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Author Topic:   A test for claimed knowledge of how macroevolution occurs
Sarah Bellum
Member
Posts: 506
Joined: 05-04-2019


(1)
Message 349 of 785 (855347)
06-18-2019 6:13 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Dredge
06-11-2019 2:51 AM


It appears that the original post of this thread says that something known to science isn't "really" known unless humans can duplicate it on a lab bench.

So things like plate tectonics and supernovae aren't really "scientific knowledge"?


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Sarah Bellum
Member
Posts: 506
Joined: 05-04-2019


Message 525 of 785 (856128)
06-27-2019 11:10 AM
Reply to: Message 498 by Faith
06-25-2019 5:31 PM


Re: The genetic loss idée fixe vs reality
Loss? But we've seen gains. Consider the development by early humans of new species of wheat.
quote:

Varieties of wheat that have forty-two chromosomes are the most recently evolved and most used types of wheat. All of these varieties have been cultivated by humans (as opposed to growing wild). They are hybrids of twenty-eight-chromosome wheats and wild fourteen-chromosome wheats or grasses. Early bread wheat was the result of the crossing of goat grass (Aegilops tauschii ) with Triticum turgidum. Modern bread wheat varieties have forty-two chromosomes and evolved from crosses between emmer and goat grass, which is the source of the unique glutenin genes that give bread dough the ability to form gluten. Goat grass grows abundantly in the region stretching from Greece to Afghanistan. Descriptions of the fourteen species of wheat that yield the thousands of wheat varieties grown today are provided here.

http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1G2-3403400609.html


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 Message 498 by Faith, posted 06-25-2019 5:31 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 526 by Faith, posted 06-27-2019 5:19 PM Sarah Bellum has responded

  
Sarah Bellum
Member
Posts: 506
Joined: 05-04-2019


Message 546 of 785 (856185)
06-28-2019 11:15 AM
Reply to: Message 526 by Faith
06-27-2019 5:19 PM


Re: Genetic loss is a necessity
But clearly much has been gained, and not just by "hybridization"! The wheat that is cultivated nowadays is substantially different than the types of grain that grew before humans began farming.

I was expecting you to say that since this is all a result of interference by an intelligent agency (humans) that doesn't prove that evolution happens naturally, without interference by an intelligent agency.

But of course new species have been observed to evolve, so ...


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Sarah Bellum
Member
Posts: 506
Joined: 05-04-2019


Message 635 of 785 (856636)
07-01-2019 11:29 PM
Reply to: Message 632 by Faith
07-01-2019 6:01 PM


Re: The genetic loss idée fixe vs reality
But since the living organisms on the earth nowadays are different from those on the earth millions of years ago and the only way for mammals to produce more mammals is to give birth to them (similar arguments apply to creatures that hatch, spawn, etc.), some significant changes must have occurred during that lineal descent.

Unless you think lots and lots of miraculous creations happened instead of ordinary births...


This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
 Message 636 by Faith, posted 07-02-2019 4:42 AM Sarah Bellum has responded

  
Sarah Bellum
Member
Posts: 506
Joined: 05-04-2019


Message 644 of 785 (856750)
07-02-2019 4:53 PM
Reply to: Message 636 by Faith
07-02-2019 4:42 AM


Re: The genetic loss idée fixe vs reality
But an earth only a few thousand years old has so many logical inconsistencies (How long did it take the Colorado River to carve out the Grand Canyon? How long did it take for coral reefs to form? How can we see galaxies that are millions of light years away? etc.) that it's not a falsifiable concept.

And the Flood? How did the koalas get to Australia from Mount Ararat after the Flood?

Wait a minute . . . how did the koalas get from Australia to board Noah's Ark in the first place?


