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Author Topic:   Did the Flood really happen?
Tangle
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Posts: 7950
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 3.2


(2)
Message 15 of 2365 (857090)
07-05-2019 11:40 AM


A flood that killed all animals and plants at the same time would leave the markers of a genetic bottleneck in the genomes of all modern species at exactly that date.

No such markers exist.


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


Replies to this message:
 Message 21 by Faith, posted 07-06-2019 9:40 AM Tangle has responded

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 7950
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 32 of 2365 (857167)
07-06-2019 10:44 AM
Reply to: Message 21 by Faith
07-06-2019 9:40 AM


Faith writes:

I've explained this a million times before and I know you've seen it but you don't llke it so you pretend I never said it.

You've made up a story a million times before which is utter shit.

You'll notice that if someone says something that does not contradict settled science and is backed by credible evidence, it's not discussed again. But if someone makes stuff up on the hoof that is patently unevidenced bullshit and flies in the face of known facts, we tend to keep on saying it.


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 21 by Faith, posted 07-06-2019 9:40 AM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 33 by Faith, posted 07-06-2019 10:47 AM Tangle has responded

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 7950
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 39 of 2365 (857183)
07-06-2019 11:57 AM
Reply to: Message 33 by Faith
07-06-2019 10:47 AM


Faith writes:

Yeah, well I do expect the logic of it to make sense to some but it doesn't and I don't care any more.

There's no logic in it, you just made up a story.

The story you made up could be called a hypothesis, but then you'd need evidence to support it. And the evidence does the opposite. So it's just bullshit.


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 33 by Faith, posted 07-06-2019 10:47 AM Faith has not yet responded

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 7950
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 509 of 2365 (858599)
07-22-2019 11:24 AM
Reply to: Message 508 by jar
07-22-2019 10:52 AM


Re: Maybe just a few explanations of how either Biblical Flood did ...
6. Sort the rock and fossils by age - oldest deepest - and make radio dating match.

Edited by Tangle, : No reason given.


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 508 by jar, posted 07-22-2019 10:52 AM jar has not yet responded

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 7950
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 1297 of 2365 (868727)
12-17-2019 2:19 PM


No evidence for a global flood.
Irrefutable of evidence that says it didn't happen.
No evidence for a young earth, irrefutable evidence for an old earth.

And that's just the science.

Historically, the flood myths in the bible are based on a series of earlier flood myths from Messapetamia, the best known being Gilgamesh.

quote:
Mesopotamian mythology refers to the myths, religious texts, and other literature that comes from the region of ancient Mesopotamia in modern-day West Asia. In particular the societies of Sumer, Akkad, and Assyria, all of which existed shortly after 3000 BCE and were mostly gone by 400 CE.[1] These works were primarily preserved on stone or clay tablets and were written in cuneiform by scribes. Several lengthy pieces have survived, some of which are considered the oldest stories in the world, and have given historians insight into Mesopotamian ideology and cosmology.

Mesopotamian myths - Wikipedia

Can we please stop trying to convince Faith that she's wrong now, it doesn't work, she's heard it all before and we know she's not influenced by facts.


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 7950
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 3.2


(3)
Message 1351 of 2365 (868875)
12-19-2019 12:08 PM
Reply to: Message 1350 by RAZD
12-19-2019 10:47 AM


Re: Don't you ever dust?
Faith writes:

Sedimentation is a weird idea, somehow it's expected to come along for no good reason...

Stuff rolls down hill.

I live at the bottom of a valley with fairly sloping sides. I put a path down in my garden 15 years ago, until this summer it had become subsurface, I had to dig it out and remake it.

Never wondered why archaeologists have to dig? And why their sites are called 'digs'? It¡s because sediments gradually bury whatever is on the surface. The longer you leave it, the further down it will be.


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1350 by RAZD, posted 12-19-2019 10:47 AM RAZD has acknowledged this reply

Replies to this message:
 Message 1352 by AZPaul3, posted 12-19-2019 2:12 PM Tangle has not yet responded
 Message 1356 by Faith, posted 12-19-2019 4:47 PM Tangle has responded

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 7950
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 3.2


(1)
Message 1358 of 2365 (868893)
12-19-2019 5:04 PM
Reply to: Message 1356 by Faith
12-19-2019 4:47 PM


Re: Don't you ever dust?
Faith writes:

They don't make flat sandstone or siltstone or shale rocks that cover thousands of square miles as deep as your chalk cliffs.

That's exactly what they do.
You've been shown exactly how a thousand times.


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1356 by Faith, posted 12-19-2019 4:47 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1359 by Faith, posted 12-19-2019 5:11 PM Tangle has not yet responded

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 7950
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 3.2


(1)
Message 1441 of 2365 (869179)
12-25-2019 3:05 AM
Reply to: Message 1437 by Faith
12-24-2019 9:15 PM


Re: You can't get a rock out of a landscape with living things
Tell us where the errors are.

Sedimentary rock - Wikipedia


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1437 by Faith, posted 12-24-2019 9:15 PM Faith has not yet responded

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 7950
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 3.2


(1)
Message 1563 of 2365 (869676)
01-03-2020 5:04 PM
Reply to: Message 1562 by Faith
01-03-2020 4:54 PM


Re: layers don’t represent time periods
Faith writes:

Can't let some stupid creationist tell us we're wrong.

It was creationists that told us what was right.


