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Author Topic:   Did the Flood really happen?
Tangle
Member
Posts: 7795
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 2.7


Message 1921 of 2012 (880104)
07-29-2020 2:15 PM
Reply to: Message 1920 by Juvenissun
07-29-2020 1:24 PM


Re: Continent growth
What has this got to do with a flood?

Your flood couldn't have been billions or even millions of years ago, people have only been around as modern H.sapiens for at most 200,000 years and your book has the flood only a few thousand years ago so what is the relevance of all this?


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1920 by Juvenissun, posted 07-29-2020 1:24 PM Juvenissun has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1922 by Juvenissun, posted 07-29-2020 8:51 PM Tangle has responded

  
Juvenissun
Member
Posts: 79
Joined: 07-25-2020


Message 1922 of 2012 (880122)
07-29-2020 8:51 PM
Reply to: Message 1921 by Tangle
07-29-2020 2:15 PM


Re: Continent growth
Your flood couldn't have been billions or even millions of years ago, people have only been around as modern H.sapiens for at most 200,000 years and your book has the flood only a few thousand years ago so what is the relevance of all this?

I am talking about the possibility of the global flood. I do not care about other noises. Do you agree that the global flood, at some time in the earth history, is a possibility?

If you agree, I will then, talk about Noah.


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 Message 1921 by Tangle, posted 07-29-2020 2:15 PM Tangle has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1925 by Tangle, posted 07-30-2020 3:20 AM Juvenissun has responded
 Message 1983 by driewerf, posted 08-01-2020 11:37 AM Juvenissun has responded

  
Pollux
Member
Posts: 260
Joined: 11-13-2011


Message 1923 of 2012 (880123)
07-29-2020 8:54 PM
Reply to: Message 1917 by ringo
07-29-2020 12:43 PM


Re: Continent growth
I am not a trained geologist, but l think broadly speaking Juvenissun is correct. A large part of Eastern Australia was added in the last 700,000,000 years from subduction related volcanism, granite formation, pressure related changes.
Gondwanaland break-up was later than that.
When India was approaching Asia it plowed up some of the sea bed to add to it, but also folded up rocks to decrease the area a bit.

Near-coastal volcanism can add area by lava flows. I expect coastal erosion works the other way.


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 Message 1917 by ringo, posted 07-29-2020 12:43 PM ringo has acknowledged this reply

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 Message 1924 by NosyNed, posted 07-29-2020 9:16 PM Pollux has responded
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NosyNed
Member
Posts: 8939
From: Canada
Joined: 04-04-2003
Member Rating: 4.2


Message 1924 of 2012 (880124)
07-29-2020 9:16 PM
Reply to: Message 1923 by Pollux
07-29-2020 8:54 PM


Add one cup of BC
The province I am in on the western edge of Canada is very nearly 100 % additions made as North America plowed westward. That means I'm on "new" continent from about the last 100 megayears.

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Tangle
Member
Posts: 7795
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 2.7


Message 1925 of 2012 (880133)
07-30-2020 3:20 AM
Reply to: Message 1922 by Juvenissun
07-29-2020 8:51 PM


Re: Continent growth
Juvenissun writes:

I am talking about the possibility of the global flood.

There has never been a global flood - ie a time when all the above water land mass on earth was quickly covered with water then uncovered again.

There is some evidence that 3bn years ago most of the earth might have been covered in water, probably with small islands pushing through. The evidence is sparse and requires a lot of further work, but it's an interesting finding.

That is not a flood, it's a waterworld and it's irrelevant to your biblical flood story.

I do not care about other noises.

It doesn't matter what you care about, if you're going to attempt to show that there has been a global flood as written in your bible you're going to have to present the complete case not a tiny bit that you 'care about'.


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1922 by Juvenissun, posted 07-29-2020 8:51 PM Juvenissun has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1927 by Juvenissun, posted 07-30-2020 6:24 AM Tangle has responded

  
Juvenissun
Member
Posts: 79
Joined: 07-25-2020


Message 1926 of 2012 (880138)
07-30-2020 6:14 AM
Reply to: Message 1923 by Pollux
07-29-2020 8:54 PM


Re: Continent growth
I expect coastal erosion works the other way.

Erosion on land does not decrease the continental mass. It actually make the continent wider (at the cost of becoming lower).


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1923 by Pollux, posted 07-29-2020 8:54 PM Pollux has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1928 by Pollux, posted 07-30-2020 7:52 AM Juvenissun has responded

  
Juvenissun
Member
Posts: 79
Joined: 07-25-2020


Message 1927 of 2012 (880139)
07-30-2020 6:24 AM
Reply to: Message 1925 by Tangle
07-30-2020 3:20 AM


Re: Continent growth
It doesn't matter what you care about, if you're going to attempt to show that there has been a global flood as written in your bible you're going to have to present the complete case not a tiny bit that you 'care about'.

At this stage, you either talk about the global flood, or you talk about Noah. Either one of them is complicated enough. To mix them, anyone would quickly get lost unless you can simply deny the whole thing (if so, you should not be here)

OK, a water world, would all the questions about the global flood still be the same? Source of water? Basin of water? You can not run away from the problems just by changing the terms.


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 Message 1925 by Tangle, posted 07-30-2020 3:20 AM Tangle has responded

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 Message 1929 by Tangle, posted 07-30-2020 8:47 AM Juvenissun has responded

  
Pollux
Member
Posts: 260
Joined: 11-13-2011


Message 1928 of 2012 (880141)
07-30-2020 7:52 AM
Reply to: Message 1926 by Juvenissun
07-30-2020 6:14 AM


Re: Continent growth
I did specify COASTAL erosion such as shown in the coast of Victoria Australia where the limestone is eroded away to produce the Twelve Apostles and other formations.
This is decreasing the area, albeit slowly and by a small amount.

