Understanding through Discussion


Welcome! You are not logged in. [ Login ]
EvC Forum active members: 84 (8936 total)
127 online now:
Faith, GDR, Thugpreacha (AdminPhat) (3 members, 124 visitors)
Chatting now:  Chat room empty
Newest Member: martygraham
Post Volume: Total: 861,917 Year: 16,953/19,786 Month: 1,078/2,598 Week: 1/323 Day: 1/51 Hour: 1/4


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   The Hate Thread
ringo
Member
Posts: 17300
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 61 of 67 (861819)
08-27-2019 12:59 PM
Reply to: Message 60 by Faith
08-27-2019 12:53 PM


Faith writes:

What an amazing bunch of non sequiturs.


That's a non sequitur. If you have a rebuttal, post it.

"Come all of you cowboys and don't ever run
As long as there's bullets in both of your guns"
-- Woody Guthrie

This message is a reply to:
 Message 60 by Faith, posted 08-27-2019 12:53 PM Faith has not yet responded

  
JonF
Member
Posts: 5473
Joined: 06-23-2003
Member Rating: 3.0


(1)
Message 62 of 67 (861820)
08-27-2019 1:02 PM
Reply to: Message 55 by Faith
08-27-2019 12:11 PM


Re: Response to Percy from thread
Oh, BTW, Trump's products are made in China.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 55 by Faith, posted 08-27-2019 12:11 PM Faith has not yet responded

  
JonF
Member
Posts: 5473
Joined: 06-23-2003
Member Rating: 3.0


(1)
Message 63 of 67 (861822)
08-27-2019 1:06 PM
Reply to: Message 60 by Faith
08-27-2019 12:53 PM


What an amazing bunch of non sequiturs.

To what are you referring? My message on trickle-down bullshit is directly relevant to and rebuts your claim about job creation.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 60 by Faith, posted 08-27-2019 12:53 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 64 by Faith, posted 08-28-2019 2:32 AM JonF has responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 32954
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 64 of 67 (861847)
08-28-2019 2:32 AM
Reply to: Message 63 by JonF
08-27-2019 1:06 PM


What I said is how things really work, how wealth is created. It's by creative inventive enterprise, and the creation of wealth benefits the entire society. Trickle down isn't something Reagan invented, it's just another word for this process which brings prosperity to all levels of society. You say it fails. It can't fail. It's just one of the terms to describe how capitalism makes wealth for society in general.

I gave only one scenario for how wealth is created and it does involve the creation of jobs. Even if wealth is inherited society is benefited because it doesn't just sit in someone's bank account, it is always being spent which circulates it. If it is used for projects then it does create jobs. I was answering just one claim, that the rich get rich by depriving the poor. That is ridiculous. There are certainly people who got rich by some form of fraud but even that isn't stealing from the poor.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 63 by JonF, posted 08-27-2019 1:06 PM JonF has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 65 by JonF, posted 08-28-2019 7:50 AM Faith has responded

    
JonF
Member
Posts: 5473
Joined: 06-23-2003
Member Rating: 3.0


(3)
Message 65 of 67 (861850)
08-28-2019 7:50 AM
Reply to: Message 64 by Faith
08-28-2019 2:32 AM


Reality demonstrates that's not how things work. Trickle down economics enriches the r rich at the expense of the 99%. The rich spend little of their wealth (most of it sits around generating interest) and are few. The 99% spend less per person, but are much more in number.

Of course you can't, as I did, cite supporting examples. There are none.

Few of the rich steal from the 99%. But the 99% don't get to share in the wealth because wages have risen much much slower than the rich's incomes.,and taxes affect the 99% much more than the rich.

And Republicans are always trying to gut Medicare and Social Security. If Trump gets re-elected he and others have announced those programs are on the chopping block to partially offset the huge drop in government revenue and ballooning of the deficit and the debt caused by their tax cut for billionaires.

Edited by JonF, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 64 by Faith, posted 08-28-2019 2:32 AM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 66 by Faith, posted 08-28-2019 12:49 PM JonF has responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 32954
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 66 of 67 (861871)
08-28-2019 12:49 PM
Reply to: Message 65 by JonF
08-28-2019 7:50 AM


What you need to account for is how we got the wealthiest poor class on the planet, only from fairly primitive unregulated capitalistic practices too. And even now after all kinds of government aid changing the income picture, according to a statistic I heard last night about rates of consumption our poor classes consume more than the majority of people in a long list of countries around the world. I think the source had the word "fact" in it, not Factcheck but I can't remember the whole name.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 65 by JonF, posted 08-28-2019 7:50 AM JonF has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 67 by JonF, posted 08-28-2019 2:03 PM Faith has not yet responded

    
JonF
Member
Posts: 5473
Joined: 06-23-2003
Member Rating: 3.0


(1)
Message 67 of 67 (861877)
08-28-2019 2:03 PM
Reply to: Message 66 by Faith
08-28-2019 12:49 PM


As far as I can tell we don't have the wealthiest poor class. Got a reference for that claim?

As to regulation, you are a heretic. The official right-wing line is that business is being stifled by hordes of regulations and we have to deregulate so business can grow and we can give up clean air, clean water, worker safety, and so on.

But whatever, we didn't get to where we are by throwing money at the rich and hoping that it somehow trickles down. It doesn't, as demonstrated by the examples I gave. If you have an example of trickling actually happening post it.

The trickle down scam is relatively recent, first showing up under Reagan. How do you explain the 1950s boom, when the top tax rate was 90%? Where's the huge jump in job numbers we were promised in 2017?

Note that under Trump we've had just a continuation of Obama's rate of job creation.

Where's the jump in GDP growth? Trump’s doing about as well as Obama, and Obama was working with a sick economy.

Edited by JonF, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 66 by Faith, posted 08-28-2019 12:49 PM Faith has not yet responded

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2018 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.0 Beta
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2019