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Author Topic:   Did the Flood really happen?
ringo
Member (Idle past 439 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 2099 of 2370 (880694)
08-09-2020 3:17 PM
Reply to: Message 2088 by Juvenissun
08-09-2020 6:40 AM


Re: Time scales
Juvenissun writes:
Because I want to emphasize that the global flood is not a flood as we understand it.
Maybe not. But what I ask floodists is: How do you distinguish one big flood from lots of little floods? The evidence that we have is all we have to go on, so how does that evidence point to one big flood?
Juvenssun writes:
So, we can NOT directly compare normal flood products with the consequence of the global flood. For example, a global continuous depositional layer.
Why not?
According to the Bible, the flood waters rose for a while, during which there would have been erosion; then the waters were stable for a while, during which there would have been deposition; then the waters receded, during which there would have been erosion and deposition. It seems quite likely to me that there would be at least one distinct layer that would be, if not on 100% of the earth's surface, at least a very large part of it.

"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2088 by Juvenissun, posted 08-09-2020 6:40 AM Juvenissun has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2101 by Juvenissun, posted 08-09-2020 9:30 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 439 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 2102 of 2370 (880714)
08-09-2020 9:36 PM
Reply to: Message 2101 by Juvenissun
08-09-2020 9:30 PM


Re: Time scales
Juvenissun writes:
Those erosional and depositional features will not exist long.
Why not?
Juvenissun writes:
The oceanic water and oceanic basins ARE the evidences.
How are they evidence?
You need to do more than just post random opinions. You need to back up what you say.

"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2101 by Juvenissun, posted 08-09-2020 9:30 PM Juvenissun has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2103 by Juvenissun, posted 08-10-2020 7:13 AM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 439 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 2104 of 2370 (880720)
08-10-2020 12:10 PM
Reply to: Message 2103 by Juvenissun
08-10-2020 7:13 AM


Re: Time scales
Juvenissun writes:
Flood deposits are loose sediments, they will be quickly washed away.
And they'll be deposited somewhere else.
Juvenissun writes:
Flood entrench channels will last longer. But they will also be eroded away within one million years or so.
Who's talking about a million years? The flood only lasted one year. And it couldn't have been more than a quarter-million years ago because there were no people.
Juvenissun writes:
I am repeating what I said. There is no qualified question to push me say anything more than that. It is not what I don't say. It is what you don't ask.
If I ask and you don't answer, that's a reflection on you, not on me. If you don't answer, it looks like you don't know.
Juvenissun writes:
I am NOT going to give any more information which you do not understand.
Then you're wasting your time here.

"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2103 by Juvenissun, posted 08-10-2020 7:13 AM Juvenissun has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2105 by Juvenissun, posted 08-10-2020 5:25 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 439 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 2106 of 2370 (880750)
08-11-2020 8:43 AM
Reply to: Message 2105 by Juvenissun
08-10-2020 5:25 PM


Re: Time scales
Juvenissun writes:
ringo writes:
And they'll be deposited somewhere else.
Then you will not recognize it as flood sediments.
Why not? They're still deposited during the Flood.

"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2105 by Juvenissun, posted 08-10-2020 5:25 PM Juvenissun has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2107 by Juvenissun, posted 08-11-2020 9:05 AM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 439 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 2108 of 2370 (880758)
08-11-2020 9:17 AM
Reply to: Message 2107 by Juvenissun
08-11-2020 9:05 AM


Re: Time scales
Juvenissun writes:
Sediments deposited during the global flood are no different from any sediments we can see in our normal environment.
They should be. They should be much more widespread than river sediments or lake sediments. Even if there is no single contiguous layer that covers the whole earth, there should be vast areas that are easily distinguishable from lake sediments and river sediments.

"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2107 by Juvenissun, posted 08-11-2020 9:05 AM Juvenissun has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2109 by Juvenissun, posted 08-11-2020 12:05 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 439 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 2110 of 2370 (880767)
08-11-2020 12:16 PM
Reply to: Message 2109 by Juvenissun
08-11-2020 12:05 PM


Re: Time scales
Juvenissun writes:
Once relocated, they don't have any tag to show the origin.
Sure they do. The chemical composition will give clues to where they came from. A flood is not a magic eraser that removes all evidence.

"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2109 by Juvenissun, posted 08-11-2020 12:05 PM Juvenissun has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2111 by Juvenissun, posted 08-11-2020 8:31 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 439 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 2112 of 2370 (880822)
08-11-2020 9:46 PM
Reply to: Message 2111 by Juvenissun
08-11-2020 8:31 PM


Re: Time scales
Juvenissun writes:
Think: where did those sediments come from? They were sediments on the ground BEFORE the Flood.
Some of them were eroded BY the flood.
Juvenissun writes:
Why would they be different from other sediments on the ground?
Because different sediments come from different formations. Some of them come from sandstone, some come from limestone, etc.

