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Author Topic:   Conservative Racism
Faith
Member
Posts: 32954
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 826 of 919 (862491)
09-05-2019 2:23 PM
Reply to: Message 825 by JonF
09-05-2019 1:51 PM


Re: Obama was the pawn of Communist political engineers
Facts

Grandmother in Kenya says quite clearly that she was present at Obama's birth
Silence on the phone follows
Silence is followed by "correction" emphatically and repeatedly stating that he was born in America

I remember looking at some kind of birth certificate about ten years ago that had some different type faces on it and something odd about the name. The one presented here recently was a different document.

Postman says
He was told by Mrs. Ayers they had a foreign student living with them
He then met the student, he had no doubt it was the student, a black student from Africa
He didn't remember his name
But he remembered his saying he was going to be the US President which stuck in his mind

Obama was raised in a Communist family
He was close to the known Leftist terrorist activist Ayers and his wife

He went to a "church" where the "pastor" preached on how evil America is rather than on the saving work of Jesus Christ

He was always putting down America to foreign leaders and bowing to Arab/Muslim leaders

I'm told his school records are available to subpoena. I'd suppose there would have to be some legal reason to subpoena them? Somebody should do that if possible, to prove that he was or wasn't a foreign student. However, knowing how Communism works I don't think we could be sure those weren't forgeries too.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 825 by JonF, posted 09-05-2019 1:51 PM JonF has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 830 by JonF, posted 09-05-2019 2:57 PM Faith has not yet responded

    
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 4512
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 4.2


(1)
Message 827 of 919 (862492)
09-05-2019 2:27 PM
Reply to: Message 819 by Faith
09-05-2019 1:33 PM


Re: Obama was the pawn of Communist political engineers
Wonderful how little you care about facts and arguments in your typical Leftist PC zeal to kill the opponent with smears and lies.

No smears or lies. Only facts. You admitted you were hating on Obama for no practical reason. You were just "convinced".

You can't let go because ... well ... hate.

That level of pathological dementia is ubiquitous on the right.

It is evil.


Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 819 by Faith, posted 09-05-2019 1:33 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 828 by Faith, posted 09-05-2019 2:37 PM AZPaul3 has acknowledged this reply

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 32954
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 828 of 919 (862494)
09-05-2019 2:37 PM
Reply to: Message 827 by AZPaul3
09-05-2019 2:27 PM


Re: Obama was the pawn of Communist political engineers
So you repeat the PC lies and smear. You are making up the "hate" since I've expressed no hate whatever, and show your own hate for me and my conservative views in that and your other terms.

I hope the truth all comes out soon.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 827 by AZPaul3, posted 09-05-2019 2:27 PM AZPaul3 has acknowledged this reply

    
dwise1
Member
Posts: 3712
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 4.6


Message 829 of 919 (862495)
09-05-2019 2:54 PM
Reply to: Message 781 by JonF
09-04-2019 12:32 PM


Re: I forgot about Snopes
There is the pathetically obviously fake Kenyan birth certificate.

I remember seeing it. Such poor quality that it was barely readable. As I recall, I couldn't make out the date on it. If I could have read the date, I wouldn't be surprised to find that it was from 1936, which is when President Obama's father, Barack Obama, was born in Kenya.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 781 by JonF, posted 09-04-2019 12:32 PM JonF has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 831 by Theodoric, posted 09-05-2019 3:19 PM dwise1 has responded
 Message 835 by Faith, posted 09-05-2019 8:24 PM dwise1 has responded

    
JonF
Member
Posts: 5473
Joined: 06-23-2003
Member Rating: 3.0


Message 830 of 919 (862497)
09-05-2019 2:57 PM
Reply to: Message 826 by Faith
09-05-2019 2:23 PM


Re: Obama was the pawn of Communist political engineers
Grandmother in Kenya says quite clearly that she was present at Obama's birth
Silence on the phone follows
Silence is followed by "correction" emphatically and repeatedly stating that he was born in America

Yes. There's no evidence for any reason she did that. It's equally possible that someone (inaudibly) said "they mean your grandson, not your son". Or any other scenario. At best extremely weak circumstantial evidence.

I remember looking at some kind of birth certificate about ten years ago that had some different type faces on it and something odd about the name. The one presented here recently was a different document.

The one presented here is the one and only official long form birth certificate. Unless you can produce this alleged other document your memory means nothing relative to the question of citizenship. I note you have made no attempt to discredit the contents of the one presented here.

Postman says
He was told by Mrs. Ayers they had a foreign student living with them
He then met the student, he had no doubt it was the student, a black student from Africa
He didn't remember his name
But he remembered his saying he was going to be the US President which stuck in his mind

Only the most tenuous of links to Obama. No other record him being there at that time. I can easily conceive of more than one African exchange student intending to be President. Whomever he talked to should have been aware of his eligibility, which you are arguing made his hope impossible. Very very weak evidence.

