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Author Topic:   A test for claimed knowledge of how macroevolution occurs
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 759 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 361 of 785 (855535)
06-20-2019 12:34 PM
Reply to: Message 360 by Taq
06-20-2019 12:31 PM


Re: How does the creationist model explain this?
Then why is 98% of the chimp genome identical to the human genome?

Similar design. AS I SAID.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 360 by Taq, posted 06-20-2019 12:31 PM Taq has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 364 by Taq, posted 06-20-2019 12:35 PM Faith has replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 8524
Joined: 03-06-2009


(1)
Message 362 of 785 (855536)
06-20-2019 12:34 PM
Reply to: Message 359 by Faith
06-20-2019 12:22 PM


Faith writes:

Um, the creation model is all about genetic differences. Chimp bodies and human bodies are identifiable by their genetic differences as well as by morphology. I keep trying to figure out your thinking but all I know is that you are so tightly bound up in the ToE you can't grasp what I'm saying no matter how I put it.

Then what does the creation model predict for the patterns in those diffeences, or does it make any prediction at all? For example:

1. What should the pattern of differences be for transitions, transversions, and CpG's?

2. What should the pattern of differences be for a comparison of introns and exons?

3. What should the pattern of differences be between different groups of species?

Can the creation model make any predictions with respect to those differences?

But creationism DOES explain what you see in genetics.

So can the separate creation of each creature explain it.

Then it should be able to answer those 3 questions above.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 359 by Faith, posted 06-20-2019 12:22 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 367 by Faith, posted 06-20-2019 12:40 PM Taq has replied
 Message 371 by JonF, posted 06-20-2019 1:30 PM Taq has replied

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 19745
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.8


(1)
Message 363 of 785 (855537)
06-20-2019 12:34 PM
Reply to: Message 359 by Faith
06-20-2019 12:22 PM


Faith writes:

Um, the creation model is all about genetic differences.


Creationism doesn't require genetics at all. For that matter, it doesn't even require biology.

I read a story once about a man who found a snake in his bathtub. Every time he got into the tub, the snake would be there but when he let the water out, it was gone. Finally, after many tries, he managed to catch it and kill it. When he took it to a lab to have it dissected, it had no internal organs, no internal structure at all.

It turned out that it was created by his imagination; since he didn't know anything about the internals of a snake, he couldn't imagine them or create them.

That's creationism all over - no need for internal organs at all. God did it.


All that are in Hell, choose it. -- CS Lewis
That's just egregiously stupid. -- ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 359 by Faith, posted 06-20-2019 12:22 PM Faith has not replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 8524
Joined: 03-06-2009


Message 364 of 785 (855538)
06-20-2019 12:35 PM
Reply to: Message 361 by Faith
06-20-2019 12:34 PM


Re: How does the creationist model explain this?
Faith writes:

Similar design. AS I SAID.

No, you said they were unique. Now you are saying they are similar designs. Which is it?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 361 by Faith, posted 06-20-2019 12:34 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 365 by Faith, posted 06-20-2019 12:38 PM Taq has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 759 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 365 of 785 (855539)
06-20-2019 12:38 PM
Reply to: Message 364 by Taq
06-20-2019 12:35 PM


Re: How does the creationist model explain this?
Unique designs can be similar. Why not?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 364 by Taq, posted 06-20-2019 12:35 PM Taq has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 366 by Taq, posted 06-20-2019 12:40 PM Faith has replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 8524
Joined: 03-06-2009


Message 366 of 785 (855540)
06-20-2019 12:40 PM
Reply to: Message 365 by Faith
06-20-2019 12:38 PM


Re: How does the creationist model explain this?
Faith writes:

Unique designs can be similar. Why not?

So did God start with a common design for all apes, and then change it a little bit for chimps, gorillas, orangutans, and humans? Why do chimps share more DNA with humans than they do with gorillas?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 365 by Faith, posted 06-20-2019 12:38 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 368 by Faith, posted 06-20-2019 12:52 PM Taq has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 759 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 367 of 785 (855541)
06-20-2019 12:40 PM
Reply to: Message 362 by Taq
06-20-2019 12:34 PM


Then what does the creation model predict for the patterns in those diffeences, or does it make any prediction at all? For example:

1. What should the pattern of differences be for transitions, transversions, and CpG's?
2. What should the pattern of differences be for a comparison of introns and exons?
3. What should the pattern of differences be between different groups of species?
Can the creation model make any predictions with respect to those differences?

There is no reason that I know of why the creation model should try to explain any of that. It's all an artifact of the ToE.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 362 by Taq, posted 06-20-2019 12:34 PM Taq has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 370 by Taq, posted 06-20-2019 1:01 PM Faith has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 759 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 368 of 785 (855543)
06-20-2019 12:52 PM
Reply to: Message 366 by Taq
06-20-2019 12:40 PM


Re: How does the creationist model explain this?
Unique designs can be similar. Why not?

So did God start with a common design for all apes, and then change it a little bit for chimps, gorillas, orangutans, and humans?

