Understanding through Discussion


Welcome! You are not logged in. [ Login ]
EvC Forum active members: 68 (9078 total)
580 online now:
dwise1, nwr, Tangle, Theodoric (4 members, 576 visitors)
Newest Member: harveyspecter
Post Volume: Total: 895,011 Year: 6,123/6,534 Month: 316/650 Week: 86/278 Day: 8/26 Hour: 0/1


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   A test for claimed knowledge of how macroevolution occurs
JonF
Member
Posts: 6174
Joined: 06-23-2003


(1)
Message 376 of 785 (855587)
06-20-2019 4:20 PM
Reply to: Message 375 by Faith
06-20-2019 1:38 PM


Your "model" explains nothing and leads nowhere.

Why is water H2O? God did it that way. There's no use in studying chemistry, there's nothing interesting there. It's all Goddidit and there's just no explanation for the patterns. Nothing to learn there.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 375 by Faith, posted 06-20-2019 1:38 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 382 by Faith, posted 06-20-2019 8:28 PM JonF has replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 8524
Joined: 03-06-2009


Message 377 of 785 (855594)
06-20-2019 5:37 PM
Reply to: Message 371 by JonF
06-20-2019 1:30 PM


Faith writes:

The pattern God chose.

This means your model can't predict these features.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 371 by JonF, posted 06-20-2019 1:30 PM JonF has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 381 by Faith, posted 06-20-2019 8:23 PM Taq has not replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 8524
Joined: 03-06-2009


Message 378 of 785 (855595)
06-20-2019 5:40 PM
Reply to: Message 373 by Faith
06-20-2019 1:36 PM


Re: How does the creationist model explain this?
Faith writes:

The only similar design I recall mentioning was chimp and human. And there is no implication of anything changing.

There absolutely is an implication of changes. If you start with a similar design and end up with two different designs then it means there were changes to that similar design. That's how that works. Different models of Ford Ranger pickups have both differences and similarities, and this is due to changes in each model from a similar design.

Why not?

Once again, your model can't explain these observations.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 373 by Faith, posted 06-20-2019 1:36 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 383 by Faith, posted 06-20-2019 8:37 PM Taq has replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 8524
Joined: 03-06-2009


Message 379 of 785 (855596)
06-20-2019 5:43 PM
Reply to: Message 372 by Faith
06-20-2019 1:33 PM


Faith writes:

They're all mutations, right?

They are differences.

So the creation model explains them as mistakes in replication that may or may not harm the genome.

Then why are there more differences between the mouse and human cytochrome c genes than between the human and chimp cytochrome c gene? Why do the introns of the cytochrome c gene differ more between human, mouse, and chimp than the exons from that gene?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 372 by Faith, posted 06-20-2019 1:33 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 380 by JonF, posted 06-20-2019 7:42 PM Taq has not replied
 Message 384 by Faith, posted 06-20-2019 8:40 PM Taq has replied

  
JonF
Member
Posts: 6174
Joined: 06-23-2003


(1)
Message 380 of 785 (855606)
06-20-2019 7:42 PM
Reply to: Message 379 by Taq
06-20-2019 5:43 PM


Goddidit answers all possible questions. In all of science. In all of life.

There's no reason to ask questions. No way to progress in any field.

Isn't that interesting. In this one petri dish the bacteria are dead in a circle around this strange mold. Praise God! Oh well, into the recycling pile with you.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 379 by Taq, posted 06-20-2019 5:43 PM Taq has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 385 by Faith, posted 06-20-2019 8:45 PM JonF has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 757 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 381 of 785 (855613)
06-20-2019 8:23 PM
Reply to: Message 377 by Taq
06-20-2019 5:37 PM


Faith writes:
The pattern God chose.

You imputed that quote to me but I didn't write it, JonF did.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 377 by Taq, posted 06-20-2019 5:37 PM Taq has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 757 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 382 of 785 (855615)
06-20-2019 8:28 PM
Reply to: Message 376 by JonF
06-20-2019 4:20 PM


Your "model" explains nothing and leads nowhere.
Why is water H2O? God did it that way. There's no use in studying chemistry, there's nothing interesting there. It's all Goddidit and there's just no explanation for the patterns. Nothing to learn there.

This is a big fat lye.

You keep saying "God did it" but I haven't said it at all, and I see no reason why science can't work from creationism just fine. We'd want to understand how the world is put together same as evolutionists do, we'd have as much reason to learn the chemical composition of things, what physics tells us, and we certainly need medicine because of the Fall. And please stop implying that I believe what you make up about God and creationism, it's all a lye.

PLEASE OFFICIALLY TAKE BACK THIS FALSEHOOD.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 376 by JonF, posted 06-20-2019 4:20 PM JonF has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 386 by JonF, posted 06-21-2019 9:40 AM Faith has not replied
 Message 392 by ringo, posted 06-21-2019 12:12 PM Faith has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 757 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 383 of 785 (855616)
06-20-2019 8:37 PM
Reply to: Message 378 by Taq
06-20-2019 5:40 PM


Re: How does the creationist model explain this?
Faith writes:
The only similar design I recall mentioning was chimp and human. And there is no implication of anything changing.

There absolutely is an implication of changes. If you start with a similar design and end up with two different designs then it means there were changes to that similar design.

The "similar design" refers to TWO similar but different designs. It reads clearly to mean that to me, no idea why it doesn't to you.

That's how that works. Different models of Ford Ranger pickups have both differences and similarities, and this is due to changes in each model from a similar design.

In the case of chimp and human they are completely separate designs.