Also l remembered Zealandia which is submerged continental crust between Australia and New Zealand and which was formerly attached to Gondwana.


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 Message 1926 by Juvenissun, posted 07-30-2020 6:14 AM Juvenissun has responded

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 Message 1930 by Juvenissun, posted 07-30-2020 9:16 AM Pollux has not yet responded

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 7795
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 2.7


(1)
Message 1929 of 2012 (880143)
07-30-2020 8:47 AM
Reply to: Message 1927 by Juvenissun
07-30-2020 6:24 AM


Re: Continent growth
Juvenissun writes:

At this stage, you either talk about the global flood, or you talk about Noah. Either one of them is complicated enough.

Neither are complicated and they are the same thing - Noah's flood IS the global flood that you're not talking about.

To mix them, anyone would quickly get lost unless you can simply deny the whole thing (if so, you should not be here)

We're not mixing anything, are you or are you not talking about Noah's flood? We're very used to talking about the flood, there's endless threads on it - just get on with it, you'll find us quite capable of keeping up with you so long as you don't carry on obfuscating like this.

OK, a water world, would all the questions about the global flood still be the same? Source of water? Basin of water? You can not run away from the problems just by changing the terms.

First, the idea of a water world is not yet established, second those that are proposing it are not suggesting that the entire world was submerged, they imagine many islands - micro-continents - above the water. Third, as far as we know, the continent of Gwandano rose from the oceans as the earth's core cooled about half a billion years ago.

There is no flood here nor anything in the supposed timescales of your flood.


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1927 by Juvenissun, posted 07-30-2020 6:24 AM Juvenissun has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1931 by Juvenissun, posted 07-30-2020 9:18 AM Tangle has responded

  
Juvenissun
Member
Posts: 79
Joined: 07-25-2020


Message 1930 of 2012 (880145)
07-30-2020 9:16 AM
Reply to: Message 1928 by Pollux
07-30-2020 7:52 AM


Re: Continent growth
I did specify COASTAL erosion such as shown in the coast of Victoria Australia where the limestone is eroded away to produce the Twelve Apostles and other formations.
This is decreasing the area, albeit slowly and by a small amount.

Coastal reef can be counted as a part of the continent IF it eventually becomes a limestone strata. Overall, carbonate rock is not really a permanent residence of a continent.


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 Message 1928 by Pollux, posted 07-30-2020 7:52 AM Pollux has not yet responded

  
Juvenissun
Member
Posts: 79
Joined: 07-25-2020


Message 1931 of 2012 (880146)
07-30-2020 9:18 AM
Reply to: Message 1929 by Tangle
07-30-2020 8:47 AM


Re: Continent growth
Third, as far as we know, the continent of Gwandano rose from the oceans as the earth's core cooled about half a billion years ago.

This is a very ignorant statement.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1929 by Tangle, posted 07-30-2020 8:47 AM Tangle has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1936 by Tangle, posted 07-30-2020 9:38 AM Juvenissun has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 18493
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 1.6


Message 1932 of 2012 (880147)
07-30-2020 9:19 AM
Reply to: Message 1919 by Juvenissun
07-29-2020 1:14 PM


Juvenissun writes:

Places on continent have different apparent ages. Do you see that is an evidence?


Different places have different actual ages.

And no, I don't see what the age of a place has to do with the possibility of a flood, especially a worldwide flood.

Juvenissun writes:

... would you think to flood out a smaller continent is much easier than to do the same to a much larger continent?


How easy it is to flood a continent depends on the height as well as the area (assuming we want to cover all of the land). But that depends on how high the highest land is, not on the size of the continents.

"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1919 by Juvenissun, posted 07-29-2020 1:14 PM Juvenissun has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1933 by Juvenissun, posted 07-30-2020 9:23 AM ringo has responded

  
Juvenissun
Member
Posts: 79
Joined: 07-25-2020


Message 1933 of 2012 (880150)
07-30-2020 9:23 AM
Reply to: Message 1932 by ringo
07-30-2020 9:19 AM


How easy it is to flood a continent depends on the height as well as the area (assuming we want to cover all of the land). But that depends on how high the highest land is, not on the size of the continents.

In general, the smaller the continent, the lower (above the sea level) the continent. Some oceanic islands may look like exceptions. But an oceanic island is not a continent.

The lower the continent, the easier to get overrun by seawater.

Edited by Juvenissun, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1932 by ringo, posted 07-30-2020 9:19 AM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1935 by ringo, posted 07-30-2020 9:31 AM Juvenissun has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 18493
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 1.6


(1)
Message 1934 of 2012 (880151)
07-30-2020 9:28 AM
Reply to: Message 1920 by Juvenissun
07-29-2020 1:24 PM


Re: Continent growth
Juvenissun writes:

So, there was about 3.x billion years of time to allow the Gondawanaland to "grow" into its size.


We're talking about the Biblical Flood here. If a flood was possible long before there were people on earth, that is not relevant to this discussion.

"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1920 by Juvenissun, posted 07-29-2020 1:24 PM Juvenissun has not yet responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 18493
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 1.6


Message 1935 of 2012 (880154)
07-30-2020 9:31 AM
Reply to: Message 1933 by Juvenissun
07-30-2020 9:23 AM


Juvenissun writes:

The lower the continent, the easier to get overrun by seawater.


That's irrelevant. For the Biblical Flood to happen, the highest point on earth has to be covered, no matter what continent it's on.

"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1933 by Juvenissun, posted 07-30-2020 9:23 AM Juvenissun has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1937 by Juvenissun, posted 07-30-2020 9:39 AM ringo has responded

  
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