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1562 by Faith, posted 01-03-2020 4:54 PM Faith has not yet responded

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 7950
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 1572 of 2365 (869695)
01-04-2020 3:21 AM
Reply to: Message 1570 by Faith
01-03-2020 11:44 PM


Re: layers don’t represent time periods
Faith writes:

The point is that you can't have a time period that is completely occupied by a rock.

The point is that your picture of how rocks are formed is wrong. Why not educate yourself.

quote:
The land around you, no matter where you live, is made of rock. If you live in a place that has good rich soil, the soil itself is finely broken down or weathered rock.

People that live in a desert region can easily find rocks on the surface. These rocks lay on a surface of clay that is also a product of weathering rock. Weathering is the process of breaking down rocks and minerals into smaller pieces by water, wind, and ice.

Sedimentary rocks are formed from the breaking apart of other rocks (igneous, metamorphic, or sedimentary rocks) and the cementation, compaction and recrystallization of these broken pieces of rock.


Sedimentary Rocks Lesson #13

You and me live on top of sediments which are made from eroded rock and will eventually become rock again by the same process. In a few million years some of our fossils will be found inside those rocks buried under a mile of sediment.


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1570 by Faith, posted 01-03-2020 11:44 PM Faith has not yet responded

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 7950
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 3.2


(2)
Message 1808 of 2365 (879012)
07-09-2020 4:16 PM
Reply to: Message 1807 by Phat
07-09-2020 3:22 PM


Re: Historical record evidence
Phat writes:

One common trait which I see in many arguments is the stubborn insistence of some to frame the argument solely in their own method...

The two sides of the argument are not equally balanced. One side is provably correct while the other is ignorant garbage that only religious cranks adhere to.

Dad obviously wants...insists...that you acknowledge his point. Refusal to do so causes him to become stubborn and repetitive.

He doesn't have an argument Phat, he has an assertion. That's why his replies to long and considered explanations backed by pages of actual evidence are single, contentless sentences.

He has a single assertion which he will not (can not) produce any evidence for. So instead of producing an argument to support his assertion (that time was different in the past along with all of physics) he is forced to attempt shift the burden of proof to us. It's a tactic that only us fruitcakes would tolerate. The rest of the world just laughs and points.


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1807 by Phat, posted 07-09-2020 3:22 PM Phat has not yet responded

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 7950
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 1895 of 2365 (879980)
07-27-2020 8:04 AM
Reply to: Message 1894 by Juvenissun
07-27-2020 7:51 AM


Juvenissum writes:

The earth has the largest amount of ocean water in the solar system. No one can answer the origin of the seawater and the history of seawater increase. This vast amount of seawater makes the global flood possible.
This alone, is the most powerful evidence of the global flood.

Hi Juve, just so you know, this is a science forum so you need to provide evidence and sources for your arguments.

Assuming that you're right that the earth has the most water in the solar system, why does that provide evidence of a global flood?


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1894 by Juvenissun, posted 07-27-2020 7:51 AM Juvenissun has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1899 by Juvenissun, posted 07-27-2020 9:17 PM Tangle has responded

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 7950
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 1901 of 2365 (880022)
07-28-2020 2:51 AM
Reply to: Message 1899 by Juvenissun
07-27-2020 9:17 PM


Juvennisun writes:

Flood needs water. The earth has a lot of seawater. This satisfies the first requirement.

The water here isn't enough to cover the earth to a level above the mountains. I definitely would have noticed.

Of course, there are other requirements. But, in the solar system, the earth is the only place allows a global flood.

I'm still not sure about that but it does seem totally irrelevant. I haven't heard anyone claim that the flood was on another planet, not here.

Admit that first. This eliminates the statement: the global flood is impossible.

I'm afraid it doesn't. Some water doesn't equal enough water.


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1899 by Juvenissun, posted 07-27-2020 9:17 PM Juvenissun has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1904 by Juvenissun, posted 07-28-2020 7:34 AM Tangle has responded

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 7950
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 1906 of 2365 (880029)
07-28-2020 7:40 AM
Reply to: Message 1904 by Juvenissun
07-28-2020 7:34 AM


Juvenissum writes:

The earth has a unique thing called "continent". The current geological model says, the amount of continent increases gradually from minimum to the current 30%.

Does it indeed. Can I have a source for that please?

Just while you're finding that, are we working on the same time scales? Noah's Flood was about 4,500 years ago?

How old do you think the earth is?


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1904 by Juvenissun, posted 07-28-2020 7:34 AM Juvenissun has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1909 by Juvenissun, posted 07-28-2020 10:02 AM Tangle has responded

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 7950
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 1910 of 2365 (880049)
07-28-2020 12:44 PM
Reply to: Message 1909 by Juvenissun
07-28-2020 10:02 AM


Juvenissun writes:

Look up geologic term: "continental aggregation".

No thanks, it's up to you to make your case. Just explain to us why you think 'continental aggregation' can show that a global flood happened.

No. Excellent point. We are not talking about the time scale of Noah as we know it now.

Then you have me more than usually confused. When was the global flood that we're talking about? Generally it's supposed to be about 4,500 years ago

quote:
Cautious scholars are still working to settle a few final time tangles, but their success so far suggests that the Bible’s verifiable time stamps reach back even further than Abraham.4 The lifespans in Genesis 11 span from Abram back to the Flood. When we add the years listed in Genesis 11 to Abram’s birth year 2166 B.C., we get about 2472 B.C.

When Did Noah's Flood Happen?


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1909 by Juvenissun, posted 07-28-2020 10:02 AM Juvenissun has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1911 by Juvenissun, posted 07-28-2020 5:05 PM Tangle has responded

  
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