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Author Topic:   Did the Flood really happen?
Tangle
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Posts: 7794
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 2.7


Message 1906 of 2012 (880029)
07-28-2020 7:40 AM
Reply to: Message 1904 by Juvenissun
07-28-2020 7:34 AM


Juvenissum writes:

The earth has a unique thing called "continent". The current geological model says, the amount of continent increases gradually from minimum to the current 30%.

Does it indeed. Can I have a source for that please?

Just while you're finding that, are we working on the same time scales? Noah's Flood was about 4,500 years ago?

How old do you think the earth is?


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


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Stile
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Posts: 3972
From: Ontario, Canada
Joined: 12-02-2004
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 1907 of 2012 (880031)
07-28-2020 8:40 AM
Reply to: Message 1905 by Juvenissun
07-28-2020 7:37 AM


Re: help
Stolen from one of our late members:

... as you are new here, some posting tips:

I notice you used html commands, which is fine, but dBcode is simpler with no loss in information. See Posting Tips for some other formatting tips.

type [qs]quotes are easy[/qs] and it becomes:

quotes are easy

or type [quote]quotes are easy[/quote] and it becomes:

quote:
quotes are easy

also check out (help) links on any formatting questions when in the reply window.

Thank-you, RAZD, for always helping where needed.
In Memoriam: RAZD


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Juvenissun
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Posts: 79
Joined: 07-25-2020


Message 1908 of 2012 (880035)
07-28-2020 9:56 AM
Reply to: Message 1907 by Stile
07-28-2020 8:40 AM


Re: help
... as you are new here, some posting tips:

Thanks.


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Juvenissun
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Posts: 79
Joined: 07-25-2020


Message 1909 of 2012 (880037)
07-28-2020 10:02 AM
Reply to: Message 1906 by Tangle
07-28-2020 7:40 AM


Does it indeed. Can I have a source for that please?

Just while you're finding that, are we working on the same time scales? Noah's Flood was about 4,500 years ago?

Look up geologic term: "continental aggregation".
No. Excellent point. We are not talking about the time scale of Noah as we know it now.

I am only talking about the possibility of having the global flood.

Edited by Juvenissun, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1906 by Tangle, posted 07-28-2020 7:40 AM Tangle has responded

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 Message 1910 by Tangle, posted 07-28-2020 12:44 PM Juvenissun has responded

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 7794
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 2.7


Message 1910 of 2012 (880049)
07-28-2020 12:44 PM
Reply to: Message 1909 by Juvenissun
07-28-2020 10:02 AM


Juvenissun writes:

Look up geologic term: "continental aggregation".

No thanks, it's up to you to make your case. Just explain to us why you think 'continental aggregation' can show that a global flood happened.

No. Excellent point. We are not talking about the time scale of Noah as we know it now.

Then you have me more than usually confused. When was the global flood that we're talking about? Generally it's supposed to be about 4,500 years ago

quote:
Cautious scholars are still working to settle a few final time tangles, but their success so far suggests that the Bible’s verifiable time stamps reach back even further than Abraham.4 The lifespans in Genesis 11 span from Abram back to the Flood. When we add the years listed in Genesis 11 to Abram’s birth year 2166 B.C., we get about 2472 B.C.

When Did Noah's Flood Happen?


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1909 by Juvenissun, posted 07-28-2020 10:02 AM Juvenissun has responded

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 Message 1911 by Juvenissun, posted 07-28-2020 5:05 PM Tangle has responded

  
Juvenissun
Member
Posts: 79
Joined: 07-25-2020


Message 1911 of 2012 (880056)
07-28-2020 5:05 PM
Reply to: Message 1910 by Tangle
07-28-2020 12:44 PM


Juvenissun writes:
Look up geologic term: "continental aggregation".
No thanks, it's up to you to make your case. Just explain to us why you think 'continental aggregation' can show that a global flood happened.

No. Excellent point. We are not talking about the time scale of Noah as we know it now.
Then you have me more than usually confused. When was the global flood that we're talking about? Generally it's supposed to be about 4,500 years ago

Noah's Flood is a BIG issue. It includes several major issues and many minor issue. The whole story is closely related to the whole Christian doctrine. So, the exploration HAS TO be restricted to one major (or even minor issue at a time). That is why most (if not all) talks about Noah's Flood are a total confusion.

Do not ask about time, only talk about the possibility and mechanism of the global flood. People usually abandon this discussion even it is very focused.

First, we must agree that a global flood is possible. This is the seawater problem.
Then, we must see how to make it possible. This is the land problem.

Continental Aggregation: A tectonic process through which a continent on the earth becomes larger and larger. If you want to know more, then ask specific question.

Edited by Juvenissun, : No reason given.


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Tangle
Member
Posts: 7794
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 2.7


Message 1912 of 2012 (880059)
07-28-2020 5:42 PM
Reply to: Message 1911 by Juvenissun
07-28-2020 5:05 PM


Juvenissun writes:

Noah's Flood is a BIG issue.

Only to a few fundamental Christians. Other Christians regard it as a myth and non-Christians have never heard of it.

It includes several major issues and many minor issue. The whole story is closely related to the whole Christian doctrine. So, the exploration HAS TO be restricted to one major (or even minor issue at a time). That is why most (if not all) talks about Noah's Flood are a total confusion.

It really isn't very complicated at all, either a global flood occurred or it didn't. If you think it did, then I'm sure you have the evidence to prove it. So give it your best shot.

Do not ask about time, only talk about the possibility and mechanism of the global flood. People usually abandon this discussion even it is very focused.