Once again, your model can't explain these observations.

Cue Twilight Zone theme.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 378 by Taq, posted 06-20-2019 5:40 PM Taq has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 390 by Taq, posted 06-21-2019 10:47 AM Faith has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 757 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 384 of 785 (855617)
06-20-2019 8:40 PM
Reply to: Message 379 by Taq
06-20-2019 5:43 PM


Then why are there more differences between the mouse and human cytochrome c genes than between the human and chimp cytochrome c gene? Why do the introns of the cytochrome c gene differ more between human, mouse, and chimp than the exons from that gene?

To a creationist it's a meaningless question. It has meaning in the context of evolution but not creation.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 379 by Taq, posted 06-20-2019 5:43 PM Taq has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 387 by JonF, posted 06-21-2019 9:42 AM Faith has not replied
 Message 389 by Taq, posted 06-21-2019 10:45 AM Faith has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 757 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 385 of 785 (855619)
06-20-2019 8:45 PM
Reply to: Message 380 by JonF
06-20-2019 7:42 PM


Goddidit answers all possible questions. In all of science. In all of ****.
There's no reason to ask questions. No way to progress in any field.
Isn't that interesting. In this one petri dish the bacteria are dead in a circle around this strange mold. Praise God! Oh well, into the recycling pile with you.

You seem to be confusing the basic difference between the creation of separate Kinds and the evolutionist common ancestor of all llfe with science in general. I've said nothing to justify your blanket accusation of "God did it" in any other context, it applies to the original creation, but ONLY to the original creation.

There is no reason whatever that scientific questions would not be pursued in a creationist context, as I explained above in Message 382. In a fallen world we have every need for all the sciences -- the REAL sciences, that is, not the bogus "science" of evolutionism -- and for medicine in particular. "God did it" is your silly theme song, not mine.

PLEASE TAKE BACK THIS FALSE IDEA.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 380 by JonF, posted 06-20-2019 7:42 PM JonF has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 388 by JonF, posted 06-21-2019 9:48 AM Faith has not replied

  
JonF
Member
Posts: 6174
Joined: 06-23-2003


(1)
Message 386 of 785 (855652)
06-21-2019 9:40 AM
Reply to: Message 382 by Faith
06-20-2019 8:28 PM


It's not false.

You've said that God made all the different genomes different.

The answer to all questions is "Goddidit, let's go to lunch'.

You already understand how the world is put together. Goddidit.

You've said there's no reason to investigate and explain patterns, like the periodic table.

Why on Earth would a creationist think of putting something from that strange mold into a human? With different bacteria, created by God that way.

What questions about biology does your model answer differently than "Goddidit"?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 382 by Faith, posted 06-20-2019 8:28 PM Faith has not replied

  
JonF
Member
Posts: 6174
Joined: 06-23-2003


Message 387 of 785 (855653)
06-21-2019 9:42 AM
Reply to: Message 384 by Faith
06-20-2019 8:40 PM


To a creationist it's a meaningless question. It has meaning in the context of evolution but not creation.

I agree. "Goddidit, let's go to lunch".

This message is a reply to:
 Message 384 by Faith, posted 06-20-2019 8:40 PM Faith has not replied

  
JonF
Member
Posts: 6174
Joined: 06-23-2003


(3)
Message 388 of 785 (855655)
06-21-2019 9:48 AM
Reply to: Message 385 by Faith
06-20-2019 8:45 PM


You seem to be confusing the basic difference between the creation of separate Kinds and the evolutionist common ancestor of all llfe with science in general. I've said nothing to justify your blanket accusation of "God did it" in any other context, it applies to the original creation, but ONLY to the original creation.

Why? Why not to chemistry?

If "Goddidit" is an acceptable answer in any science, it's an acceptable answer in all science. If there's no reason to investigate the patterns we see between different genmes, why would anyone investigate any pattern?

I realize you have not used the "word" "Goddidit". It's just a brief but accurate summary of your answers about genomes. Remember?

Then what does the creation model predict for the patterns in those diffeences, or does it make any prediction at all? For example:
1. What should the pattern of differences be for transitions, transversions, and CpG's?
2. What should the pattern of differences be for a comparison of introns and exons?
3. What should the pattern of differences be between different groups of species?
Can the creation model make any predictions with respect to those differences?

There is no reason that I know of why the creation model should try to explain any of that. It's all an artifact of the ToE.

No, they aren't artifacts. They are observed facts. And you say there's no reason to try to explain them.

Goddidit.

Let's go to lunch.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 385 by Faith, posted 06-20-2019 8:45 PM Faith has not replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 8524
Joined: 03-06-2009


(1)
Message 389 of 785 (855661)
06-21-2019 10:45 AM
Reply to: Message 384 by Faith
06-20-2019 8:40 PM


Faith writes:

To a creationist it's a meaningless question.

Then the creationist model can not explain the observed facts, as expected.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 384 by Faith, posted 06-20-2019 8:40 PM Faith has not replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 8524
Joined: 03-06-2009


Message 390 of 785 (855663)
06-21-2019 10:47 AM
Reply to: Message 383 by Faith
06-20-2019 8:37 PM


Re: How does the creationist model explain this?
Faith writes:

The "similar design" refers to TWO similar but different designs.

And yet you can't explain the pattern of those observed and factual differences. Evolution can.

In the case of chimp and human they are completely separate designs.

They share 98% of their design, so they aren't separate.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 383 by Faith, posted 06-20-2019 8:37 PM Faith has not replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2018 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.1
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2022