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Author Topic:   The Case For Miracles
Phat
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Posts: 14719
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 1 of 19 (858070)
07-15-2019 3:38 PM


I just got Lee Strobels newest book free on my Amazon Kindle. I know how the skeptics--especially that smug crew at Internet Infidels--loves to demean and minimise Strobel, but he makes a decent argument and many on the "other side" support his argument. Critics can and will say what they want to be true. William Lane Craig is as smart as any of them and he gives a good review...so im open to hearing the pro and con arguments. As I read the book I will comment here.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.
In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.
~Stile


Replies to this message:
 Message 2 by PaulK, posted 07-15-2019 3:54 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply
 Message 3 by Theodoric, posted 07-15-2019 8:05 PM Phat has responded
 Message 7 by Tangle, posted 07-19-2019 1:12 PM Phat has not yet responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 14719
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 9 of 19 (858430)
07-20-2019 11:30 AM
Reply to: Message 3 by Theodoric
07-15-2019 8:05 PM


Theo writes:

Lee Strobel's books are intended for the weak minded. Each one has been eviscerated by critical reviewers.

Doctrines of demons. that's what the Internet Infidels have--in short. But I will never convince you. You are quick to judge and be critical, and once a Christian makes even one mistake you dismiss everything they have to say----even if they are right. A good example is how you latched on to Ravi Zacharias and dragged him over the coals for one alleged (not even proven) accusation against him. But you have a built in bias against believers to begin with, because if the God we market existed, you would have the audacity to have a word or two with Him as if your measure of morality exceeds His. And jar is an instrument of the enemy by encouraging such behavior, as if humans were always meant to be responsible and outgrow a need for God. Lies, gentlemen. Not word salad. Once it is someday proven that the supernatural is actually real, the entire secular humanist intellectual mindset of this planet will be blown away. And likely what will happen is that satan will enter the unbelievers at that point and cause such an intense hatred of Christianity that more of the story will be verified. These events must happen, evidently.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.
In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.
~Stile


This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by Theodoric, posted 07-15-2019 8:05 PM Theodoric has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 10 by Tangle, posted 07-20-2019 11:50 AM Phat has not yet responded
 Message 11 by ringo, posted 07-20-2019 11:52 AM Phat has acknowledged this reply
 Message 12 by jar, posted 07-20-2019 11:57 AM Phat has responded
 Message 14 by Phat, posted 07-20-2019 3:53 PM Phat has not yet responded
 Message 17 by nwr, posted 07-21-2019 10:46 AM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 14719
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 13 of 19 (858454)
07-20-2019 3:48 PM
Reply to: Message 12 by jar
07-20-2019 11:57 AM


Doing It All Yourself
jar writes:

Phat, why do you constantly object when folk point out what is actually written in the Bible rather than what is marketed from the Snake Oil salesmen call Apologists?

First of all, I dont agree that allapologists are simply snake oil salesman. Second, the evidence shows that nearly everyone who markets the "snake told the truth and God lied" explanation are themselves atheists and/or agnostics...except you. You were mistaught to never park your brain at the door and to mistrust apologetics. In so doing, you incorrectly guessed that there was no way to know that it was God. You endlessly ask how this can be so. It is something that I cannot explain except to say that it is found through faith and not through evidence. You all will likely reject this bit of information.

Could it be that you don't want to be responsible for your behavior and just want the Jesus as a Get Outta Responsibility coin?
Of course I want to be reponsible but unlike you I'm not so proud that I insist on doing everything myself as you were evidently taught to do. God can do some things for us that we ourselves cannot do.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.
In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.
~Stile


This message is a reply to:
 Message 12 by jar, posted 07-20-2019 11:57 AM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 15 by PaulK, posted 07-20-2019 3:59 PM Phat has not yet responded
 Message 16 by jar, posted 07-20-2019 4:01 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 14719
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 14 of 19 (858456)
07-20-2019 3:53 PM
Reply to: Message 9 by Phat
07-20-2019 11:30 AM


Ravi is far from dishonest

I must go to work. I will be back later and comment further in this thread as I actually read the book being discussed.


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.
In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.
~Stile


This message is a reply to:
 Message 9 by Phat, posted 07-20-2019 11:30 AM Phat has not yet responded

  
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