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Author Topic:   A test for claimed knowledge of how macroevolution occurs
ringo
Member
Posts: 18798
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.1


(1)
Message 12 of 785 (854659)
06-11-2019 1:38 PM
Reply to: Message 11 by Faith
06-11-2019 1:31 PM


Faith writes:

Why can't you at least THINK about how any such random event could ever in a million years get selected toward some organized new phenotype?


You're looking at it wrong. The DNA is already organized. Mutation is just a re- organization.

You're asking the equivalent of, "How can the letters in a sentence be re-arranged to form a different sentence?" Very easily. Very naturally.


All that are in Hell, choose it. -- CS Lewis
That's just egregiously stupid. -- ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 11 by Faith, posted 06-11-2019 1:31 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 13 by Faith, posted 06-11-2019 1:42 PM ringo has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 18798
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.1


Message 14 of 785 (854662)
06-11-2019 1:50 PM
Reply to: Message 13 by Faith
06-11-2019 1:42 PM


Faith writes:

... most of them get selected out....


And some of them don't. Unless you can guarantee that EVERY mutation will be selected out - and of course you can't - you can't prevent evolution.

All that are in Hell, choose it. -- CS Lewis
That's just egregiously stupid. -- ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 13 by Faith, posted 06-11-2019 1:42 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 15 by Faith, posted 06-11-2019 1:58 PM ringo has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 18798
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.1


Message 16 of 785 (854666)
06-11-2019 2:05 PM
Reply to: Message 15 by Faith
06-11-2019 1:58 PM


Faith writes:

All that's ever going to be selected is a variation on the given genome, you are never going to get changes to the genome....


A variation in the genome IS a change in the genome.

All that are in Hell, choose it. -- CS Lewis
That's just egregiously stupid. -- ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 15 by Faith, posted 06-11-2019 1:58 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 17 by Faith, posted 06-11-2019 2:22 PM ringo has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 18798
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.1


Message 18 of 785 (854672)
06-11-2019 2:26 PM
Reply to: Message 17 by Faith
06-11-2019 2:22 PM


Faith writes:

Nope


Yup.

All that are in Hell, choose it. -- CS Lewis
That's just egregiously stupid. -- ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 17 by Faith, posted 06-11-2019 2:22 PM Faith has not yet responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 18798
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.1


(1)
Message 101 of 785 (854832)
06-13-2019 11:57 AM
Reply to: Message 88 by Dredge
06-13-2019 1:35 AM


Dredge writes:

... I fail to see what any of this this has to do breeding ancient rodents to eventually produce a whale.


It's actually a triple play: rodent to ungulate to whale.

The problem with trying to breed that change is that we don't know all of the steps along the way. If you walk from New York to San Francisco, we know you stopped at Detroit and Chicago and St. Louis and Denver because we have time-stamped pictures of you in each of those places. But we don't know the exact route that you took from New York to Detroit or from St. Louis to Denver, etc. We do know that you went from New York to San Francisco.


All that are in Hell, choose it. -- CS Lewis
That's just egregiously stupid. -- ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 88 by Dredge, posted 06-13-2019 1:35 AM Dredge has not yet responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 18798
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.1


Message 236 of 785 (855117)
06-16-2019 2:59 PM
Reply to: Message 226 by Faith
06-16-2019 2:31 PM


Re: Tracking the route of macroevolution
Faith writes:

... mutations are RANDOM and beneficial ones VERY RARE.


Do you understand the difference between "rare" and "non-existent"? You seem to keep saying that evolution by beneficial mutation is "impossible" when the truth is that even you understand that it's rare. I think everybody here agrees that it's rare but like lottery wins, it does happen..

All that are in Hell, choose it. -- CS Lewis
That's just egregiously stupid. -- ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 226 by Faith, posted 06-16-2019 2:31 PM Faith has not yet responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 18798
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.1


Message 298 of 785 (855227)
06-17-2019 6:22 PM
Reply to: Message 297 by Faith
06-17-2019 6:19 PM


Re: Tracking the route of macroevolution
So you haven't even looked at the evidence that was presented but you're perfectly ready to declare that there is none.

All that are in Hell, choose it. -- CS Lewis
That's just egregiously stupid. -- ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 297 by Faith, posted 06-17-2019 6:19 PM Faith has not yet responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 18798
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.1


(1)
Message 363 of 785 (855537)
06-20-2019 12:34 PM
Reply to: Message 359 by Faith
06-20-2019 12:22 PM


Faith writes:

Um, the creation model is all about genetic differences.


Creationism doesn't require genetics at all. For that matter, it doesn't even require biology.

I read a story once about a man who found a snake in his bathtub. Every time he got into the tub, the snake would be there but when he let the water out, it was gone. Finally, after many tries, he managed to catch it and kill it. When he took it to a lab to have it dissected, it had no internal organs, no internal structure at all.

It turned out that it was created by his imagination; since he didn't know anything about the internals of a snake, he couldn't imagine them or create them.

That's creationism all over - no need for internal organs at all. God did it.


All that are in Hell, choose it. -- CS Lewis
That's just egregiously stupid. -- ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 359 by Faith, posted 06-20-2019 12:22 PM Faith has not yet responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 18798
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.1


(1)
Message 392 of 785 (855671)
06-21-2019 12:12 PM
Reply to: Message 382 by Faith
06-20-2019 8:28 PM


Faith writes:

You keep saying "God did it" but I haven't said it at all....


