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Author Topic:   Did the Flood really happen?
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 5123
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 3.1


Message 1621 of 1802 (877597)
06-19-2020 3:43 AM
Reply to: Message 1620 by dad
06-19-2020 2:19 AM


Re: Layers build slowly over time ... lots of time
In your first answer to my question you cited tree rings. Message 1608

So I asked in Message 1609 why you would question tree ring growth.

Do you have some reason to believe trees grew faster a few thousand years in the past?

All of the *facts*, not beliefs, the facts about tree rings is they grow one per year. Do you have any facts, not beliefs, any real facts that dispute this process?

I don't want to hear any of this "but, maybe" crap from you. If you say tree rings grew faster then show us your evidence.


Factio Republicana delenda est.
I am antifa.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1620 by dad, posted 06-19-2020 2:19 AM dad has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1631 by dad, posted 06-21-2020 2:52 PM AZPaul3 has responded

  
vimesey
Member
Posts: 1140
From: Birmingham, England
Joined: 09-21-2011
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 1622 of 1802 (877599)
06-19-2020 5:16 AM
Reply to: Message 1617 by dad
06-19-2020 1:38 AM


Re: Just as the fact that there is no "Bible™" ...
Do you assert that the stories of science about origins are true?

Nah - I point out the Wiki page, which explains how the scientific method works:

Scientific method - Wikipedia

Then I invite anyone who disagrees with the science to present evidence for their particular flavour of woo (Christianity (or the relevant tiny sect of it), Hinduism, pink fairies at the bottom of the garden, etc).

Without evidence, you are, as a matter of definition, unable to attack the current conclusions of the scientific method.

In the absence of evidence which contradicts the current conclusions of the scientific method, those conclusions will continue to operate as valid. Accusing science of failing to address an unevidenced assertion doesn’t cut the mustard.


Could there be any greater conceit, than for someone to believe that the universe has to be simple enough for them to be able to understand it ?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1617 by dad, posted 06-19-2020 1:38 AM dad has not yet responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 18332
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 1.8


Message 1623 of 1802 (877608)
06-19-2020 10:32 AM
Reply to: Message 1619 by dad
06-19-2020 2:16 AM


Re: Just as the fact that there is no "Bible™" ...
dad writes:

No one gets to define science....


Scientists get to define science.

"I'm Fallen and I can't get up!"

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1619 by dad, posted 06-19-2020 2:16 AM dad has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1624 by Phat, posted 06-19-2020 10:39 AM ringo has responded
 Message 1632 by dad, posted 06-21-2020 2:56 PM ringo has responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 14148
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 1624 of 1802 (877610)
06-19-2020 10:39 AM
Reply to: Message 1623 by ringo
06-19-2020 10:32 AM


Re: Just as the fact that there is no "Bible™" ...
Science is very good at defining reality that can be tested. Science will never prove nor disprove God nor the Risen Christ because neither of them can be tested.At least not objectively, which is what you always insists should apply.

“The only way I know to drive out evil from the country is by the constructive method of filling it with good.”Calvin Coolidge
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
“As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.”-RC Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith

- You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do.
Anne Lamott
I Have Strong Arguments Which I Cant Say To You~CG

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1623 by ringo, posted 06-19-2020 10:32 AM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1625 by ringo, posted 06-19-2020 10:45 AM Phat has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 18332
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 1.8


Message 1625 of 1802 (877614)
06-19-2020 10:45 AM
Reply to: Message 1624 by Phat
06-19-2020 10:39 AM


Re: Just as the fact that there is no "Bible™" ...
Phat writes:

Science will never prove nor disprove God nor the Risen Christ because neither of them can be tested.


Actually, they can. It isn't a definitive test but lack of evidence is a test. You accept that lack of evidence indicates non-existence of fairies, Loch Ness Monster, leprechauns, etc. don't you?

And a hiding God is pretty lame theology too.


