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Author Topic:   What is a tariff and who actually pays the tariff?
jar
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Posts: 31670
From: Texas!!
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(4)
Message 1 of 20 (854683)
06-11-2019 5:11 PM


It really seems that lots of Americans really have no idea what a tariff is or who pays the cost of tariffs.

A tariff is a tax or duty to be paid on a particular class of imports or exports.

As il Donald uses it it is the former form of taxation.

A tariff simply adds to the cost of an imported item.

But who pays taxes?

The secondary form of tariff is what other nations use in response to il Donalds tariffs. When il Donald applies tariffs on imported Chinese goods the US consumer pays the tax. When China imposes tariffs on US agricultural products the US famers simply loose the income from their fields. To help keep the farm vote il Donald then raises subsidies to give the farmers and US taxpayers pay those subsidies.

There is a secondary factor regarding tariffs. If China stops buying US cars and US agriculture it encourages China to develop their own agriculture and factory capabilities. The same goes for Mexico. Remember both China and Mexico can sell products to any nation on the earth. The US is convenient but certainly not essential.

So it seem that it will be US citizens that will pay the taxes called tariffs as well as suffer the economic hardship of markets lost for each and ever utterly stupid tariff il Donald decides to impose on US citizens.

(No idea where it should go.)


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

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Message 2 of 20 (854685)
06-11-2019 5:35 PM


Thread Moved from Proposed New Topics Forum
Thread moved here from the Proposed New Topics forum.

  
JonF
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Message 3 of 20 (854686)
06-11-2019 5:43 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by jar
06-11-2019 5:11 PM


There is, of course, a secondary effect. Higher prices in the US can lead to reduced demand so the Chinese lose out by selling less stuff to us.

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jar
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Posts: 31670
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.6


(1)
Message 4 of 20 (854688)
06-11-2019 5:52 PM
Reply to: Message 3 by JonF
06-11-2019 5:43 PM


But world-wide the number of consumer markets are increasing so it's possible those sales will simply go to the Middle East, Africa, Eastern Europe ...

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

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Taq
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(3)
Message 5 of 20 (854689)
06-11-2019 6:04 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by jar
06-11-2019 5:11 PM


jar writes:

But who pays taxes?

Exactly. Trump and Republicans keep talking about how we need to reduce taxes on small businesses and companies, and then they turn around and tax those very same entities through tariffs. Go figure. Trump is essentially using Americans as hostages, threatening to hurt his own citizens if China doesn't agree to his terms.

Tariffs only really work when they are laser focused and preemptive. For example, if the Chinese start producing massive amounts of soy beans and are looking to flood the US market then it makes sense to put tariffs on Chinese soy beans to protect American farmers. However, if American companies already depend on cheap goods from China to manufacture their own goods and there are no other affordable domestic alternatives, then tariffs are a huge problem.


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JonF
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(3)
Message 6 of 20 (854694)
06-11-2019 6:34 PM
Reply to: Message 5 by Taq
06-11-2019 6:04 PM


Trump is too stupid to realize who pays.

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AZPaul3
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(1)
Message 7 of 20 (854699)
06-11-2019 7:46 PM
Reply to: Message 3 by JonF
06-11-2019 5:43 PM


Right. Let's bring down the US economy so that we can help bring down the Chinese economy. Brilliant.

Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.

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jar
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Message 8 of 20 (854700)
06-11-2019 8:24 PM
Reply to: Message 7 by AZPaul3
06-11-2019 7:46 PM


Except the Chinese economy has a larger internal growth potential than the US internal growth potential. And China can also turn to Russia and India and South East Asia and Iraq and Iran and Pakistan and England and France and Germany and Italy and Brazil and Argentina, and ... as potential places to sell Chinese goods or buy oil.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

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AZPaul3
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From: Phoenix
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(2)
Message 9 of 20 (854702)
06-11-2019 8:40 PM
Reply to: Message 8 by jar
06-11-2019 8:24 PM


Many people do not realize just how big a Global Superpower China has become. They have become major world players in politics, economics, military, science.

They are also totalitarian. Their human rights record is not the ... well ... it sucks, big time.


Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.

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dwise1
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Message 10 of 20 (854704)
06-11-2019 9:00 PM
Reply to: Message 6 by JonF
06-11-2019 6:34 PM


Trump is too ****** to realize who pays.

More that he doesn't care Unless part of that money doesn't flow into his own pocket.


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dwise1
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(1)
Message 11 of 20 (854705)
06-11-2019 9:02 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by jar
06-11-2019 5:11 PM


Trump was boasting about tens of billions of dollars flowing into the US economy because of the tariffs on China. Rather, that's tens of billions of dollars being sucked out of the US economy and into the federal coffers.

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jar
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Posts: 31670
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.6


(1)
Message 12 of 20 (854738)
06-12-2019 8:53 AM
Reply to: Message 9 by AZPaul3
06-11-2019 8:40 PM


They are also resource rich in both people and materials. They have an internal growth potential similar to the US at the turn of the 20th Century.

And a totalitarian led industrial society is nearly unstoppable.


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

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Thugpreacha
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Message 13 of 20 (854744)
06-12-2019 10:31 AM
Reply to: Message 8 by jar
06-11-2019 8:24 PM


Survival Of The Fittest
JonF writes:

Trump is too stupid to realize who pays.

Actually, I think he doesn't really care. He looks at the world as naturally competitive and he plans on winning for his own family at least and expects everyone to buckle down and ride the rapids along with him. (Though he avoids the rapids, jetting over them high in the sky via Air Force One.

AZPaul3 writes:

Let's bring down the US economy so that we can help bring down the Chinese economy. Brilliant.

I doubt if he really cares about what happens to classes of people. He sees the ultimate battle as an individual decision. Survival Of The Fittest (or those who got a jumpstart from Daddy)
jAR writes:

And China can also turn to Russia and India and South East Asia and Iraq and Iran and Pakistan and England and France and Germany and Italy and Brazil and Argentina, and ... as potential places to sell Chinese goods or buy oil.

Trump is effectively causing the global economies to unite and strengthen, forcing America itself to only become great again through hard work, sacrifice, and education. He is at best showing tough love to the middle class and at worst, indifference and even contempt.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.
In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.
~Stile


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Taq
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Posts: 8170
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 4.2


(1)
Message 14 of 20 (854749)
06-12-2019 11:28 AM
Reply to: Message 6 by JonF
06-11-2019 6:34 PM


JonF writes:

Trump is too stupid to realize who pays.

I think someone finally filled him in, and it finally registered in his brain. However, it is quite scary to have seen Trump tweet out how his tariffs are forcing China to pay money to the US Treasury. It makes you wonder if he had no idea how tariffs worked when he initially pushed for them. Since then, he has tweeted out that he understands it is American importers that pay the tariffs, so at least he knows now.


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Taq
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Posts: 8170
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 4.2


Message 15 of 20 (854750)
06-12-2019 11:31 AM
Reply to: Message 13 by Thugpreacha
06-12-2019 10:31 AM


Re: Survival Of The Fittest
Thugpreacha writes:

He looks at the world as naturally competitive and he plans on winning for his own family at least and expects everyone to buckle down and ride the rapids along with him.

Tariffs are actually anti-competitive, but I agree on his single minded focus of what benefits him and his family.

Trump is effectively causing the global economies to unite and strengthen, forcing America itself to only become great again through hard work, sacrifice, and education. He is at best showing tough love to the middle class and at worst, indifference and even contempt.

Sarcasm?


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