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Author Topic:   Did the Flood really happen?
Juvenissun
Member
Posts: 332
Joined: 07-25-2020


Message 2311 of 2365 (881643)
08-26-2020 6:37 PM
Reply to: Message 2307 by dwise1
08-26-2020 6:20 PM


Re: Time scales
There has not been a flood on the moon. The moon rocks are bone dry and moon rocks can not change like the same rocks would do on the earth. So the moon rocks stopped generating water soon after their formation.

WHERE did I dodged the question? I gave MORE than it is needed.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 2307 by dwise1, posted 08-26-2020 6:20 PM dwise1 has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 2318 by PaulK, posted 08-27-2020 1:03 AM Juvenissun has responded

  
Juvenissun
Member
Posts: 332
Joined: 07-25-2020


Message 2312 of 2365 (881644)
08-26-2020 6:39 PM
Reply to: Message 2298 by dwise1
08-26-2020 1:32 PM


Re: Time scales
You must have a lot time to waste in this writing. Have nothing better to do?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2298 by dwise1, posted 08-26-2020 1:32 PM dwise1 has responded

Replies to this message:
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Pollux
Member
Posts: 271
Joined: 11-13-2011


(1)
Message 2313 of 2365 (881648)
08-26-2020 6:52 PM
Reply to: Message 2304 by Juvenissun
08-26-2020 6:04 PM


Re:Earth rotation
The Earth is slowing by two milliseconds per century, not per year, and so will be faster in Jurassic times,not slower, by about 2000 seconds. This is borne out by study of growth lines in ancient corals.

Moving of mass around on the surface of the Earth will not change its orbit.

And how do eroded products from the Himalayas finish up on the mantle?


This message is a reply to:
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dwise1
Member
Posts: 4365
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 4.6


Message 2314 of 2365 (881650)
08-26-2020 8:21 PM
Reply to: Message 2304 by Juvenissun
08-26-2020 6:04 PM


Re: Time scales
Your stuff read much better now. And thanks for giving so much information. It is tooo long, and I don't know how to respond to all of them.

It was as long as it needed to be. Besides, it is very difficult to tell how extensive your abject ignorance is, so we don't know whether the very basic knowledge that we leave out isn't one of the many things that you do not know. Therefore, we are forced to make our messages much more complete. We cannot afford to assume anything about what you know and what you don't.

There is no butterfly effect in the geologic process. Even it has, the rate would be too slow to see the impact.

What you wrote was invoking the butterfly effect, so I had to address it and show that it doesn't come into play here. I assume that we now agree on this point.

What I am talking about is a single simple process, but continued for millions of years.

Which I did address. So is this your concession that you agree with my treatment of the subject? Since you say nothing about it, that must be the case.

If the earth rotation slowed down 2E-3 sec. per year, then in 2E8 years (back to the Jurrasic time), the earth would be 1E5 sec. slower in spinning.

Ah, but what if the earth rotation slowed down 2,000,000 seconds per minute? Then what impossible consequences would that have?

Earth's rotation is not slowing down 2 milliseconds per year, nowhere near that impossible rate -- and just where in the hell did you get that impossibly false rate from? The actual rate is 2 ms per day per century, which means that after 100 years the day will be 2 milliseconds longer than it had been one hundred years before. I've already told you that multiple times and now have explained the history of it to you (which is on my web page about the creationist leap second claim, but which you would never ever dare to even look at for fear of possibly learning something).

Leap seconds are a very real thing; I know that because I worked with them in conjunction with GPS receivers which I worked with for the last two decades of my career. They actually work in exactly the same way that leap years work. A year is 365.25 (approx) days long, so you have three years that are 365 days long and then every fourth year you add a day to bring everything back into sync (actually, it's a quarter day minus about 11 minutes, which is why the Gregorian correction is needed).

Leap seconds are just the same thing. Every single day that goes by, Coordinated Universal Time (UTC, which is the time that we set our clocks to) drifts away from Atomic Time by 2 ms per day. After 18 months, we have drifted away from official time by one second, so we add a "leap second" to sync mean solar time back up with atomic time. It's just that simple.

OK, some basic math here. Every UTC day is 2 ms longer than a day in official atomic time. One day goes by and we're off by 2 ms. A second day goes by and we're now 4 ms off. A third day and it's now 6 ms that we are off. And so on and so on. The accumulation of 2 ms cumulative error per day over a period of 18 months amounts to an accumulated error of about one second.

Well, some stupid creationists (eg, Walt Brown) misinterpreted the leap second as meaning that adding that leap second every 18 months meant that the earth's rotation was slowing down at the rate of one second every 18 months, which is absolutely ridiculous.

