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Author Topic:   The Case For A Creator
jar
Member
Posts: 33416
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.1


Message 37 of 67 (857910)
07-13-2019 9:58 AM
Reply to: Message 35 by Phat
07-13-2019 9:31 AM


Re: jars logic regarding a Creator
There is no reasonable, rational or logical support for a belief in a creator.

I believe there was a Creator but I understand that is simply an unreasonable illogical irrational belief.

There is no "Case for a Creator".


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios � � My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 35 by Phat, posted 07-13-2019 9:31 AM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 38 by Phat, posted 07-13-2019 10:13 AM jar has responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 33416
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.1


(1)
Message 40 of 67 (857914)
07-13-2019 10:27 AM
Reply to: Message 38 by Phat
07-13-2019 10:13 AM


Re: jars logic regarding a Creator
Phat writes:

All you are really saying is that belief--in GOD---perhaps clarified by Jesus Christ (the Nicene Creed)---is irrational, illogical, and unreasonable.

Jesus had absolutely nothing to do with the Nicene Creed but yes, the Nicene Creed in particular is unreasonable, irrational and illogical.

Phat writes:

So why do you believe?

For the same reason anyone believes anything, how they were brought up, what social influence were in their life, comfort.

The fact is that I do believe but don't try to pretend that it is not illogical, unreasonable and irrational.


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios � � My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 38 by Phat, posted 07-13-2019 10:13 AM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 41 by Phat, posted 07-13-2019 10:49 AM jar has responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 33416
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.1


Message 42 of 67 (857919)
07-13-2019 10:56 AM
Reply to: Message 41 by Phat
07-13-2019 10:49 AM


Re: jars logic regarding a Creator
Phat writes:

You always ask me how I can prove or describe what it means that Jesus is alive. What if I told you that it is as simple as embracing an admittedly illogical belief? How far out of the boat are you willing to walk?

There you go making the same old mistake.

No belief is evidence of anything except that someone believes. A belief that Jesus is alive has no real meaning unless you can explain what that even means.


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios � � My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 41 by Phat, posted 07-13-2019 10:49 AM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 44 by Phat, posted 07-13-2019 11:32 AM jar has responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 33416
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.1


Message 49 of 67 (857928)
07-13-2019 11:59 AM
Reply to: Message 44 by Phat
07-13-2019 11:32 AM


But what does the Bible actually say about it?
Phat writes:

Perhaps God would show mercy to an atheist with no desire to accept Jesus but who dutifully and perhaps even joyfully clothed,fed, encouraged, and edified the people with no strings attached.

But in fact the Bible repeatedly says just that; that it is not what you say, not what you profess to believe, not what you do believe but what you actually do that counts. It's not that God would show mercy to an atheist but rather God would rejoice in an atheist with no desire to accept Jesus but who dutifully and perhaps even joyfully clothed,fed, encouraged, and edified the people with no strings attached.

But again, that has absolutely NOTHING to do with any "Case For A Creator".


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios � � My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 44 by Phat, posted 07-13-2019 11:32 AM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
jar
Member
Posts: 33416
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.1


Message 53 of 67 (857937)
07-13-2019 4:55 PM
Reply to: Message 52 by Phat
07-13-2019 4:16 PM


Re: jars logic regarding a Creator
Phat writes:

One does not simply make God up by definition.

But Phat, what does the evidence show?

How many Gods are there?

Since the God in Genesis 1 is described as an entirely different character and personality than the God of Genesis 2&3 how can you determine which is the REAL God and which is (are) simply made up?

What about Thor and Ra and Ganesh and Apollo and Coyote and Raven and Tengri and Shiva and Odin?

What does the evidence show?


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios � � My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 52 by Phat, posted 07-13-2019 4:16 PM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 54 by Phat, posted 07-13-2019 4:58 PM jar has responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 33416
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.1


Message 55 of 67 (857939)
07-13-2019 5:03 PM
Reply to: Message 54 by Phat
07-13-2019 4:58 PM


Re: jars logic regarding a Creator
But there is no more evidence that the Judaic God or even Jesus is not simply made up just like Apollo, Ra, Thor, Odin, Tengri, Ganesha ...

And the question "How do you know what you think is God is God?" remains.


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios � � My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 54 by Phat, posted 07-13-2019 4:58 PM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 56 by Phat, posted 07-13-2019 5:04 PM jar has responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 33416
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.1


(1)
Message 57 of 67 (857941)
07-13-2019 5:33 PM
Reply to: Message 56 by Phat
07-13-2019 5:04 PM


Re: jars logic regarding a Creator
You are Phat.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios � � My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 56 by Phat, posted 07-13-2019 5:04 PM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 59 by Phat, posted 07-14-2019 2:26 AM jar has responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 33416
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.1


Message 60 of 67 (857957)
07-14-2019 7:29 AM
Reply to: Message 59 by Phat
07-14-2019 2:26 AM


Re: jars logic regarding a Creator
Phat writes:

What I mean is that that is the question that Jesus would ask everyone today. He represents the Creator of all seen and unseen. Or do you doubt that this is true?

LOL

We can only know if and when Jesus shows up in a testable and verifiable form and asks the question.

Sheesh Phat.

Such a question is simply silly and without any connection to reality beyond one cults dogma.


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios � � My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 59 by Phat, posted 07-14-2019 2:26 AM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 61 by Phat, posted 07-14-2019 7:41 AM jar has responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 33416
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.1


Message 62 of 67 (857992)
07-14-2019 1:23 PM
Reply to: Message 61 by Phat
07-14-2019 7:41 AM


reality is testable
Phat writes:

You really have no place to define what is dogma and what is reality.

Of course I can say what is reality and what is dogma; sheesh Phat.

Reality is evidence based, testable and verifiable independently. Dogma is the stuff made up by a particular cult and common only within that cult.

Phat writes:

You limit yourself to begin with by claiming that none of us can know if its God or not.

There you go dishonestly misrepresenting what I have said YET AGAIN.

What I have said is that so far NO ONE has ever been able to explain how anyone can know if it is God or not.

And that in particular includes you Phat.

Phat writes:

Reason being that God does not allow Himself to be revealed objectively so that any layman can simply examine His merits as if buying a product.

And there you go just spouting Dogma yet again Phat and I really don't think you even know when you are doing it.

Just how do you determine that God does not allow Himself to be revealed objectively so that any layman can simply examine His merits as if buying a product by any means other than the Dogma of your chosen Cult?


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios � � My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 61 by Phat, posted 07-14-2019 7:41 AM Phat has not yet responded

  
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