It is interesting that you want to leave God out of creationism (and out of the Flood too, for that matter). But what's the point of your crank ideas if God and miracles are not involved?

All that are in Hell, choose it. -- CS Lewis
That's just egregiously stupid. -- ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 382 by Faith, posted 06-20-2019 8:28 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 393 by Faith, posted 06-21-2019 6:00 PM ringo has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 18798
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.1


(1)
Message 405 of 785 (855720)
06-22-2019 11:45 AM
Reply to: Message 393 by Faith
06-21-2019 6:00 PM


Faith writes:

Then it can be seen that it's based only on scientific facts and not crank ideas.


But you keep admiting that you can't explain the scientific facts. And now you're saying that you don't even have to explain the scientific facts. That's as unscientific as you could possibly get.

Faith writes:

But I also explained that the original Creation was God's doing. After that we work from what He made.


Why make that distinction? Why have God do the miracle of creation, then stop doing miracles, then at some later date presumably start doing miracles again?

Your attempts at "explanations" are laughably, pitifully bad, full of contradictions and ignorance. Why not just let your God do a miracle here or there?


All that are in Hell, choose it. -- CS Lewis
That's just egregiously stupid. -- ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 393 by Faith, posted 06-21-2019 6:00 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 407 by Faith, posted 06-22-2019 12:13 PM ringo has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 18798
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.1


(1)
Message 409 of 785 (855727)
06-22-2019 12:29 PM
Reply to: Message 407 by Faith
06-22-2019 12:13 PM


Faith writes:

You are terrifically confused, but aggressively sure you are right about what you're wrong about.


You are terrifically confused, but aggressively sure you are right about what you're wrong about.

Faith writes:

What you are calling the "scientific facts" I'm supposedly "admitting I can't explain" are what I've been saying are relevant to the ToE but not to Creationism.


The facts are relevant, period. If you have no explanation of the facts, you have no explanation. You can't just handwave away the facts that you can't explain.

Faith writes:

... AS I SAID, the discussion is about the natural phenomena that follow.


But it isn't, because you refuse to even try to explain the natural events.

Faith writes:

I understand that everybody's mind is so enveloped in evolutionism it's hard to think in creationism terms.


I, for one, know very little about evolution; I am certainly not "enveloped" in it. I'm more or less at the stage where Darwin was when he said to himself, "The Bible story doesn't explain this."

I criticize creationism on it's own lack of merit, not because I'm married to evolution. Creationists are the ones who are making the Bible story into a bigger mess than it needs to be.


All that are in Hell, choose it. -- CS Lewis
That's just egregiously stupid. -- ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 407 by Faith, posted 06-22-2019 12:13 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 410 by Faith, posted 06-22-2019 12:38 PM ringo has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 18798
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.1


(1)
Message 413 of 785 (855731)
06-22-2019 12:44 PM
Reply to: Message 410 by Faith
06-22-2019 12:38 PM


Faith writes:

No, "facts" that derive from, and are given in support of, the ToE...


Facts do not "derive from" the ToE. Facts are observations of reality.

Faith writes:

No, "facts" that derive from, and are given in support of, the ToE and are NOT relevant to the Creation model...


You have it backwards. If you your model can not explain the facts, it is your model that is irrelevant.

Faith writes:

No, "facts" that derive from, and are given in support of, the ToE and are NOT relevant to the Creation model are NOT facts I have to deal with.


You do if you want to be taken seriously scientifically.

With this latest tactic of yours, you are divorcing yourself entirely from any pretense of being scientific.


All that are in Hell, choose it. -- CS Lewis
That's just egregiously stupid. -- ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 410 by Faith, posted 06-22-2019 12:38 PM Faith has not yet responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 18798
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.1


Message 741 of 785 (857413)
07-08-2019 11:59 AM
Reply to: Message 739 by Faith
07-08-2019 11:36 AM


Re: Creationist mindset
Faith writes:

Having my thots treated as trash, even my most lengthy well thot out stuff, is supposed to be an incentive to "learn" according to all of you.


What would be an incentive for you to learn? Telling you you're right?

All that are in Hell, choose it. -- CS Lewis
That's just egregiously stupid. -- ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 739 by Faith, posted 07-08-2019 11:36 AM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 743 by edge, posted 07-08-2019 12:06 PM ringo has acknowledged this reply
 Message 744 by Faith, posted 07-08-2019 12:09 PM ringo has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 18798
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.1


Message 748 of 785 (857423)
07-08-2019 12:17 PM
Reply to: Message 744 by Faith
07-08-2019 12:09 PM


Re: Creationist mindset
Faith writes:

I don't ***** it's true that I "don't learn" and need to learn more...


Everybody needs to learn more. You, in particular, have admitted many times that there are questions you can't answer.

Faith writes:

I do learn all the time when I see that I need to take something into account that I've been missing.


Or you just don't respond. That's not a sign that you're learning anything.

All that are in Hell, choose it. -- CS Lewis
That's just egregiously stupid. -- ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 744 by Faith, posted 07-08-2019 12:09 PM Faith has not yet responded

  
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