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Replies to this message:
 Message 645 by Faith, posted 07-02-2019 11:35 PM Sarah Bellum has responded
 Message 690 by Percy, posted 07-04-2019 12:12 PM Sarah Bellum has acknowledged this reply

  
Sarah Bellum
Member
Posts: 506
Joined: 05-04-2019


Message 671 of 785 (856894)
07-03-2019 10:49 PM
Reply to: Message 645 by Faith
07-02-2019 11:35 PM


Re: The genetic loss idée fixe vs reality
But if all those geological strata with all those fossils were laid down by the Flood, how can you also claim those same waters cut through those carefully laid strata to form the Grand Canyon at the same time?

And if those swirling waters were sufficient to cut away all that rock, why wouldn't they scour the coral reefs bare?

And if they didn't scour the coral reefs bare, weren't the flood waters supposed to deposit (carefully, in perfect order) all those millions of years of sedimentary layers on top of that coral?


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Sarah Bellum
Member
Posts: 506
Joined: 05-04-2019


Message 673 of 785 (856897)
07-03-2019 11:37 PM
Reply to: Message 672 by Faith
07-03-2019 11:15 PM


Re: Flood stuff
But how could the same waters that laid down the strata, supposedly uniformly, then wash away specific areas of the canyon so non-uniformly?

As for the coral, the flood waters either scoured them away (a much easier task than carving out the Grand Canyon) or the flood waters buried the coral deep under sediment, killing it (or both). Remember Gen 7:4 "every living substance that I have made will I destroy from off the face of the earth."


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Replies to this message:
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Sarah Bellum
Member
Posts: 506
Joined: 05-04-2019


Message 696 of 785 (857018)
07-04-2019 10:36 PM
Reply to: Message 674 by Faith
07-04-2019 12:02 AM


Re: Flood stuff
The idea of the Flood laying down geological strata was debunked long ago. To take just one example, fossils are sorted by time period: earlier organisms at lower levels. A flood would have jumbled everything up, humans with trilobites and dinosaurs with dogs, etc.

The idea of the Grand Canyon being carved by a massive flood was debunked long ago: it is, for instance a deep, meandering riverbed, not a wide, shallow, direct path.

As for the corals, how could they have survived being buried under all that sediment? Since they didn't survive, we wouldn't see any reefs nowadays. Even if Noah had brought along some coral larvae and released them after the flood, how could they have grown to the depth and worldwide extent that we see today?


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Replies to this message:
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 Message 698 by AZPaul3, posted 07-05-2019 12:06 AM Sarah Bellum has responded

  
Sarah Bellum
Member
Posts: 506
Joined: 05-04-2019


Message 699 of 785 (857031)
07-05-2019 12:35 AM
Reply to: Message 697 by Faith
07-04-2019 11:21 PM


Re: Flood stuff
You say, "somehow they got sorted by the Flood." But that's not what happens in a flood, is it? On the other hand, accretion over millennia does lay down layers "sorted" in historical order. That's not even mentioning the lava flows that appear in between sedimentary layers. Hard for a flood to lay down lava.

And no, rushing flood waters would not have worn out a riverbed like that. "Upstream of the Grand Canyon, the San Juan River (around Gooseneck State Park, southeast Utah) has some of the most extreme meandering imaginable. The canyon is 1,000 feet high, with the river flowing five miles while progressing one mile as the crow flies (American Southwest n.d.). There is no way a single massive flood could carve this." - http://talkorigins.org/indexcc/CH/CH581.html


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Replies to this message:
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Sarah Bellum
Member
Posts: 506
Joined: 05-04-2019


(3)
Message 700 of 785 (857032)
07-05-2019 12:36 AM
Reply to: Message 698 by AZPaul3
07-05-2019 12:06 AM


Re: Flood stuff
I'm a black magic woman, but I don't believe in magic.

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Sarah Bellum
Member
Posts: 506
Joined: 05-04-2019


Message 709 of 785 (857074)
07-05-2019 9:41 AM
Reply to: Message 702 by Faith
07-05-2019 7:35 AM


Re: Flood stuff
I'll look for a flood thread and we can go there and you can explain how the Flood deposited deep layers of basalt (lava), then some sediment, then more recent lava flows and so on and so on.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 702 by Faith, posted 07-05-2019 7:35 AM Faith has not yet responded

  
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