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Author Topic:   No Taxation without Representation.
Pressie
Member
Posts: 2085
From: Pretoria, SA
Joined: 06-18-2010


Message 10 of 31 (856475)
07-01-2019 8:26 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by jar
06-28-2019 9:06 PM


In my country, where only around 30% of the people pay direct municipal taxes or for electricity or for roads or for water, I can argue that only those people directly taxed for those amenities should be able to vote in municipal elections. Those who don't pay anything at all shouldn't be allowed to vote at all. No pay- no direct representation.

Edited by Pressie, : No reason given.

Edited by Pressie, : No reason given.

Edited by Pressie, : No reason given.


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 Message 1 by jar, posted 06-28-2019 9:06 PM jar has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 11 by Taq, posted 07-01-2019 12:20 PM Pressie has responded
 Message 13 by ringo, posted 07-01-2019 3:05 PM Pressie has responded

  
Pressie
Member
Posts: 2085
From: Pretoria, SA
Joined: 06-18-2010


Message 18 of 31 (856678)
07-02-2019 7:44 AM
Reply to: Message 11 by Taq
07-01-2019 12:20 PM


Taq writes:

In a normal economy, the cost of those taxes are dispersed to the whole community. While a renter doesn't directly pay property taxes, it is included in their rent. Higher property taxes equals higher rent. Higher tariffs equal higher costs for products at the store, even if the consumer is not directly paying the tariff.

In a normal economy, yes. Where I live 70% of the people do not pay rent or municipal taxes or anything. No form of income going into the local government, at all. What happens is that the paying 30% face paying for the rent electricity, etc. for the 70% who pay nothing at all. Coming election time, with 70% not paying for anything, we all know how that will go.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 11 by Taq, posted 07-01-2019 12:20 PM Taq has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 26 by Taq, posted 07-03-2019 2:30 PM Pressie has responded

  
Pressie
Member
Posts: 2085
From: Pretoria, SA
Joined: 06-18-2010


Message 19 of 31 (856679)
07-02-2019 7:48 AM
Reply to: Message 13 by ringo
07-01-2019 3:05 PM


ringo writes:

I would say the opposite: anybody who pays taxes, directly or indirectly, should have representation. Illegal immigrants included

True in a normal economy. At local level, in my country, 70% of the people don't pay any taxes for local communities. They should not vote in local elections.

They do pay taxes indirect taxes on national level. They should vote nationally.

Edited by Pressie, : No reason given.


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 Message 13 by ringo, posted 07-01-2019 3:05 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 20 by Heathen, posted 07-02-2019 8:18 AM Pressie has responded
 Message 21 by ringo, posted 07-02-2019 11:56 AM Pressie has responded

  
Pressie
Member
Posts: 2085
From: Pretoria, SA
Joined: 06-18-2010


Message 22 of 31 (856816)
07-03-2019 7:58 AM
Reply to: Message 20 by Heathen
07-02-2019 8:18 AM


They don't work in the formal economy. No receipts, etc.

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Pressie
Member
Posts: 2085
From: Pretoria, SA
Joined: 06-18-2010


Message 23 of 31 (856818)
07-03-2019 8:42 AM
Reply to: Message 20 by Heathen
07-02-2019 8:18 AM


heathen writes:

What is the reason that 70% do not pay any taxes?

Work in the informal sector.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 20 by Heathen, posted 07-02-2019 8:18 AM Heathen has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 28 by Heathen, posted 07-04-2019 8:33 AM Pressie has not yet responded

  
Pressie
Member
Posts: 2085
From: Pretoria, SA
Joined: 06-18-2010


Message 24 of 31 (856819)
07-03-2019 8:45 AM
Reply to: Message 21 by ringo
07-02-2019 11:56 AM


ringo writes:

That's a distinction that has a lot of room for abuse. A lot of people could be disenfranchised because they don't pay "directly" enough in a given jurisdiction.
I'd rather give the vote to a thousand who don't "deserve" it than take it away from one who does.

Actually, by taxing the small percentage law-abiding citizens who pay for things to breaking point only works up to a point. That point is when they run out of money to be able to give.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 21 by ringo, posted 07-02-2019 11:56 AM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 25 by ringo, posted 07-03-2019 12:09 PM Pressie has responded

  
Pressie
Member
Posts: 2085
From: Pretoria, SA
Joined: 06-18-2010


Message 27 of 31 (856922)
07-04-2019 7:43 AM
Reply to: Message 26 by Taq
07-03-2019 2:30 PM


Sure, but it is the opposite of what I currently experience in my country. The small percentage of people who actually pay something (around 30%) are completely outvoted by the large percentage of people who don't pay anything or for anything (around 70%).

Edited by Pressie, : No reason given.

Edited by Pressie, : No reason given.


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 Message 26 by Taq, posted 07-03-2019 2:30 PM Taq has not yet responded

  
Pressie
Member
Posts: 2085
From: Pretoria, SA
Joined: 06-18-2010


Message 29 of 31 (856925)
07-04-2019 8:38 AM
Reply to: Message 25 by ringo
07-03-2019 12:09 PM


ring writes:

But we're not taxing only the law-abiding.

In my country only the law-abiding are taxed. That's the problem. The percentage deciding to say "stuff that, nothing happens when not following the law" is growing every year. And all those people vote for people who decided that neither laws nor payment for anything would be important.

Edited by Pressie, : No reason given.

Edited by Pressie, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 25 by ringo, posted 07-03-2019 12:09 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 30 by ringo, posted 07-04-2019 12:12 PM Pressie has responded

  
Pressie
Member
Posts: 2085
From: Pretoria, SA
Joined: 06-18-2010


Message 31 of 31 (857043)
07-05-2019 6:10 AM
Reply to: Message 30 by ringo
07-04-2019 12:12 PM


In those days it wouldn't have worked for him. It would have been hell for him.

Now we have millions of people, a lot poorer than him, doing what he tried. And the state doesn't give a damn. They did send in people trying to recuperate debts, all over the country, and those people got killed by the mobs. Then the state gave up on it.

They just tax the small percentage of people who do pay a lot more.

Edited by Pressie, : No reason given.

Edited by Pressie, : No reason given.

Edited by Pressie, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 30 by ringo, posted 07-04-2019 12:12 PM ringo has acknowledged this reply

  
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