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Author Topic:   Did the Flood really happen?
RAZD
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Posts: 20036
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
Member Rating: 2.9


Message 76 of 1255 (857267)
07-07-2019 7:56 AM
Reply to: Message 73 by Faith
07-07-2019 7:29 AM


Re: Basics Physics
RAZD himself once demonstrated how Walther's Law accounts for the sorting of all the layers in the Grand Canyon area.

Message 39

quote:
Take a piece of paper and make 5 colored columns
Cut the paper into strips

   Continental Land          Sands         Siliciclastic Muds  Carbonate SedimentsCoccolith Foram Ooze

Take your list of Grand Canyon rocks from Message 27 and start at the bottom:


and Message 40 on the Depositional Models of Sea Transgressions/Regressions - Walther's Law thread

quote:
This is what I get (using your list) as a simple\simplistic application of the model to the Grand Canyon rocks:


.......................... Kaibab/limestone ..........................
....................... Toroweap/gypsum/shale ........................
......................... Coconino/sandstone .........................
........................... Hermit/shale .............................
........................ Esplanade/sandstone .........................
........................ Wescogame/sandstone .........................
......................... Mankacha/limestone .........................
........................ Watahomigi/limestone ........................
......................... Redwall/limestone ..........................
....................... Temple Butte/limestone .......................
........................... Muav/limestone ...........................
......................... Bright Angel/Shale .........................
......................... Tapeats/Sandstone ..........................
....................Vishnu/Zoroaster/Unconformity ....................

Now you might get a slightly different arrangement depending on how you classify some of the layer rocks (sandy limestone for instance), but you should get the general idea: when the sand is being deposited for the sandstone layers there is also mud, carbonate and ooze being deposited somewhere else at the same time.

This can, of course be tested.


Note that gray layers are dry land layers. This shows transgression followed by regression followed by transgression topped by an unconformity erosion.

Enjoy


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAmerican☆Zen☯Deist
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RAZD
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Posts: 20036
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
Member Rating: 2.9


(1)
Message 77 of 1255 (857268)
07-07-2019 8:30 AM
Reply to: Message 75 by Faith
07-07-2019 7:55 AM


Re: sedimentary layers, Walther's Law,
As long as you can make up "rapid dumping" I can make up "rapid organized deposition." ...

I believe "rapid dumping" was referring to your model of a world wide flood dumping massive amounts of sediment to create the layers.

What you would see from "rapid organized deposition" would be stratification of material from coarse at the bottom to fine at the top -- organized by Stoke's Law (basic physics). You would not see coarse layers covering fine layers.

Enjoy


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAmerican☆Zen☯Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


• • • Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click) • • •

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PaulK
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Posts: 15318
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.7


(1)
Message 78 of 1255 (857269)
07-07-2019 8:35 AM
Reply to: Message 75 by Faith
07-07-2019 7:55 AM


Re: sedimentary layers, Walther's Law,
quote:

As long as you can make up "rapid dumping"

I didn’t make it up. It’s pretty obvious that it’s part of your ideas. You want massive volumes of sediment deposited in a single year.

quote:

I can make up "rapid organized deposition”

Making up nonsense is your main argument, so go ahead and do it again. We both know that there is nothing to organise the sediments in the way that you need.

quote:

You weren't there and neither was I but the results are there and the Flood did it.

And there is your problem. You start by assuming the Flood and try to force everything to fit. But you weren’t there. The only way to know if the Flood occurred at all is through the evidence. And the evidence says that it didn’t. That is why you have to make up nonsense.

Edited by PaulK, : No reason given.


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jar
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Posts: 31177
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.7


Message 79 of 1255 (857270)
07-07-2019 8:40 AM
Reply to: Message 73 by Faith
07-07-2019 7:29 AM


Re: Basics Physics
But that has nothing to do with how a flood sorts stuff.

You need to show how your flood can sort things the way they are found in reality and so far no one has ever been able to do that.

No one!

Ever!

Edited by jar, : appalin spallin


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios � � My Website: My Website

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jar
Member
Posts: 31177
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.7


Message 80 of 1255 (857271)
07-07-2019 9:06 AM


Not just target but TARGETS
Remember the target example? If a claim is made that the target was hit but when the target is examined there is no hole found then the conclusion is that the claim that the target was hit is false.

But the two Bible Flood stories go further. They claim they covered every spot on the Earth; not just one target but every single target that exists.

The existence of the Bible Stories is the single greatest obstacle to the actuality of either flood. Any one that claims either of the floods actually happens must be able to use just the information in the stories to explain the actual conditions found in reality.

Every single observation ever made about anywhere or anything found on the Earth today.

They have no wiggle room. Just one observation that they cannot provide the model, process, method, mechanism or means that explains what is seen totally and completely and irrevocably shows that the Biblical Flood did not happen.

Just one single target with no hole.

That's all that is needed to prove the Biblical floods did not happen.


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios � � My Website: My Website

  
Faith
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Posts: 32661
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 81 of 1255 (857272)
07-07-2019 9:39 AM


Scoffers denying the Flood shall come in the last days
Well, jar, I'm tired, depressed, overwhelmed and don't want to be on this thread, so I will leave you with this:

Science does not judge the Bible, the Bible judges science and all of us and everything else.

2Pe 3:3-6

There shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.

For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: 6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished...

Pretty clearly talking about one Flood there, as is also the case wherever else in the Bible the Flood is referenced.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


Replies to this message:
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JonF
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Posts: 5328
Joined: 06-23-2003
Member Rating: 2.4


Message 82 of 1255 (857273)
07-07-2019 9:41 AM
Reply to: Message 59 by Faith
07-07-2019 1:54 AM


Re: By Faith from
there are lots of demonstrations of water, both rushing water and still water, depositing separate layers of sediment.