"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2111 by Juvenissun, posted 08-11-2020 8:31 PM Juvenissun has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2113 by Juvenissun, posted 08-12-2020 7:57 AM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 439 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(1)
Message 2114 of 2370 (880840)
08-12-2020 12:11 PM
Reply to: Message 2113 by Juvenissun
08-12-2020 7:57 AM


Re: Time scales
Juvenissun writes:
They are normal sediments just like sediments laid down everywhere and every day.
That doesn't seem likely. The amount of sediment depends on how much material was in the water, how much water there was and for how long, etc. The Bible Flood would have had vast amounts of material in vast amounts of water settling out for a long time. We would expect a very deep set of layers to form before the water receded. The receding water would erode the fesh sediment to some extent but not enough to remove all traces.
It seems like you're just making excuses for the fact that there IS no evidence of the Flood.

"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2113 by Juvenissun, posted 08-12-2020 7:57 AM Juvenissun has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2115 by Juvenissun, posted 08-12-2020 8:06 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 439 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 2118 of 2370 (880892)
08-13-2020 12:39 PM
Reply to: Message 2115 by Juvenissun
08-12-2020 8:06 PM


Re: Time scales
Juvenissun writes:
How much sediments is available for deposition?
As much as the flood waters could hold.
Juvenissun writes:
The mud in the soil will suspend in water and be carried to the ocean and deposited in the ocean.
The whole world was ocean. The mud would settle everywhere.
Juvenissun writes:
How do I explain to you that loose sediments DO NOT stay on land for long (say, 100 years)? How about rain. Rain will easily wash them around and eroded them away, or redistribute them to river channel.
I live on a dry lake bed. The clay is up to 15 meters thick and has been there for thousands of years.

"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2115 by Juvenissun, posted 08-12-2020 8:06 PM Juvenissun has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2119 by Juvenissun, posted 08-13-2020 9:12 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 439 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 2120 of 2370 (880925)
08-14-2020 12:15 PM
Reply to: Message 2119 by Juvenissun
08-13-2020 9:12 PM


Re: Time scales
Juvenissun writes:
Then you will not be able to identify which lump of mud came from which direction.
As I said before, the chemical composition of the mud will tell you where it came from.
Juvenissun writes:
Like I said, if sediment was eroded, then it lost the identity of its depositional locality.
And you were wrong. The chemical composition is not changed by erosion. Erosion just makes smaller pieces.

"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2119 by Juvenissun, posted 08-13-2020 9:12 PM Juvenissun has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2121 by Juvenissun, posted 08-14-2020 4:06 PM ringo has replied
 Message 2124 by Minnemooseus, posted 08-15-2020 12:06 AM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 439 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 2123 of 2370 (880942)
08-14-2020 9:25 PM
Reply to: Message 2121 by Juvenissun
08-14-2020 4:06 PM


Re: Time scales
Juvenissun writes:
Chemical composition of sediments are different everywhere.
Yes. That's what gives us clues about what comes from where.
Juvenissun writes:
We do not know what does the chemical composition of the sediments look like during the global flood.
Well, IF there was a global flood, there ought to be traces of it. If there are no traces, you can not legitimately claim that it happened.

"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2121 by Juvenissun, posted 08-14-2020 4:06 PM Juvenissun has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2125 by Juvenissun, posted 08-15-2020 4:46 AM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 439 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 2127 of 2370 (880959)
08-15-2020 8:46 AM
Reply to: Message 2124 by Minnemooseus
08-15-2020 12:06 AM


Re: Weathering and erosion
Moose writes:
Erosion is the movement of the materials.
You can have weathering without having erosion.
Thanks.

"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2124 by Minnemooseus, posted 08-15-2020 12:06 AM Minnemooseus has seen this message but not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 439 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 2128 of 2370 (880960)
08-15-2020 8:49 AM
Reply to: Message 2125 by Juvenissun
08-15-2020 4:46 AM


Re: Time scales
Juvenissun writes:
No.
If you like to know why, then ask.
Since you don't seem to know what you're talking about, I don't see much point in asking you anything. If you have something to say, say it.

"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2125 by Juvenissun, posted 08-15-2020 4:46 AM Juvenissun has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2130 by Juvenissun, posted 08-16-2020 7:33 AM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 439 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 2131 of 2370 (880997)
08-16-2020 9:49 AM
Reply to: Message 2130 by Juvenissun
08-16-2020 7:33 AM


Re: Time scales
Juvenissun writes:
I am not begging you to understand.
Nobody begged you to come here and spout empty opinions. If you have a point to make, it's up to you to make it. I'm not going to drag it out of you.
So if YOU have any questions, feel free to ask. But don't expect to be treated like the guru on the mountain with all the answers.

"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2130 by Juvenissun, posted 08-16-2020 7:33 AM Juvenissun has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2132 by Juvenissun, posted 08-16-2020 3:53 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 439 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 2133 of 2370 (881027)
08-16-2020 3:55 PM
Reply to: Message 2132 by Juvenissun
08-16-2020 3:53 PM


Re: Time scales
Juvenissun writes:
If you said something wrong, I will correct it.
Correct this: There is no evidence that there has ever been a worldwide flood while humans were on earth - i.e. the story of Noah's Ark is fiction.

"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2132 by Juvenissun, posted 08-16-2020 3:53 PM Juvenissun has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2134 by Juvenissun, posted 08-17-2020 8:05 PM ringo has replied

  
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