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Author Topic:   The Defeat of Flood Geology by Flood Geology
Tangle
Member
Posts: 7795
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 2.7


Message 16 of 22 (880226)
07-31-2020 6:56 AM
Reply to: Message 15 by Juvenissun
07-31-2020 6:21 AM


Junenisun writes:

I guess there is no geologist in this entire EvC forum now.

Sure there is, you, apparently.


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 15 by Juvenissun, posted 07-31-2020 6:21 AM Juvenissun has responded

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 Message 17 by Juvenissun, posted 07-31-2020 10:43 AM Tangle has not yet responded

  
Juvenissun
Member
Posts: 79
Joined: 07-25-2020


Message 17 of 22 (880240)
07-31-2020 10:43 AM
Reply to: Message 16 by Tangle
07-31-2020 6:56 AM


I don't understand. Why don't geologist come to this kind of forum. Did they come and leave? I met a few with MS degree in geology. But they did not talk much. I also know a few Ph.D. in Earth Sciences. But they are not in geology.

One reason I can think of is that you people disappointed them too much. It is not about Christianity, but is on the way you people talked. You do not really care about geology, but are trying to insult them with arrogance.

This is not good for EvC. That is why this subforum in Science is almost dead.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 16 by Tangle, posted 07-31-2020 6:56 AM Tangle has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 18 by Phat, posted 07-31-2020 11:19 AM Juvenissun has responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 14272
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 18 of 22 (880250)
07-31-2020 11:19 AM
Reply to: Message 17 by Juvenissun
07-31-2020 10:43 AM


Evolution vs YEC and Creationism in general in 2020
Juvenisssun writes:

Why don't geologist come to this kind of forum. Did they come and leave? I met a few with MS degree in geology. But they did not talk much. I also know a few Ph.D. in Earth Sciences. But they are not in geology.
One reason I can think of is that you people disappointed them too much. It is not about Christianity, but is on the way you people talked. You do not really care about geology, but are trying to insult them with arrogance.

I will attempt to honestly answer your question because I discern that you are not a troll but are determined to understand more about what you believe and why its not more widespread. First off, it is true that many here at EvC can be arrogant. The site basically runs itself. It is a bastion of respectful free speech and is a bit of a shared blog among many members who have been here a long time. We used to moderate more than we do now because the members who are here *should* know to be more respectful towards new members and the majority of new members who come here are a bit immature and end up getting themselves banned because they are frustrated with the arguments. The main reason more Geologists don't come here (in my opinion) is because they have other ways to talk shop amongst themselves and, like all of us, don't engage in social media to talk shop.

I will tell you this. The scientific minds at this forum are quite well adept at basic Critical Thinking and logic, reason and reality. They have encountered many PRATTS (Points refuted A Thousand Times) and years ago argued with many creationists who could never support their arguments with the basic scientific method and in fact had an alternate point of view. Please forgive them for being insulting to you. They are challenging you to think about things the way that mainstream Geology,Anthropology, Ecology, and on my side of the Forum, Philosophy and Theology think.

Let me ask you some questions in order to get a handle on whether you want to learn, teach, or both. May I?
1) Have you ever heard of Dr.Henry Morris? What do you think of the ICR?
2)Do you know who Ken Ham is and what he teaches? Do you agree or disagree with his conclusions?

You say that this is not about Christianity but it very much is. I am a Christian, but I actually stay out of the scientific arguments because I dont really care. All I care about is the philosophical and theological arguments. For me it is the Rock Of Ages rather than the Age of Rocks! So my advice is this: EvC is not for the timid. Forgive therm for being arrogant and remember that they are challenging you to think.

Edited by Phat, : No reason given.


"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“We must realize that the Reformation world view leads in the direction of government freedom. But the humanist world view with inevitable certainty leads in the direction of statism. This is so because humanists, having no god, must put something at the center, and it is inevitably society, government, or the state.”- Francis A. Schaeffer

“The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
- Criss Jami, Killosophy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 17 by Juvenissun, posted 07-31-2020 10:43 AM Juvenissun has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 20 by Juvenissun, posted 07-31-2020 3:45 PM Phat has not yet responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 14272
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 19 of 22 (880251)
07-31-2020 11:26 AM
Reply to: Message 9 by Tangle
07-30-2020 3:25 AM


Reading The Paper
I am reading the paper. I will comment after reading it fully.

And you, sir best be more respectful to new members. You can knock me around all you want but leave the newbie alone and let him either learn to explain himself or hang himself.