Only in confined flumes, which are nothing like the unconfined mass of water you propose.

Edited by JonF, : No reason given.


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JonF
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Posts: 5328
Joined: 06-23-2003
Member Rating: 2.4


Message 83 of 1255 (857274)
07-07-2019 9:44 AM
Reply to: Message 70 by Faith
07-07-2019 7:00 AM


Re: sedimentary layers, Walther's Law,
Water was water.

Gravity was gravity.

We know all about water and gravity. The alleged fludde was water under the action of gravity.


This message is a reply to:
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PaulK
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Posts: 15318
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.7


Message 84 of 1255 (857275)
07-07-2019 9:50 AM
Reply to: Message 81 by Faith
07-07-2019 9:39 AM


Re: Scoffers denying the *Second Coming* shall come in the last days
quote:

Science does not judge the Bible, the Bible judges science and all of us and everything else.

According to your sectarian dogma. But your dogma is not the Bible, at best it is an interpretation of the Bible.

But then you refuse to argue the theology - which is odd because it is hard to imagine how you could understand it less than the science or have worse arguments. But I guess that must be the case - why else would you avoid the real issues ?

quote:

Pretty clearly talking about one Flood there, as is also the case wherever else in the Bible the Flood is referenced.

And the author - even if it was Peter - might well have believed the Flood story and used it as a parallel to the sudden and unexpected end that was due to arrive soon. Except that it never did, and the scoffers were vindicated.

Edited by PaulK, : No reason given.


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 Message 81 by Faith, posted 07-07-2019 9:39 AM Faith has not yet responded

    
Admin
Director
Posts: 12618
From: EvC Forum
Joined: 06-14-2002
Member Rating: 3.1


Message 85 of 1255 (857277)
07-07-2019 10:33 AM
Reply to: Message 66 by Faith
07-07-2019 5:08 AM


Re: Siberian Traps volcanics at the Paleozoic/Mesozoic boundary
Faith writes:

I keep putting brackets in the wrong place and losing my post.

Please describe this problem in greater detail so I can replicate and fix.


--Percy
EvC Forum Director

This message is a reply to:
 Message 66 by Faith, posted 07-07-2019 5:08 AM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 91 by Faith, posted 07-07-2019 11:14 AM Admin has responded

    
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 6489
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.4


(2)
Message 86 of 1255 (857278)
07-07-2019 10:42 AM
Reply to: Message 30 by RAZD
07-06-2019 10:38 AM


Re: If there was a Biblical Flood, no one noticed.
Faith writes:

I figure I would have to personally examine the tree rings very closely to arrive at a meaningful theory.


Freaking hilarious. Here is the key issue with all the fundies. They actually think that expertise means nothing. They truly think that they are as capable of understanding ALL aspects of science as well as experts in the fields. As if she could actually examine never mind understand the tree rings. This is the same nutball that claims she can't read her computer screen and thinks she will be able to count tree rings.
Aren't there admonitions against hubris in their works of scripture?

Edited by Admin, : Fix typo.


Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
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Theodoric
Member
Posts: 6489
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.4


Message 87 of 1255 (857279)
07-07-2019 10:45 AM
Reply to: Message 36 by Faith
07-06-2019 11:01 AM


Re: By Faith from
The bible doesn't say that there weren't flying sharks with lasers for eyes either. So I guess there must have been how the Israelites were able to escape from the Egyptians.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 36 by Faith, posted 07-06-2019 11:01 AM Faith has not yet responded

    
Sarah Bellum
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Posts: 413
Joined: 05-04-2019
Member Rating: 1.6


Message 88 of 1255 (857280)
07-07-2019 10:49 AM
Reply to: Message 59 by Faith
07-07-2019 1:54 AM


Re: By Faith from
For your flood to produce the layers we see would require a miracle. Not just the layers of lava, but the problems with the locations of fossils. Larger, denser fossils would be found at lower levels, smaller, lighter at higher levels. Unless the waters were extremely turbulent, but then we'd see everything mixed together, humans with trilobites and dinosaurs with wolves, etc.

Then there's the problem of how it all turned from mud and carcasses to shale, sandstone, limestone, etc. in only a few thousand years.


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 Message 59 by Faith, posted 07-07-2019 1:54 AM Faith has not yet responded

    
Percy
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Posts: 18800
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.2


(1)
Message 89 of 1255 (857281)
07-07-2019 10:50 AM
Reply to: Message 71 by RAZD
07-07-2019 7:14 AM


Re: sedimentary layers, Walther's Law,
RAZD writes:

In a transgression (rising sea level) fine layers are deposited over coarse layers, not the other way around, according to Walther's Law.

And in regressions the opposite occurs since the active waters of the shoreline are the last to be on top.

Faith has never understood Walther's Law. She thinks it's a rapid process rather than a very slow one, that it describes a rapidly rising sea flooding the land and depositing fine-grained sediments in a stratified sequence.

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
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Theodoric
Member
Posts: 6489
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.4


Message 90 of 1255 (857285)
07-07-2019 10:59 AM
Reply to: Message 57 by dwise1
07-06-2019 11:03 PM


Re: Then there is the matter of Index Fossils
And Ned Ludd is a fictional character.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ned_Ludd
Like Jesus.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 57 by dwise1, posted 07-06-2019 11:03 PM dwise1 has not yet responded

    
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