If the earth rotation slowed down 2E-3 sec. per year, then in 2E8 years (back to the Jurrasic time), the earth would be 1E5 sec. slower in spinning.

As I just now demonstrated, that is all nothing but complete and utter stupid nonsense.

Really?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 2304 by Juvenissun, posted 08-26-2020 6:04 PM Juvenissun has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 2320 by Juvenissun, posted 08-27-2020 11:59 AM dwise1 has responded

  
dwise1
Member
Posts: 4365
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 4.6


Message 2315 of 2365 (881651)
08-26-2020 8:35 PM
Reply to: Message 2312 by Juvenissun
08-26-2020 6:39 PM


Re: Time scales
You must have a lot time to waste in this writing. Have nothing better to do?

Well, part of agonizing the swine is the satisfaction of making them squeal.

You are trying to fraudulently promote yourself as being a geologist.

Everything that you have posted has demonstrated that you have absolutely no idea what the fuck you are talking about.

Even geologists normally demonstrate that they know what they are talking about.

You on the the other hand have demonstrated repeatedly and consistently that you have absolutely no fucking idea what you are blathering on about.

 

So then, you want to claim that you are an actual geologist. So then just what the fuck do you base that claim on?

If you had any actual credentials, you should have absolutely no problem answering that question.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 2312 by Juvenissun, posted 08-26-2020 6:39 PM Juvenissun has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 2316 by jar, posted 08-26-2020 8:43 PM dwise1 has not yet responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 33010
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.0


Message 2316 of 2365 (881653)
08-26-2020 8:43 PM
Reply to: Message 2315 by dwise1
08-26-2020 8:35 PM


Re: Time scales
Well, a red brick is kinda a geologist.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2315 by dwise1, posted 08-26-2020 8:35 PM dwise1 has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
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Pollux
Member
Posts: 271
Joined: 11-13-2011


Message 2317 of 2365 (881654)
08-26-2020 9:54 PM
Reply to: Message 2309 by Juvenissun
08-26-2020 6:29 PM


Himalaya erosion
Eroding mountains will not affect the length of the year, because all the eroded particles are still orbiting at the same rate, and they are tiny fraction of the Earth's mass. There is a measurable effect on the ROTATION of the Earth from quakes and redistribution of mass, but it is also tiny.

Anyway, erosion of Himalayas would only reverse the effect of their initial elevation by India colliding with Asia.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 2309 by Juvenissun, posted 08-26-2020 6:29 PM Juvenissun has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 2334 by dwise1, posted 08-27-2020 1:56 PM Pollux has not yet responded

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 16623
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 3.1


Message 2318 of 2365 (881657)
08-27-2020 1:03 AM
Reply to: Message 2311 by Juvenissun
08-26-2020 6:37 PM


Re: Time scales
quote:
WHERE did I dodged the question? I gave MORE than it is needed.

I take it then, that your answer was simply unclear, and “absolutely nothing” is what you meant. Because your answer says nothing relevant at all.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 2311 by Juvenissun, posted 08-26-2020 6:37 PM Juvenissun has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 2325 by Juvenissun, posted 08-27-2020 12:47 PM PaulK has responded

  
Adminnemooseus
Director
Posts: 3932
Joined: 09-26-2002


(1)
Message 2319 of 2365 (881658)
08-27-2020 2:03 AM


Topic abandonment may trigger the wrath of moose
I have just "bumped" the page top announcement such that it will flash until being read. There is no excuse for not seeing and reading that message.

Every message in this topic (and any other science topics) must have some real content relating to the topic's theme.

This topic's theme is pretty well defined by the topic title, "Did the Flood really happen?", the "Flood" being that as described in the Bible.

Juvenissun's topic related message content has been all but nonexistent, and the replies to his/her messages have often not been any better.

I'm ready to start doing suspensions towards anyone who can't get in touch with the topic theme.

Any replies to this message MUST go to the General Discussion Of Moderation Procedures (aka 'The Whine List') topic. To reply to this message in this topic is to make the moose angry.

Adminnemooseus


Or something like that©.

Replies to this message:
 Message 2322 by Juvenissun, posted 08-27-2020 12:23 PM Adminnemooseus has responded

  
Juvenissun
Member
Posts: 332
Joined: 07-25-2020


Message 2320 of 2365 (881671)
08-27-2020 11:59 AM
Reply to: Message 2314 by dwise1
08-26-2020 8:21 PM


Re: Time scales
The actual rate is 2 ms per day per century, which means that after 100 years the day will be 2 milliseconds longer than it had been one hundred years before.

OK, I misquoted the unit. Sorry.