"I'm Fallen and I can't get up!"

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1624 by Phat, posted 06-19-2020 10:39 AM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1628 by Phat, posted 06-19-2020 10:53 AM ringo has responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 14148
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 1626 of 1802 (877616)
06-19-2020 10:49 AM
Reply to: Message 1613 by dad
06-01-2020 3:35 AM


Dad and Science
vimesey writes:

Assertion.
No evidence.
Fail.

To be precise, the failure in this case is the failure to present a supportable science based challenge. Note that this is a science Forum.

Dad, please listen to moderation. If you stay here at EvC, you will get challenged and perhaps someday will challenge others as your arguments become more refined and you are able to make valid points. If you challenge authority (which is ungodly, by the way) you will simply get suspended and we will be at a loss for not having you around to challenge and refine *our* arguments.

ringo writes:

Again, you do not get to define science. Nobody cares what you think science is.


Well actually some of us *do* care. After all, if you respond to us in a Science Forum, we expect you to respond scientifically rather than emotionally. Which is why I usually stay out of this side of the Forum.

“The only way I know to drive out evil from the country is by the constructive method of filling it with good.”Calvin Coolidge
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
“As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.”-RC Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith

- You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do.
Anne Lamott
I Have Strong Arguments Which I Cant Say To You~CG

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1613 by dad, posted 06-01-2020 3:35 AM dad has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1627 by ringo, posted 06-19-2020 10:52 AM Phat has not yet responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 18332
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 1.8


Message 1627 of 1802 (877617)
06-19-2020 10:52 AM
Reply to: Message 1626 by Phat
06-19-2020 10:49 AM


Re: Dad and Science
Phat writes:

Well actually some of us *do* care.


I wasn't including people who grasp at any straw to prop up their failed beliefs.

"I'm Fallen and I can't get up!"

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1626 by Phat, posted 06-19-2020 10:49 AM Phat has not yet responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 14148
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 1628 of 1802 (877618)
06-19-2020 10:53 AM
Reply to: Message 1625 by ringo
06-19-2020 10:45 AM


Re: Just as the fact that there is no "Bible™" ...
ringo writes:

Actually, they can. It isn't a definitive test but lack of evidence is a test. You accept that lack of evidence indicates non-existence of fairies, Loch Ness Monster, leprechauns, etc. don't you?

Yes but not on the grounds of lack of evidence. I reject them based on my belief.

And a hiding God is pretty lame theology too.
You dont get to define what does and does not *make* God lame. Keep these sorts of comments inj Faith & Belief. You also dont get to define evidence over the entire Forum. You best stick to the science side should you choose to throw that word around.

“The only way I know to drive out evil from the country is by the constructive method of filling it with good.”Calvin Coolidge
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
“As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.”-RC Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith

- You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do.
Anne Lamott
I Have Strong Arguments Which I Cant Say To You~CG

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1625 by ringo, posted 06-19-2020 10:45 AM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1629 by ringo, posted 06-19-2020 11:03 AM Phat has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 18332
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 1.8


Message 1629 of 1802 (877619)
06-19-2020 11:03 AM
Reply to: Message 1628 by Phat
06-19-2020 10:53 AM


Re: Just as the fact that there is no "Bible™" ...
Phat writes:

Yes but not on the grounds of lack of evidence. I reject them based on my belief.


That's much worse, rejecting beliefs that are as valid or more valid than your own just because they interfere with the belief that you fell into by accident.

Phat writes:

You dont get to define what does and does not *make* God lame.


Yes I do.

Phat writes:

You also dont get to define evidence over the entire Forum.


I'm not. I'm using the accepted definition of evidence.

Phat writes:

You best stick to the science side should you choose to throw that word around.


Faith and belief is not necessarily a blind rejection of evidence. We have every right to talk about evidence over here.

"I'm Fallen and I can't get up!"