"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“We must realize that the Reformation world view leads in the direction of government freedom. But the humanist world view with inevitable certainty leads in the direction of statism. This is so because humanists, having no god, must put something at the center, and it is inevitably society, government, or the state.”- Francis A. Schaeffer

“The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
- Criss Jami, Killosophy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 9 by Tangle, posted 07-30-2020 3:25 AM Tangle has not yet responded

  
Juvenissun
Member
Posts: 79
Joined: 07-25-2020


Message 20 of 22 (880275)
07-31-2020 3:45 PM
Reply to: Message 18 by Phat
07-31-2020 11:19 AM


Re: Evolution vs YEC and Creationism in general in 2020
The main reason more Geologists don't come here (in my opinion) is because they have other ways to talk shop amongst themselves

I think professional geologists do not like this type of forum because nearly 99% people here do not have a comprehensive geology knowledge at the entrance level. Ironically, professional geologists do not talk to each other on EvC topics either because the topics are very theological at the other hand. It ends up that very few geologist talk about EvC issues anywhereat all. I am hanging out here basically for religious reason. Geology and science are only tools I used in conversation. These people do not accept God. Hopefully, logic and science would more effectively give them a better understanding about the words of God. In fact, I pretty enjoy the moment when they erupted to insult because they are cornered by logic and science. For a few who do ask thoughtful questions, I always do my best to explain.

1) Have you ever heard of Dr.Henry Morris? What do you think of the ICR?
2)Do you know who Ken Ham is and what he teaches? Do you agree or disagree with his conclusions?

Yes, I am quite familiar with ICR and Back to Genesis. I admire their work because they try so hard to fight the cult of evolution. I had a chance to join them in their early stage of development. However, their stiff 6000-year-old-earth doctrine scared me away. This false idea becomes the main hinderance to their science models. Nevertheless, I whole heartily support them.

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
 Message 21 by Minnemooseus, posted 08-01-2020 12:36 AM Juvenissun has responded

  
Minnemooseus
Member
Posts: 3824
From: Duluth, Minnesota, U.S. (West end of Lake Superior)
Joined: 11-11-2001


Message 21 of 22 (880289)
08-01-2020 12:36 AM
Reply to: Message 20 by Juvenissun
07-31-2020 3:45 PM


Re: Evolution vs YEC and Creationism in general in 2020
I think professional geologists do not like this type of forum because nearly 99% people here do not have a comprehensive geology knowledge at the entrance level.

You might, at best, have some acquaintance with things geology, but you seem to be denying such as being "fake information". In the various "flood" related topics (and there are several pretty redundant topics now active) you are proposing a model of the Earth's geology that has little to nothing in common with geological evidence reality.

Ironically, professional geologists do not talk to each other on EvC topics either because the topics are very theological at the other hand.

Geologists don't do "theological science". They do worldly reality science. Theological considerations of "the flood" can happen, but they should not be in a science forum.

It is certainly not easy to be a minority perspective at a forum like this, with the many against the few or the one. I don't post a great deal, but in geological topics I usually leave posting replies to creationists to the others, and then try to at least sometimes correct where those of the science side get things wrong.

Moose (aka Minnemooseus, aka the non-admin version of Adminnemooseus)
Degree - BS in geology


Professor, geology, Whatsamatta U
Evolution - Changes in the environment, caused by the interactions of the components of the environment.

"Do not meddle in the affairs of cats, for they are subtle and will piss on your computer." - Bruce Graham

"The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness." - John Kenneth Galbraith

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It says something about the qualities of our current president that the best argument anyone has made in his defense is that he didn't know what he was talking about. - Paul Krugman (as stolen from Chiroptera's signature)

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"I know a little about a lot of things, and a lot about a few things, but I'm highly ignorant about everything." - Moose


This message is a reply to:
 Message 20 by Juvenissun, posted 07-31-2020 3:45 PM Juvenissun has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 22 by Juvenissun, posted 08-01-2020 7:33 AM Minnemooseus has not yet responded

  
Juvenissun
Member
Posts: 79
Joined: 07-25-2020


Message 22 of 22 (880291)
08-01-2020 7:33 AM
Reply to: Message 21 by Minnemooseus
08-01-2020 12:36 AM


Re: Evolution vs YEC and Creationism in general in 2020
and then try to at least sometimes correct where those of the science side get things wrong.

Highly expect your correction to what I said.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 21 by Minnemooseus, posted 08-01-2020 12:36 AM Minnemooseus has not yet responded

  
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