition while the right is for preserving the wealth and dominance of the chosen race.

Amazing how you've put evil for good and good for evil and actually seem to believe it. You call the good guys the Nazis and vice versa and don't even know what you are saying.

The Right knows the realities of what's involved in improving the human condition while the Left has no idea and has policies that can only impoverish the nation and cause the division between us you all make the fault of the Right.

The alt-Reich vids *you* chose to post on this forum were not about helping people in times of dire need but were about preserving the advantages of your white race. And we’re supposed to not see the white supremacy in your message?

I haven't seen the videos I guess but I can tell by the message that this is just the usual racist accusation which is the real racism.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 583 by AZPaul3, posted 08-11-2019 7:25 PM AZPaul3 has acknowledged this reply

Replies to this message:
 Message 590 by JonF, posted 08-12-2019 9:58 AM Faith has not yet responded

    
Hyroglyphx
Member
Posts: 5781
From: Austin, TX
Joined: 05-03-2006
Member Rating: 1.8


Message 587 of 610 (860792)
08-11-2019 11:30 PM
Reply to: Message 583 by AZPaul3
08-11-2019 7:25 PM


Re: The Nazis Are Coming.
On the left they are pushing universal healthcare, universal education, jobs programs and welfare.

I would like to see a model similar to Australia's healthcare model in the US, universal education is already implemented for K-12 and although I would absolutely revamp colleges making it universal is a fruitless endeavor, I'm for expanding job training programs to replace a typical college education by at least half with a greater emphasis on trades, and welfare is gigantic as it is.

You confuse social programs with charity... and you think you're a saint if you advocate for them.

On the right they are pushing building walls, more/bigger tax cuts for the super wealthy, armed troops and concentration camps.

I literally want none of those things, so I guess that leaves me more leftist than it does conservative. I think a "wall" is an antiquated idea and think you'd have better results by dumping $80 billion into an open hole in the desert, I want companies like Amazon to pay taxes and don't agree with tax shelters, and I don't want "concentration camps."

The left is for improving the human condition while the right is for preserving the wealth and dominance of the chosen race.

Yeah, that's not slanted at all.

The alt-Reich vids *you* chose to post on this forum were not about helping people in times of dire need but were about preserving the advantages of your white race.

Yeah, Sam Harris and Tulsi Gabbard are world-renown, Hitlerian, white supremacists bent on creating a 4th Reich... Dude... get serious for a second.... You apparently can't even pretend to be a little objective. You've gone from fairly center left to off the page, comrade. You and your little fanboy echo chamber are in a cult and you don't even know it.

Edited by Hyroglyphx, : No reason given.


"Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine

This message is a reply to:
 Message 583 by AZPaul3, posted 08-11-2019 7:25 PM AZPaul3 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 588 by AZPaul3, posted 08-12-2019 12:45 AM Hyroglyphx has not yet responded
 Message 589 by Theodoric, posted 08-12-2019 8:34 AM Hyroglyphx has responded

    
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 4380
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 3.2


(1)
Message 588 of 610 (860795)
08-12-2019 12:45 AM
Reply to: Message 587 by Hyroglyphx
08-11-2019 11:30 PM


Re: The Nazis Are Coming.
The alt-Reich vids *you* chose to post on this forum were not about helping people in times of dire need but were about preserving the advantages of your white race.

Sam Harris and Tulsi Gabbard are world-renown, Hitlerian, white supremacists bent on creating a 4th Reich...

I didn't even know they were members here. Guess I must have missed the videos they posted.

If I catch up to their posts and they are the same kind of rightist hate propaganda you posted here I'll be sure to let them know my views.


Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 587 by Hyroglyphx, posted 08-11-2019 11:30 PM Hyroglyphx has not yet responded

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 6485
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.4


Message 589 of 610 (860800)
08-12-2019 8:34 AM
Reply to: Message 587 by Hyroglyphx
08-11-2019 11:30 PM


Re: The Nazis Are Coming.
You speak as if Harris and Gabbard are some sort of liberal stalwarts. That you think they are liberals shows how far right you are. Both of them have some liberal stances, but this just shows that people are not easily pigeon holed and no two people have the exact same beliefs.
Looking at all of their stances and statements I would put both of them as center right. I have already posted about the illiberal, right wing beliefs of Sam Harris. Tulsi Gabbard has had and continues to make illiberal statements. She has been closely associated with hindu nationalists and and seems to have an affinity for right strong men.
https://theintercept.com/...bard-2020-hindu-nationalist-modi

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 587 by Hyroglyphx, posted 08-11-2019 11:30 PM Hyroglyphx has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 592 by Hyroglyphx, posted 08-12-2019 11:35 AM Theodoric has responded

    
JonF
Member
Posts: 5286
Joined: 06-23-2003
Member Rating: 2.4


(2)
Message 590 of 610 (860807)
08-12-2019 9:58 AM
Reply to: Message 586 by Faith
08-11-2019 10:59 PM


Re: The Nazis Are Coming.
Trickle down economics has been tried many times. Nothing trickles. The rich get richer and the poor get poorer.

In Kansas it failed so spectacularly that a Republican legislature overrode a Republican governor's veto to raise taxes significantly.

Trump’s tax cuts had no noticeable effect on the economy. It was growing before and continued to grow at the same rate after.

Circulating money helps the economy. Money in the hands of the majority of Amer, not just the 1%.

Edited by JonF, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 586 by Faith, posted 08-11-2019 10:59 PM Faith has not yet responded

  
Chiroptera
Member
Posts: 6761
From: Oklahoma
Joined: 09-28-2003
Member Rating: 5.4


Message 591 of 610 (860817)
08-12-2019 11:29 AM
Reply to: Message 579 by Hyroglyphx
08-11-2019 6:49 PM


Re: The global tentacles of white nationalism
Earlier in this thread, I was explaining how Trump's comments to Elijah Cummings is oldfashioned racist, and it needs to be confronted.

You, if I'm interpreting you correctly, were saying Trump's comments aren't racist.

What would be "the middle" position on this?


It says something about the qualities of our current president that the best argument anyone has made in his defense is that he didn't know what he was talking about. -- Paul Krugman

This message is a reply to:
 Message 579 by Hyroglyphx, posted 08-11-2019 6:49 PM Hyroglyphx has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 593 by Hyroglyphx, posted 08-12-2019 11:41 AM Chiroptera has responded

  
Hyroglyphx
Member
Posts: 5781
From: Austin, TX
Joined: 05-03-2006
Member Rating: 1.8


Message 592 of 610 (860818)
08-12-2019 11:35 AM
Reply to: Message 589 by Theodoric
08-12-2019 8:34 AM


Re: The Nazis Are Coming.
You speak as if Harris and Gabbard are some sort of liberal stalwarts. That you think they are liberals shows how far right you are.

Either it proves how far right I am or this witch hunt how proves how Far Left you and the fanboy echo chamber are. I was called Alt-Right by AZPaul because of the videos I posted. The last videos I recall posting were that of Sam Harris and other self-identified liberals and two liberal YouTube channel hosts (Jimmy Dore and Kyle Kuklinski) critical of how Tulsi Gabbard, running for the Democratic Party, hasn't had a fair shake by mainstream media. But I'm continued to be called Alt-Right. You'd think I was posting videos of Richard Spencer by the criticisms I've received.

Both of them have some liberal stances, but this just shows that people are not easily pigeon holed and no two people have the exact same beliefs.

Then why pigeon hole me if you recognize how nuanced personal beliefs can be? I'm not even referred to as Alt-Lite, which I would still disagree with, but at least would be a more accurate portrayal than some idiot throwing Heil Hitler salutes around. I have views that overlap with beliefs shared by the Right and the Left, again, depending on the topic. And I only retain those beliefs because they make rational sense to me. I am capable of free thought that extends beyond a political movement. I don't cues from movements or groupthink.


"Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine

This message is a reply to:
 Message 589 by Theodoric, posted 08-12-2019 8:34 AM Theodoric has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 594 by Theodoric, posted 08-12-2019 11:59 AM Hyroglyphx has responded

    
Hyroglyphx
Member
Posts: 5781
From: Austin, TX
Joined: 05-03-2006
Member Rating: 1.8


Message 593 of 610 (860820)
08-12-2019 11:41 AM
Reply to: Message 591 by Chiroptera
08-12-2019 11:29 AM


Re: The global tentacles of white nationalism
Earlier in this thread, I was explaining how Trump's comments to Elijah Cummings is oldfashioned racist, and it needs to be confronted.
You, if I'm interpreting you correctly, were saying Trump's comments aren't racist.

What would be "the middle" position on this?

That criticisms of what a black person said is not the same as criticisms of a black person because they're black.

As I've said, repeatedly, this isn't a a defense of Trump. It is a criticism that identity politics is going too far.


"Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine

This message is a reply to:
 Message 591 by Chiroptera, posted 08-12-2019 11:29 AM Chiroptera has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 599 by Chiroptera, posted 08-12-2019 6:09 PM Hyroglyphx has not yet responded

    
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 6485
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.4


(1)
Message 594 of 610 (860824)
08-12-2019 11:59 AM
Reply to: Message 592 by Hyroglyphx
08-12-2019 11:35 AM


Maybe you should address responses to assertions you have made
I was called Alt-Right by AZPaul because of the videos I posted.

But that isn't what AZPaul said is it?
Let's look at what he actually said.
AZPaul writes:

Pervasive enough they have you posting their propaganda pieces here at EvC ... twice.
And we're small stuff compared to the rest of the internet. That's quite a reach.


Message 568
He made no mention that it was the Sam Harris or Tulsi Gabbard videos, or that it was videos at all. This seems to be another attempt by you to build a strawman. You have a tendency to make assertions and then when you are questioned on them you build strawman arguments and then quit responding when you are shown facts that do not support your right wing talking points.

Maybe you should ask AZPaul what the propaganda pieces are. I have a good idea but I may have different things in mind than he does. A number of us are waiting for reply's from you on a number of things you have asserted.


Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 592 by Hyroglyphx, posted 08-12-2019 11:35 AM Hyroglyphx has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 595 by AZPaul3, posted 08-12-2019 12:33 PM Theodoric has responded
 Message 597 by Hyroglyphx, posted 08-12-2019 3:04 PM Theodoric has responded

    
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 4380
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 595 of 610 (860835)
08-12-2019 12:33 PM
Reply to: Message 594 by Theodoric
08-12-2019 11:59 AM


Re: Maybe you should address responses to assertions you have made
Maybe you should ask AZPaul what the propaganda pieces are.

Since I'm lazy I'll do just the one.

Message 105

The link was altered within the YouTube but here it is direct from YouTube:

Welcome to Sweden

Edited by AZPaul3, : No reason given.


Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 594 by Theodoric, posted 08-12-2019 11:59 AM Theodoric has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 596 by Theodoric, posted 08-12-2019 2:56 PM AZPaul3 has acknowledged this reply

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 6485
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.4


Message 596 of 610 (860851)
08-12-2019 2:56 PM
Reply to: Message 595 by AZPaul3
08-12-2019 12:33 PM


Re: Maybe you should address responses to assertions you have made
That was one of the examples of where he tried a few straw man arguments and then just quit responding. That is one of the many arguments that he has had where he just presented assertions and propaganda and never backed it up with facts.

He gave up on the Seattle is Dying crap after I showed his sources were biased and right wing propaganda outfits. The actual data did not support his claims. If he had data to support him, I would think he would present it. Also, I am still waiting for his solution to the homeless crisis. He harshly condemns how the homeless crisis is being handled in Austin, but never provided any sources for the claims he made and when I showed that Austin was aware that things needed improvement and were working for this there was no response. I asked what his solution for the issue was. I guess attacking is in his playbook, but trying to resolve issues is beyond his interests.


Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 595 by AZPaul3, posted 08-12-2019 12:33 PM AZPaul3 has acknowledged this reply

    
Hyroglyphx
Member
Posts: 5781
From: Austin, TX
Joined: 05-03-2006
Member Rating: 1.8


Message 597 of 610 (860852)
08-12-2019 3:04 PM
Reply to: Message 594 by Theodoric
08-12-2019 11:59 AM


Re: Maybe you should address responses to assertions you have made
He made no mention that it was the Sam Harris or Tulsi Gabbard videos, or that it was videos at all.

He said I'm Alt-Right based on the videos that I post and that was all he said. I pointed out that the last videos I recall embedding were of Sam Harris and Tulsi Gabbard -- not exactly hardline, rightwing apologists. I see, after the fact, that he is now specifically talking about a "Welcome To Sweden" video, which was not mentioned and which was uploaded like a month ago... so how am I supposed to interpret "videos that *YOU* post" when I post a lot of videos? And to clarify, I still think the Welcome to Sweden video is comedic and makes salient points. I have no idea if that guy is or is not Alt-Right. I just know that I'm not. But if calling me Alt-Right makes you feel better then whatever. I'm not gonna argue the point anymore.

This seems to be another attempt by you to build a strawman. You have a tendency to make assertions and then when you are questioned on them you build strawman arguments and then quit responding when you are shown facts that do not support your right wing talking points. Maybe you should ask AZPaul what the propaganda pieces are. I have a good idea but I may have different things in mind than he does. A number of us are waiting for reply's from you on a number of things you have asserted.

First of all, that's a matter of your interpretation. Imagine that that its unflattering towards me. Secondly, if there are reply's waiting for me, its usually because there is a never-ending stream. The email associated to my account is closed and has been for like 5 years, so unlike many of you, I don't receive any receipt of notification for replied messages. I just log on to EvC from time to time and see what is being discussed in a general sense and if it intrigues me, I'll chime in. But even if I did receive notifications, anything I post usually gets the dog pile. For every post I make I usually have 3-4 replies per post and I almost never have time during my work week to log in. And there are also multiple responses on different threads. Keeping track of what with whom can sometimes be difficult.

Edited by Hyroglyphx, : No reason given.


"Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine

This message is a reply to:
 Message 594 by Theodoric, posted 08-12-2019 11:59 AM Theodoric has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 598 by Theodoric, posted 08-12-2019 3:43 PM Hyroglyphx has responded

    
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 6485
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.4


Message 598 of 610 (860854)
08-12-2019 3:43 PM
Reply to: Message 597 by Hyroglyphx
08-12-2019 3:04 PM


Re: Maybe you should address responses to assertions you have made
and makes salient points

But everything you presented was shown to not be true. Just because a point is salient does not make it true. All it means is that it is important in someone's eyes. What you attempted to present as evidence for these "salient" points, it was shown not to support your claims at all.
You presented an Amnesty International report as evidence to support this assertion.
Hyroglyphx writes:

In many instances the refugees they took in are not only refusing to assimilate, increasing crime to unprecedented levels, but is changing the landscape of Swedish culture and making it resemble the failed state they're escaping from. They're also so terrified of being viewed as racists that the government in many instances buries reports of rape.


When in fact the Amnesty International report makes absolutely no mention of immigrants or even religion. As a matter of fact the report makes it clear that this has been a long time issue in Nordic countries, prior to the current influx of refugees and immigrants. It is a home grown problem, people like you want to foist on brown people. Maybe you should actually read the report you wanted to use to support your right wing ****.
Here is the report. Care to show me how you got "the immigrants did it" from this report?
https://www.amnesty.org/...cuments/36000/act770012010eng.pdf

Edited by Theodoric, : No reason given.


Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 597 by Hyroglyphx, posted 08-12-2019 3:04 PM Hyroglyphx has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 600 by Hyroglyphx, posted 08-13-2019 10:25 AM Theodoric has responded

    
Chiroptera
Member
Posts: 6761
From: Oklahoma
Joined: 09-28-2003
Member Rating: 5.4


Message 599 of 610 (860872)
08-12-2019 6:09 PM
Reply to: Message 593 by Hyroglyphx
08-12-2019 11:41 AM


Re: The global tentacles of white nationalism
What would be "the middle" position on this?

That criticisms of what a black person said is not the same as criticisms of a black person because they're black.

In this case, Trump made no criticisms of anything Cummings said whatsoever. He was telling Cummings to stop bothering him.

I would agree that it's not necessarily racist to rudely tell a blackman to quit bothering him. That would depend on the choice of words. In this case, the choice was clearly racist.

You claim it's not.

Is there a middle ground here we can reach?


It says something about the qualities of our current president that the best argument anyone has made in his defense is that he didn't know what he was talking about. -- Paul Krugman

This message is a reply to:
 Message 593 by Hyroglyphx, posted 08-12-2019 11:41 AM Hyroglyphx has not yet responded

  
Hyroglyphx
Member
Posts: 5781
From: Austin, TX
Joined: 05-03-2006
Member Rating: 1.8


(1)
Message 600 of 610 (860908)
08-13-2019 10:25 AM
Reply to: Message 598 by Theodoric
08-12-2019 3:43 PM


Re: Maybe you should address responses to assertions you have made
When in fact the Amnesty International report makes absolutely no mention of immigrants or even religion. As a matter of fact the report makes it clear that this has been a long time issue in Nordic countries, prior to the current influx of refugees and immigrants. It is a home grown problem, people like you want to foist on brown people. Maybe you should actually read the report you wanted to use to support your right wing ****.

The data represents a clear parallel between immigrants of Middle-Eastern and North African (MENA) descent and a rise in crime ranging from theft to sexual assaults that is disproportionate when compared to previous years of less immigration and when compared to native-born Scandinavians. There's two obvious ways one can view this: Either on racial lines, as you've chosen to do, or along cultural lines, as most everyone else has chosen to do. Its not a new concept that MENA countries have a different view than Nordic countries as it relates to women's rights. Are you really going to argue the fact that MENA countries are, in general, far more supportive of patriarchal beliefs when compared to Western Civilization? Women beaten, women raped, women treated as chattel, women being subservient to men, women existing as human incubators? This is because this isn't merely being done to women after moving to Norway or Sweden. This is the state of affairs for women living in Afghanistan, Morocco, Tunisia, Somalia, Yemen, etc. Are you really going to pretend that these poor nations, clinging to traditional, Islamic social mores are integrating well into Western Civilization?

Again, we can view this from a racial perspective versus a cultural one. The greater the generational divide (1st, 2nd, 3rd or 4th generations) the greater the assimilation process becomes. Generally by the 3rd generation is a near total assimilation with the host countries societal norms and that are reflective of the same rates as natives of the country. That's just common sense. If I moved to Japan, I might have boorish, American qualities that I brought with me because I don't understand as well as native-born Japanese about how to conduct myself in that country. But my children will be more integrated than I am. And my grandchildren will be essentially as Japanese as the Japanese. The same thing is unsurprisingly happening in Nordic countries presently with an influx of MENA immigrants.

We all know this is a question of cultural influence, but you choose to frame it racially in a poor attempt to poison the well.


"Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine

This message is a reply to:
 Message 598 by Theodoric, posted 08-12-2019 3:43 PM Theodoric has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 601 by Theodoric, posted 08-13-2019 12:46 PM Hyroglyphx has not yet responded
 Message 602 by Theodoric, posted 08-13-2019 1:02 PM Hyroglyphx has responded

    
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