This argument just emphasized on that a tiny change may become significant through the geologic time. That, basically, is not directly related to my orbit change idea by collisions between the earth and other celestial bodies.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 2314 by dwise1, posted 08-26-2020 8:21 PM dwise1 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 2333 by dwise1, posted 08-27-2020 1:45 PM Juvenissun has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 18809
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.9


Message 2321 of 2365 (881673)
08-27-2020 12:17 PM
Reply to: Message 2303 by Juvenissun
08-26-2020 5:38 PM


Re: Time scales
Juvenissun writes:

There has not been a flood on the moon. The moon rocks are bone dry and moon rocks can not change like the same rocks would do on the earth. So the moon rocks stopped generating water soon after their formation.

Is it enough?


So maybe you know why there was never a flood on the moon. But what has that got to do with a flood on EARTH? What is there ON EARTH that makes a flood possible HERE? And if you say "granite," you have to explain HOW granite makes a flood possible here.

"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2303 by Juvenissun, posted 08-26-2020 5:38 PM Juvenissun has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 2323 by Juvenissun, posted 08-27-2020 12:32 PM ringo has responded

  
Juvenissun
Member
Posts: 332
Joined: 07-25-2020


Message 2322 of 2365 (881674)
08-27-2020 12:23 PM
Reply to: Message 2319 by Adminnemooseus
08-27-2020 2:03 AM


Re: Topic abandonment may trigger the wrath of moose
This topic's theme is pretty well defined by the topic title, "Did the Flood really happen?", the "Flood" being that as described in the Bible.

Juvenissun's topic related message content has been all but nonexistent, and the replies to his/her messages have often not been any better.

Honestly, if any of my arguments is not related to the Flood, I won't spend time doing it in this thread. The Flood is a BIG issue. It involves many many subtopics. TIME is a critical one of them. Like I said, if Noah is not real, then the Flood will not be real. Is a 960-year old Noah real? That is the issue in the recent posts.

Noah's age and time are not that much geology related, and I am not that good to talk about it. However, you may not say that what I argued about is not related to the Flood. Everything, when you examine it in very detail, it tends to become an issue apparently deviated from the issue on the surface.

In fact, I could quite the issue of earth's orbit and start another intrinsic factor about time, which is critical to the Flood. I am the one who is leading the direction of talk in this thread. The others just blindly followed my step, and are busy in criticizing whatever I talked about. A test of this would be that if I quit talking about earth's orbit, no one would mention this issue again.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 2319 by Adminnemooseus, posted 08-27-2020 2:03 AM Adminnemooseus has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 2355 by Adminnemooseus, posted 08-28-2020 12:09 AM Juvenissun has not yet responded

  
Juvenissun
Member
Posts: 332
Joined: 07-25-2020


Message 2323 of 2365 (881675)
08-27-2020 12:32 PM
Reply to: Message 2321 by ringo
08-27-2020 12:17 PM


Re: Time scales
So maybe you know why there was never a flood on the moon. But what has that got to do with a flood on EARTH? What is there ON EARTH that makes a flood possible HERE? And if you say "granite," you have to explain HOW granite makes a flood possible here.

Your question is a logic followup. It is good one when compared to those asked by others.

If we can squeeze the moon into the mantle of the earth, then the moon rocks will start to generate water again. The key is that earth is big enough and is dynamic enough for the water to be made. While the moon is too small to do that. That is why we say that the moon is almost geologically dead. (curious about possible activity in the core of moon). When the moon was young and active, some water was generated by moon rocks. That is why we can find a small amount of ice on the moon today.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 2321 by ringo, posted 08-27-2020 12:17 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 2324 by ringo, posted 08-27-2020 12:45 PM Juvenissun has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 18809
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.9


Message 2324 of 2365 (881678)
08-27-2020 12:45 PM
Reply to: Message 2323 by Juvenissun
08-27-2020 12:32 PM


Re: Time scales
Juvenissun writes:

If we can squeeze the moon into the mantle of the earth, then the moon rocks will start to generate water again.


THAT is where your problem is. You have to show that rocks generate water. Explain it very specifically.

You don't need to mention the moon at all.


"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2323 by Juvenissun, posted 08-27-2020 12:32 PM Juvenissun has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 2326 by Juvenissun, posted 08-27-2020 12:55 PM ringo has responded

  
Juvenissun
Member
Posts: 332
Joined: 07-25-2020


Message 2325 of 2365 (881679)
08-27-2020 12:47 PM
Reply to: Message 2318 by PaulK
08-27-2020 1:03 AM


Re: Time scales
I take it then, that your answer was simply unclear, and “absolutely nothing” is what you meant. Because your answer says nothing relevant at all.

My answer has some serious words in it. Why is it nothing?

Please do not answer this question.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 2318 by PaulK, posted 08-27-2020 1:03 AM PaulK has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 2327 by PaulK, posted 08-27-2020 12:56 PM Juvenissun has responded

  
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