Ok, so you can't say when this flood was. That's a bad start. Are you disputing the normal dates of about 4,500 years ago? It does matter.

First, we must agree that a global flood is possible.

Many things are possible. Personally I don't think a global flood is one of them, but I'm listening if you can prove it.

This is the seawater problem.
Then, we must see how to make it possible. This is the land problem.

There are a lot of problems. I think your biggest one is providing the evidence of a global flood at all.

Continental Aggregation: A tectonic process through which a continent on the earth becomes larger and larger. If you want to know more, then ask specific question.

You have to show how this is relevant. This is a process that occurs over hundreds of millions of years so you see why it's important for you to say whether you agree with the 'normal' timings for this flood or not.


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1911 by Juvenissun, posted 07-28-2020 5:05 PM Juvenissun has not yet responded

  
ringo
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Posts: 18493
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 1.6


Message 1913 of 2012 (880060)
07-28-2020 5:50 PM
Reply to: Message 1911 by Juvenissun
07-28-2020 5:05 PM


A tectonic process through which a continent on the earth becomes larger and larger.

How does subduction figure in to that? My understanding is that continents - and tectonic plates in general - are growing on one side and shrinking (subducting) on the other, leaving their size roughly constant.

"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

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NosyNed
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Posts: 8939
From: Canada
Joined: 04-04-2003
Member Rating: 4.2


Message 1914 of 2012 (880061)
07-28-2020 6:01 PM
Reply to: Message 1913 by ringo
07-28-2020 5:50 PM


A long, long time ago...
The continents hadn't fully formed and, as I vaguely recall, the tectonics hadn't gotten rolling. This is in the first billion years or 2 but all of this is from memory which is worth just as much as you think it is .

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Pollux
Member
Posts: 260
Joined: 11-13-2011


Message 1915 of 2012 (880064)
07-28-2020 8:28 PM
Reply to: Message 1913 by ringo
07-28-2020 5:50 PM


Continent growth
As an oceanic plate subducts by a continent, it can be carrying bits of land such as islands or a bit of larger land that it rams against the continent.
A great example of that is India plowing into Asia to increase the latter's size.
Part of China used to be adjacent to eastern Australia.
A lot changes over a couple of billion years.
The actual place where the plate bends to subduct can also roll back to change the size of the plate

Edited by Pollux, : Spelling


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Juvenissun
Member
Posts: 79
Joined: 07-25-2020


Message 1916 of 2012 (880065)
07-28-2020 8:58 PM
Reply to: Message 1913 by ringo
07-28-2020 5:50 PM


How does subduction figure in to that? My understanding is that continents - and tectonic plates in general - are growing on one side and shrinking (subducting) on the other, leaving their size roughly constant.

No. Once a piece of continent is made, it will not disappear, even it may split into smaller pieces. That is why the land (continent) on the earth becomes larger and larger through time.

Subduction only makes more continental mass. It is the key process of continental growth.

Edited by Juvenissun, : No reason given.

Edited by Juvenissun, : No reason given.


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ringo
Member
Posts: 18493
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 1.6


Message 1917 of 2012 (880093)
07-29-2020 12:43 PM
Reply to: Message 1915 by Pollux
07-28-2020 8:28 PM


Re: Continent growth
Pollux writes:

As an oceanic plate subducts by a continent, it can be carrying bits of land such as islands or a bit of larger land that it rams against the continent.
A great example of that is India plowing into Asia to increase the latter's size.


But Juvenissun is saying that, "the land (continent) on the earth becomes larger and larger through time." Message 1916

My understanding is that the continents are rearranging their pieces but not changing significantly in total size. Gondwanaland was pretty much the same size as all of today`s continents, wasn`t it)


"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

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ringo
Member
Posts: 18493
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 1.6


Message 1918 of 2012 (880094)
07-29-2020 12:53 PM
Reply to: Message 1916 by Juvenissun
07-28-2020 8:58 PM


Juvenissun writes:

... the land (continent) on the earth becomes larger and larger through time.


That's what I'm questioning. Do you have any evidence that that is happening?

And even if it is true, I don't see what that has to do with the Flood being possible.


"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

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 Message 1916 by Juvenissun, posted 07-28-2020 8:58 PM Juvenissun has responded

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Juvenissun
Member
Posts: 79
Joined: 07-25-2020


Message 1919 of 2012 (880099)
07-29-2020 1:14 PM
Reply to: Message 1918 by ringo
07-29-2020 12:53 PM


That's what I'm questioning. Do you have any evidence that that is happening?
And even if it is true, I don't see what that has to do with the Flood being possible.

Places on continent have different apparent ages. Do you see that is an evidence?

If it is true, then, would you think to flood out a smaller continent is much easier than to do the same to a much larger continent?

Edited by Juvenissun, : No reason given.


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Juvenissun
Member
Posts: 79
Joined: 07-25-2020


Message 1920 of 2012 (880100)
07-29-2020 1:24 PM
Reply to: Message 1917 by ringo
07-29-2020 12:43 PM


Re: Continent growth
But Juvenissun is saying that, "the land (continent) on the earth becomes larger and larger through time." Message 1916
My understanding is that the continents are rearranging their pieces but not changing significantly in total size. Gondwanaland was pretty much the same size as all of today`s continents, wasn`t it)

The oldest continent is measured about 4.x billion years old. Gondawanaland is about 0.3 billion years old. So, there was about 3.x billion years of time to allow the Gondawanaland to "grow" into its size.

Yes, today's land IS slightly larger than that at 300 million years ago. Do you live in the US? The North America continent became a slightly larger in the recent few millions of years.

Edited by Juvenissun, : No reason given.


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