Obama was raised in a Communist family
He was close to the known Leftist terrorist activist Ayers and his wife

He went to a "church" where the "pastor" preached on how evil America is rather than on the saving work of Jesus Christ

He was always putting down America to foreign leaders and bowing to Arab/Muslim leaders


All irrelevant to his citizenship. Mostly bullshit, of course.

So, two very weak pieces of evidence. That sure is a lot.

ABE Almost forgot the non-circumstantial birth certificate, ironclad evidence against your claim.

I'm some legal reason to subpoena them? Somebody should do that if possible, to prove that he was or wasn't a foreign student. However, knowing how Communism works I don't think we could be sure those weren't forgeries too.

Yes, you'd need a subpoena. Hardly worth the effort, though.

  • Your "evidence" (and all the right-wing's alleged evidence) is far short of what you need to get a subpoena. You'd be laughed out of court.
  • Even if you did find a judge that would give you a subpoena, you've just told us that the time would be wasted. When the records are totally innocuous you and your ilk will cry "commies switched the records!" or some equally loony excuse, and after a few bounces around the right-wing bubble it will be hailed as received Truth.

Edited by JonF, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 826 by Faith, posted 09-05-2019 2:23 PM Faith has not yet responded

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 6592
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 4.1


(1)
Message 831 of 919 (862500)
09-05-2019 3:19 PM
Reply to: Message 829 by dwise1
09-05-2019 2:54 PM


Kenyan birth certificate
The forgery is laughable.

This is my favorite part.

quote:
The document is dated 17 February 1964 and a bears a legend identifying it as having been issued by the “Republic of Kenya,” but Kenya (a former British colony) didn’t officially adopt that name until 12 December 1964. In February 1964, it was known as the Dominion of Kenya.

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/kenyan-mistake/

The evidence shows that he is actually an alien.


Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 829 by dwise1, posted 09-05-2019 2:54 PM dwise1 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 837 by dwise1, posted 09-05-2019 9:13 PM Theodoric has not yet responded

    
dwise1
Member
Posts: 3712
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 4.6


Message 832 of 919 (862503)
09-05-2019 3:39 PM
Reply to: Message 809 by Faith
09-05-2019 1:01 PM


Re: Obama was the pawn of Communist political engineers
Perhaps you and PaulK and AZPaul and dwise could get jobs with Putin, or the Chinese Communists.

I thought I've made it quite clear. I am an American, have served my country with 35 years of military service, and have sworn an oath at least seven times to protect and defend the Constitution of the United States of America against all enemies foreign and domestic (that includes Trump) and I take that oath very seriously.

There is no way I could ever become a traitorous Republican and join your vile traitorous ilk!

Good work of attacking the raiser of inconvenient questions.

No, you are describing yourself.

I keep raising that simple inconvenient question which absolutely terrifies you:

What significance are you attaching to the question of where President Obama was born? What do you think the consequences of that birthplace are?

My question in its original form from my Message 694:

DWise1 writes:

What possible importance could you attach to the question of whether Obama was born in an US state (or territory, as in Goldwater's and McCain's cases) or not? You cleave so tightly to your false Kenya-birth claim that it appears that you believe it to be very important. What exactly is that importance supposed to be?

That question absolutely terrifies you. Why? Are you trying to cover something up? What would that be?

In an ABE to my Message 792, I suggested that you're just being a typical creationist posting claims that you do not understand and hence are incapable of discussing them so you turn to bluffing and worse in order to avoid all attempts to discuss them with you.

Here is that ABE again:

DWise1 writes:

{ABE:


Another explanation of Faith's frantic avoidance of explaining her position could be that she has no idea what it is about. We have seen this situation play out over and over again over the decades when dealing with creationists on-line. All they know is how to repeat their claims, but they don't understand those claims. So when you ask them questions or try to discuss their own claims with them, they cannot do since they don't know anything about their claims except how to repeat them. So they try to bluff their way out in order to avoid discussion. The more you try to press them for discussion, the more drastic measures they take, from trying to change the subject to falsely claiming to take offense to becoming increasingly unpleasant in order to chase you off. Finally, they just run away.

That looks very much like what Faith has been doing. The question in question is why this birther claim is supposed to matter. Answering that question would require her to be able to connect the dots from her claim to her conclusion (which itself is mostly just implied). Clearly, she cannot do that, so she tries to bluff, deflect and divert, and finally she just runs away. That would support the conclusion that, in typical creationist fashion, she does not understand her own claim but won't admit it. All she knows is how to make the claim and what the conclusion is supposed to be, but she has no idea how to get from the claim to the conclusion. The problem for her is the fact that there is no way to get from her claim to her conclusion (much of which we have to assume since it is mostly just implied, which is also typical of so many aspects of creationist claims).

}

Cut your BS and just engage in honest discussion. If you don't know what you're talking about, then just admit it.