God didn't change ANYTHING, he designed a genome for each Kind. But the varieties contained in the genome for apes depends on whether all the different kinds of apes come from one common ancestor, or common ancestor pair, and I've wondered about that. Whatever the original genome for a Kind, all the variations were built into it so that they would descend from that one common ancestor, all the apes from the one ape Kind.

Same with cats, dogs, bears, mice, and any others that constitute a Kind.

But human beings aren't an ape and aren't related to apes. There was one common ancestor for human beings too, actually a common ancestor pair, the pair Adam and Eve, and all the races of human beings descended from them, the original genome they both possessed containing all the varieties possible. I saw a Mendelian square for how all the different skin colors were in the original human genome, Adam and Eve having a medium skin color but their genome containing every possible combination of skin colors, from darkest to lightest and different color tones as well. It should be the same for all the varieties of human characteristics.

Why do chimps share more DNA with humans than they do with gorillas?

Must be because the body design is more similar to the human body design.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 366 by Taq, posted 06-20-2019 12:40 PM Taq has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 369 by Taq, posted 06-20-2019 1:00 PM Faith has replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 8524
Joined: 03-06-2009


Message 369 of 785 (855544)
06-20-2019 1:00 PM
Reply to: Message 368 by Faith
06-20-2019 12:52 PM


Re: How does the creationist model explain this?
Faith writes:

God didn't change ANYTHING, he designed a genome for each Kind.

But you said they are a similar design, so wouldn't that mean the similar design was changed for each species?

Must be because the body design is more similar to the human body design.

Very little of a genome affects body design, so why are the parts not involved in body design also similar?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 368 by Faith, posted 06-20-2019 12:52 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 373 by Faith, posted 06-20-2019 1:36 PM Taq has replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 8524
Joined: 03-06-2009


Message 370 of 785 (855546)
06-20-2019 1:01 PM
Reply to: Message 367 by Faith
06-20-2019 12:40 PM


Faith writes:

There is no reason that I know of why the creation model should try to explain any of that. It's all an artifact of the ToE.

The patterns of differences are observable facts. Are you saying that the creation model can't explain these facts?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 367 by Faith, posted 06-20-2019 12:40 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 372 by Faith, posted 06-20-2019 1:33 PM Taq has replied

  
JonF
Member
Posts: 6174
Joined: 06-23-2003


Message 371 of 785 (855558)
06-20-2019 1:30 PM
Reply to: Message 362 by Taq
06-20-2019 12:34 PM


1. What should the pattern of differences be for transitions, transversions, and CpG's?

The pattern God chose.

2. What should the pattern of differences be for a comparison of introns and exons?

The pattern God chose.

3. What should the pattern of differences be between different groups of species?

The pattern God chose.

It's Goddidit all the way down.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 362 by Taq, posted 06-20-2019 12:34 PM Taq has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 377 by Taq, posted 06-20-2019 5:37 PM JonF has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 759 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 372 of 785 (855561)
06-20-2019 1:33 PM
Reply to: Message 370 by Taq
06-20-2019 1:01 PM


They're all mutations, right? So the creation model explains them as mistakes in replication that may or may not harm the genome.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 370 by Taq, posted 06-20-2019 1:01 PM Taq has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 374 by JonF, posted 06-20-2019 1:36 PM Faith has replied
 Message 379 by Taq, posted 06-20-2019 5:43 PM Faith has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 759 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 373 of 785 (855562)
06-20-2019 1:36 PM
Reply to: Message 369 by Taq
06-20-2019 1:00 PM


Re: How does the creationist model explain this?
But you said they are a similar design, so wouldn't that mean the similar design was changed for each species?

The only similar design I recall mentioning was chimp and human. And there is no implication of anything changing. God made one design for the chimp and another for the human.

Very little of a genome affects body design, so why are the parts not involved in body design also similar?

Why not?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 369 by Taq, posted 06-20-2019 1:00 PM Taq has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 378 by Taq, posted 06-20-2019 5:40 PM Faith has replied

  
JonF
Member
Posts: 6174
Joined: 06-23-2003


Message 374 of 785 (855563)
06-20-2019 1:36 PM
Reply to: Message 372 by Faith
06-20-2019 1:33 PM


They're all mutations, right? So the creation model explains them as mistakes in replication that may or may not harm the genome.

But there are obvious patterns of them between species. You were asked for an explanation of those patterns, knowing you don't have a meaningful one. Common descent explains them.

All you got is "God chose to do that". No predictive power whatsoever.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 372 by Faith, posted 06-20-2019 1:33 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 375 by Faith, posted 06-20-2019 1:38 PM JonF has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 759 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 375 of 785 (855565)
06-20-2019 1:38 PM
Reply to: Message 374 by JonF
06-20-2019 1:36 PM


Genomes are probably susceptible to certain kinds of mutations.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 374 by JonF, posted 06-20-2019 1:36 PM JonF has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 376 by JonF, posted 06-20-2019 4:20 PM Faith has replied

  
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