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Author Topic:   Did the Flood really happen?
ringo
Member
Posts: 17138
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 16 of 1255 (857096)
07-05-2019 12:06 PM
Reply to: Message 5 by Faith
07-05-2019 9:21 AM


Re: Nope.
Faith writes:

Could you please sketch out the arguments "centuries ago" that "determined" there was no worldwide Flood.


Could you please sketch out how you distinguish One Big Flood from lots of little floods?

Suppose somebody asked you what happened to all of the food that came in the back door of a restaurant. Your reply was, "A giant ate it." How do you know it was One Giant and not a lot of ordinary people?


All that are in Hell, choose it. -- CS Lewis
That's just egregiously stupid. -- ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 5 by Faith, posted 07-05-2019 9:21 AM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 19 by Faith, posted 07-06-2019 9:31 AM ringo has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 17138
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.2


(3)
Message 40 of 1255 (857184)
07-06-2019 12:09 PM
Reply to: Message 19 by Faith
07-06-2019 9:31 AM


Re: Nope.
Faith writes:

There is simply no comparison with a local flood....


Why not?

Faith writes:

It's quantity for starters....


Every particle is deposited individually, so there's no fundamental difference between a small pile of particles and a big pile of particles.

Faith writes:

Does constant rain for forty days and nights sounds like it can be compared to a local flood?


Yup.
quote:
"From 1939-40, Maunawili Ranch on the island of Oahu saw 331 straight days with measurable rain...." link

Faith writes:

Multiply by millions....


I'm not asking you to imagine a really big flood. I'm asking you how you would distinguish the results of a really big one from a million little ones. Specifically. What would be different?

We see lots of little floods as they happen and we see the layers that they deposit, so we know very well what little-flood layers look like. We see the same kind of layers all over the world, whether we saw them being deposited or not. We do not see any "special" layers that can not be explained by the little floods that we see all the time. So how can you tell, specifically, which ones were deposited by little floods and which ones were deposited by The Big Flood?


All that are in Hell, choose it. -- CS Lewis
That's just egregiously stupid. -- ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 19 by Faith, posted 07-06-2019 9:31 AM Faith has not yet responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 17138
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 147 of 1255 (857568)
07-09-2019 12:37 PM
Reply to: Message 146 by Faith
07-09-2019 12:32 PM


Faith writes:

The many flood stories from many cultures, even with all their distortions, are not going to be memories of a merely local flood which occur all the time all over the earth.


Sure they are. A flood that destroys everything you have is going to seem like an earth-shattering event even if people a few miles away never even hear about it.

All that are in Hell, choose it. -- CS Lewis
That's just egregiously stupid. -- ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 146 by Faith, posted 07-09-2019 12:32 PM Faith has not yet responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 17138
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 154 of 1255 (857575)
07-09-2019 12:47 PM
Reply to: Message 152 by Faith
07-09-2019 12:42 PM


Faith writes:

... a very specific story considered significant enough to be preserved despite the fact that lots of other floods happened all the time that they didn't feel needed to be preserved.


Ever hear of science fiction? There are thousands of post-apocalyptic stories and they're all based on little apocalypses like the ones we see in the news every day. There has never been One Big Apocalypse that somebody felt the need to remember.

All that are in Hell, choose it. -- CS Lewis
That's just egregiously stupid. -- ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 152 by Faith, posted 07-09-2019 12:42 PM Faith has not yet responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 17138
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 166 of 1255 (857591)
07-09-2019 1:42 PM
Reply to: Message 163 by Faith
07-09-2019 1:29 PM


Faith writes:

It would have to be something of a huge magnitude they couldn't escape except by being on a boat, which wouldn't be needed if it was just a local flood.


Reminds me of something Velikovsky wrote. Some fish fossils had died with horrified expressions on their faces indicated that they must have died in some immense catastrophe. But I would think that their own deaths (and maybe the deaths of their loved-fish) would have been horrifying enough.

All that are in Hell, choose it. -- CS Lewis
That's just egregiously stupid. -- ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 163 by Faith, posted 07-09-2019 1:29 PM Faith has not yet responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 17138
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 222 of 1255 (857704)
07-10-2019 4:18 PM
Reply to: Message 221 by Faith
07-10-2019 4:06 PM


Faith writes:

Actually it's because you all so aggressively always insist on misrepresenting me just as you are doing now.


Nobody's misrepresenting you.

quote:
Job 15:5-6 For thy mouth uttereth thine iniquity, and thou choosest the tongue of the crafty. Thine own mouth condemneth thee, and not I: yea, thine own lips testify against thee.

quote:
Matthew 12:37 For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.

All that are in Hell, choose it. -- CS Lewis
That's just egregiously stupid. -- ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 221 by Faith, posted 07-10-2019 4:06 PM Faith has not yet responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 17138
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 373 of 1255 (858055)
07-15-2019 1:10 PM
Reply to: Message 372 by Faith
07-15-2019 1:07 PM


Faith writes:

Or one reads with one's own mind intact, but with a strong critical perspective that sees what's wrong with certain ideas.


anglagard's signature:
quote:
Read not to contradict and confute, not to believe and take for granted, not to find talk and discourse, but to weigh and consider. - Francis Bacon

All that are in Hell, choose it. -- CS Lewis
That's just egregiously stupid. -- ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 372 by Faith, posted 07-15-2019 1:07 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 374 by Faith, posted 07-15-2019 1:16 PM ringo has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 17138
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 375 of 1255 (858058)
07-15-2019 1:20 PM
Reply to: Message 374 by Faith
07-15-2019 1:16 PM


Faith writes:

Yes, weigh and consider, that's what the critical mind does.