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1628 by Phat, posted 06-19-2020 10:53 AM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1630 by Phat, posted 06-19-2020 11:08 AM ringo has acknowledged this reply

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 14148
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 1630 of 1802 (877621)
06-19-2020 11:08 AM
Reply to: Message 1629 by ringo
06-19-2020 11:03 AM


Re: Just as the fact that there is no "Bible™" ...
Lets move this discussion over here. Message 47

“The only way I know to drive out evil from the country is by the constructive method of filling it with good.”Calvin Coolidge
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
“As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.”-RC Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith

- You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do.
Anne Lamott
I Have Strong Arguments Which I Cant Say To You~CG

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1629 by ringo, posted 06-19-2020 11:03 AM ringo has acknowledged this reply

  
dad
Member
Posts: 197
Joined: 05-29-2020


Message 1631 of 1802 (877765)
06-21-2020 2:52 PM
Reply to: Message 1621 by AZPaul3
06-19-2020 3:43 AM


Re: Layers build slowly over time ... lots of time
Who cares what anyone believes about how fast trees used to grow? Try using some science.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1621 by AZPaul3, posted 06-19-2020 3:43 AM AZPaul3 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1633 by AZPaul3, posted 06-21-2020 7:29 PM dad has responded

  
dad
Member
Posts: 197
Joined: 05-29-2020


Message 1632 of 1802 (877766)
06-21-2020 2:56 PM
Reply to: Message 1623 by ringo
06-19-2020 10:32 AM


Re: Just as the fact that there is no "Bible™" ...
And Aesop gets to define fables. I am more interested in truth and actual meanings. Belief based conclusion are not knowledge or real science, regardless of what some cultish, deluded, self aggrandizing, clueless eggheads may think, in my humble opinion.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1623 by ringo, posted 06-19-2020 10:32 AM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1634 by ringo, posted 06-21-2020 9:36 PM dad has responded

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 5123
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 3.1


Message 1633 of 1802 (877783)
06-21-2020 7:29 PM
Reply to: Message 1631 by dad
06-21-2020 2:52 PM


Re: Layers build slowly over time ... lots of time
Who cares what anyone believes about how fast trees used to grow?

You care. Message 1608 But you forgot that.

So, again, you got any evidence that "the Nature" changed just enough to negate the damaging facts that make your religious dogmas delusional fantasies?


Factio Republicana delenda est.
I am antifa.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1631 by dad, posted 06-21-2020 2:52 PM dad has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1635 by dad, posted 06-21-2020 11:57 PM AZPaul3 has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 18332
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 1.8


Message 1634 of 1802 (877791)
06-21-2020 9:36 PM
Reply to: Message 1632 by dad
06-21-2020 2:56 PM


Re: Just as the fact that there is no "Bible™" ...
dad writes:

I am more interested in truth and actual meanings.


Clearly not. You haven't presented a single fact to support your position. All you've done is scoff at science.

dad writes:

Belief based conclusion are not knowledge or real science, regardless of what some cultish, deluded, self aggrandizing, clueless eggheads may think, in my humble opinion.


You contradict yourself, Mr. Humility-who-knows-more-than-anybody-else.

"I'm Fallen and I can't get up!"

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1632 by dad, posted 06-21-2020 2:56 PM dad has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1636 by dad, posted 06-21-2020 11:58 PM ringo has responded

  
dad
Member
Posts: 197
Joined: 05-29-2020


Message 1635 of 1802 (877802)
06-21-2020 11:57 PM
Reply to: Message 1633 by AZPaul3
06-21-2020 7:29 PM


Re: Layers build slowly over time ... lots of time
I care how fast trees used to grow, and care about what evidence exists for how fast trees grew. Too bad you have no evidence that nature was either the same or not though, eh? You therefore have nothing we could care about.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1633 by AZPaul3, posted 06-21-2020 7:29 PM AZPaul3 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1637 by AZPaul3, posted 06-22-2020 1:15 AM dad has responded

  
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