Don't be like Trump who just violated yet another federal law by falsifying a weather map (with a Sharpee, his weapon of choice) in order to over up his stiupid mistake about Alabama being in the path of Dorian and his false weather warning to that state (another violation of that same law), all because his pathetic ego won't let him ever admit to being wrong about anything. Is that your problem too?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 809 by Faith, posted 09-05-2019 1:01 PM Faith has not yet responded

    
dwise1
Member
Posts: 3712
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 4.6


Message 833 of 919 (862504)
09-05-2019 3:43 PM
Reply to: Message 817 by ringo
09-05-2019 1:27 PM


Re: I forgot about Snopes
You seem to forget that Putin is Trump's boyfriend.

And given how Trump is always signalling his submissiveness when they're together, we all know which one is the "flower" (term learned from the film, The Boston Strangler (1968)).


This message is a reply to:
 Message 817 by ringo, posted 09-05-2019 1:27 PM ringo has acknowledged this reply

    
dwise1
Member
Posts: 3712
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 4.6


Message 834 of 919 (862505)
09-05-2019 3:48 PM
Reply to: Message 823 by Faith
09-05-2019 1:39 PM


Re: Obama was the pawn of Communist political engineers
The evidence is circumstantial but there's a lot of it.

I'm reminded of a response to a similar creationist boast that each little bit of "evidence" may be nothing, but he has millions of those little bits that all add up:

quote:
Response: "Zero times a million equals zero."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 823 by Faith, posted 09-05-2019 1:39 PM Faith has not yet responded

    
Faith
Member
Posts: 32954
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 835 of 919 (862514)
09-05-2019 8:24 PM
Reply to: Message 829 by dwise1
09-05-2019 2:54 PM


Re: I forgot about Snopes
I never saw any Kenyan birth certificate. I remember a Hawaiian birth certificate that was different from the one shown in this thread.

The grandmother's first statement on the phone and the Postman's memory are the best evidence.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 829 by dwise1, posted 09-05-2019 2:54 PM dwise1 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 836 by dwise1, posted 09-05-2019 9:10 PM Faith has not yet responded
 Message 838 by Faith, posted 09-05-2019 9:17 PM Faith has not yet responded
 Message 840 by PaulK, posted 09-06-2019 12:21 AM Faith has responded
 Message 845 by JonF, posted 09-06-2019 9:26 AM Faith has not yet responded

    
dwise1
Member
Posts: 3712
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 4.6


Message 836 of 919 (862517)
09-05-2019 9:10 PM
Reply to: Message 835 by Faith
09-05-2019 8:24 PM


Re: I forgot about Snopes
The grandmother's first statement on the phone and the Postman's memory are the best evidence.

Evidence of what? With what consequences? And of what possible significance?

IOW, just what the hell are you talking about?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 835 by Faith, posted 09-05-2019 8:24 PM Faith has not yet responded

    
dwise1
Member
Posts: 3712
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 4.6


(1)
Message 837 of 919 (862518)
09-05-2019 9:13 PM
Reply to: Message 831 by Theodoric
09-05-2019 3:19 PM


Re: Kenyan birth certificate
That fake "Kenyan" document is not what I remember. What I saw was a very grainy and poor quality "copy".

I'm still waiting for a zoo vet's certification that Trump's father wasn't an orangutan. The resemblance is just too uncanny.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 831 by Theodoric, posted 09-05-2019 3:19 PM Theodoric has not yet responded

    
Faith
Member
Posts: 32954
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 838 of 919 (862519)
09-05-2019 9:17 PM
Reply to: Message 835 by Faith
09-05-2019 8:24 PM


the birth certificates
I was hoping to find that maybe i'd posted that other birth certificate I remember, but didn't find it. Did at least find another discussion of all this a few years ago, and I see that I mentioned some other pieces of evidence in Message 1454.

Maybe I posted the certificate on one of my blogs. I'll look.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 835 by Faith, posted 09-05-2019 8:24 PM Faith has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
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Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 2316
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 7.9


(3)
Message 839 of 919 (862520)
09-05-2019 9:40 PM


Who the fuck cares?

What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


    
PaulK
Member
Posts: 15395
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 3.3


(1)
Message 840 of 919 (862523)
09-06-2019 12:21 AM
Reply to: Message 835 by Faith
09-05-2019 8:24 PM


Re: I forgot about Snopes
quote:
The grandmother's first statement on the phone and the Postman's memory are the best evidence.

Neither of which are at all good.

The postman’s memory is especially bad. You need Obama somehow to be a “foreign student”, but it’s secret, but Mary Ayers goes and blabs it to a postman. None of which makes the least bit of sense. Even Obama visiting the Ayers as a student makes little sense - there is no other evidence of any association while he was a student, and even if you assume that there was a secret association why the public visit ?

A far more likely explanation is that the postman’s identification - made long after the meeting - was mistaken. Indeed, he could easily have been mistaken about Mary Ayer’s saying that the man was a foreign student. Either error sinks your case, and both errors are entirely plausible - which is more than can be said for your ideas.

That you put this forward as the “best evidence” just shows how crazy this birther nonsense really is.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 835 by Faith, posted 09-05-2019 8:24 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 841 by Faith, posted 09-06-2019 3:32 AM PaulK has responded

    
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