And your mind just dismisses,

All that are in Hell, choose it. -- CS Lewis
That's just egregiously stupid. -- ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 374 by Faith, posted 07-15-2019 1:16 PM Faith has not yet responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 17138
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 387 of 1255 (858159)
07-17-2019 6:37 PM
Reply to: Message 386 by Faith
07-17-2019 6:33 PM


Re: honest exploration of physical reality.
Faith writes:

... my view is biblical and the Flood is as far back as anything goes.


The Bible doesn't say that the flood destroyed every trace of what went before. Its only purpose was to kill, not destroy.

All that are in Hell, choose it. -- CS Lewis
That's just egregiously stupid. -- ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 386 by Faith, posted 07-17-2019 6:33 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 388 by Faith, posted 07-17-2019 7:26 PM ringo has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 17138
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 390 of 1255 (858166)
07-17-2019 7:33 PM
Reply to: Message 388 by Faith
07-17-2019 7:26 PM


Re: honest exploration of physical reality.
Faith writes:

I guess we could consider what might have survived, but the Bible DOES say that whole world perished: 2 Peter 3:6


What "perished" is not the issue. You were talking about sites such as Ur, Jericho, Sidon and Rujm el-Hiri. The Bible doesn't say anything about such sites being destroyed.

All that are in Hell, choose it. -- CS Lewis
That's just egregiously stupid. -- ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 388 by Faith, posted 07-17-2019 7:26 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 391 by Faith, posted 07-17-2019 8:03 PM ringo has responded
 Message 458 by Percy, posted 07-19-2019 8:48 PM ringo has acknowledged this reply

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 17138
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 417 of 1255 (858214)
07-18-2019 11:43 AM
Reply to: Message 391 by Faith
07-17-2019 8:03 PM


Re: honest exploration of physical reality.
Faith writes:

Nothing at all is said about that, either pro or con, so anything you happen to ***** about it is just your own ********.


That's what I'm saying to you. You claimed in Message 386, "my view is biblical". It isn't. It's made up.

All that are in Hell, choose it. -- CS Lewis
That's just egregiously stupid. -- ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 391 by Faith, posted 07-17-2019 8:03 PM Faith has not yet responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 17138
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 519 of 1255 (858629)
07-22-2019 1:19 PM
Reply to: Message 517 by Faith
07-22-2019 1:11 PM


Re: Maybe just a few explanations of how either Biblical Flood did ...
Faith writes:

... the Flood is the only way they COULD have been transported.


You've just been shown that the Flood could not have done it without breaking them. All you're doing is saying, Nuh uh."

All that are in Hell, choose it. -- CS Lewis
That's just egregiously stupid. -- ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 517 by Faith, posted 07-22-2019 1:11 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 526 by Faith, posted 07-22-2019 1:52 PM ringo has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 17138
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 546 of 1255 (858677)
07-22-2019 4:48 PM
Reply to: Message 526 by Faith
07-22-2019 1:52 PM


Re: Maybe just a few explanations of how either Biblical Flood did ...
Faith writes:

Well, as I said, they couldn't have grown there, they had to be transported, and that means the Flood.


You have it backwards. They could not have been transported without breaking. The Flood could not have moved them without breaking. That means they must have grown there (unless there's a third alternative).

All that are in Hell, choose it. -- CS Lewis
That's just egregiously stupid. -- ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 526 by Faith, posted 07-22-2019 1:52 PM Faith has not yet responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 17138
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.2


(1)
Message 563 of 1255 (858732)
07-23-2019 12:13 PM
Reply to: Message 562 by Faith
07-23-2019 12:05 PM


Re: Corals
Faith writes:

i don't worry about all those other details when I know the Flood has been proved in so many other ways....


It only needs to be disproven in one way for all of the "proofs" to be irrelevant. The magical bulletproof coral has definitely been disproven.

All that are in Hell, choose it. -- CS Lewis
That's just egregiously stupid. -- ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 562 by Faith, posted 07-23-2019 12:05 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 564 by Faith, posted 07-23-2019 12:15 PM ringo has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 17138
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.2


(1)
Message 571 of 1255 (858741)
07-23-2019 12:37 PM
Reply to: Message 564 by Faith
07-23-2019 12:15 PM


Re: Corals
Faith writes:

All your speculations sound reasonable but there is no way to prove them one way or another so they remain speculations.


On the contrary, it is very easy to test the fragility of coral.

Faith writes:

The coral transport scenario has not been disproven, sorry.


That's another experiment that creationists could do. Throw some coral into a flood, have it transported a few hundred miles and check for damage. Why don't they ever do the experiments?

Faith writes:

... I can demonstrate the evidence....


The evidence would be transporting coral without damage. Demonstrate that.

All that are in Hell, choose it. -- CS Lewis
That's just egregiously stupid. -- ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 564 by Faith, posted 07-23-2019 12:15 PM Faith has not yet responded

  
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