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Author Topic:   strange experience at confession
Stile
Member
Posts: 4041
From: Ontario, Canada
Joined: 12-02-2004


(2)
Message 5 of 49 (860805)
08-12-2019 9:52 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Trump won
08-10-2019 10:48 PM


a servant of Christ writes:

the priest spoke to my sensibilities and the Christ I believe in and worship.

I think it's something you should investigate, then.

Just remember that because something-works-for-you doesn't mean it works for everyone.

In a general sense - I think the idea of confession (talking about the things you did and feel remorse about) is a very human thing to do.
We are a social species.
Because of this we have a very strong sense of "I did something right" or "I did something wrong."
When we feel we have somethings wrong - we often pursue a sense of atonement - a correction for the thing we did wrong.
Confession is a way to provide this for some people.

There are other ways, too.

Finding one that works great for you is excellent.
I think it's an important aspect of mental health.

evolutionary science negates the human soul, more important than fleshy shells we inhabit.

Uh - no, it doesn't.
It simply doesn't focus on the human soul - because it's attempting to focus on evolutionary science.

But it doesn't "negate it" in any sense.
There are plenty of therapeutic "methods of atonement" that take shape based on information we've become aware of due to evolutionary sciences.
They work together.

They may not work for you - but they certainly work for many.

Just find the one that works best for you, and be happy about it.
No need to make false accusations about other things that help other people in different ways to reach the same state of mental health.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Trump won, posted 08-10-2019 10:48 PM Trump won has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 6 by Phat, posted 08-12-2019 10:28 AM Stile has responded
 Message 11 by Trump won, posted 08-12-2019 8:04 PM Stile has responded

  
Stile
Member
Posts: 4041
From: Ontario, Canada
Joined: 12-02-2004


(2)
Message 8 of 49 (860812)
08-12-2019 10:43 AM
Reply to: Message 6 by Phat
08-12-2019 10:28 AM


Re: A Sidenote To Stile
Thugpreacha writes:

Believers...many of them anyway...believe that the best medicine for the human soul is Holy Communion with God.

This belief, when focused on themselves, can be extremely powerful and beneficial.
I fully support such a belief used in such a way.

This belief, when focused on others, can be extremely powerful - but negative.
I fully denounce such a belief used in such a way.

Since you *know* that God doesn't exist...

Eh - I'd leave this in the other thread where it's context is more easily explained.
I Know That God Does Not Exist
In general, I wouldn't go around saying such a thing. Not that I think it's wrong - but I find it very rude, especially in the presence of believers.

...you can preach this whole "works for some but not everyone" mantra.

Preach?
I don't preach it.
I use it until someone shows to me that it isn't true.
So far - that seems rather impossible. Since, in reality: different strokes for different folks - have you never heard? Do you think it isn't true where religion is concerned?
If you do think it isn't true - the very existence of different religions believed by so many different people disagrees with you.

But to some believers it is as if you are preaching/teaching that the secular spirit has every bit as much right to exist in life (in us) as does the Holy Spirit.

That's exactly what I'm saying.

Which to some is offensive, for it speaks of spiritual dualism rather than Monotheism. But I doubt you understand what I mean. Chris likely does.

I think I understand what you mean - I'm just not sure if you actually understand what you mean.

Don't you think that, maybe, the idea that Monotheism is better than spiritual dualism (or even "non-Monotheism") is offensive to those who don't follow Monotheism?

Why should one group's "feelings of being offended" be taken as higher than another group's?

Why shouldn't we all be focusing on finding a way to live together, in harmony?

Part of the upcoming and ongoing spiritual war on this planet is going to be one side claiming that Jesus is the only way, while the other side essentially says that whatever works for you is cool.

If this happens, then one side will be saying: "Do it our way or it's war!!!!"
And the other side will be saying: "Why can't we all focus on finding a way to live together, in harmony???"

Which side do you find yourself on, again?

If we are wrong that a spiritual war even exists, you have a logical argument. If, on the other hand, we are correct (which you currently have *no* evidence for) You will see the reality intensify.

The war will certainly exist if one side continues to push "Do it our way or it's war!!!!"

Why do you think such a way should be supported over a way of peace?

You likely will someday get your evidence that you seek.

I do not seek war.
I'm on the side of trying to find a way for everyone to live in harmony... not just a select few that believe a select method is best.
I simply won't stand for tyranny - as it only leads to worse wars in the future.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 6 by Phat, posted 08-12-2019 10:28 AM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 9 by Trump won, posted 08-12-2019 7:37 PM Stile has responded
 Message 15 by Phat, posted 08-13-2019 3:48 PM Stile has responded

  
Stile
Member
Posts: 4041
From: Ontario, Canada
Joined: 12-02-2004


(1)
Message 13 of 49 (860904)
08-13-2019 8:46 AM
Reply to: Message 9 by Trump won
08-12-2019 7:37 PM


Re: A Sidenote To Stile
a servant of Christ writes:

What is faith? It is the confident assurance that something we want is going to happen. It is the certainty that what we hope for is waiting for us, even though we cannot see it up ahead.

I agree.

Men of God in days of old were famous for their faith.

Sure.
Although I would not mention this - it's not really something to be proud of.
Faith should be a personal thing - not something to become famous for.

By faith—by believing God—we know that the world and the stars—in fact, all things—were made at God’s command; and that they were all made from things that can’t be seen.

This is just wrong.
We have seen how this world (and others) were made.
We have seen how stars were made.
By all checks - everything would proceed and exist just as it does now regardless of whether God exists or not. God isn't required to command anything.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 9 by Trump won, posted 08-12-2019 7:37 PM Trump won has not yet responded

  
Stile
Member
Posts: 4041
From: Ontario, Canada
Joined: 12-02-2004


(1)
Message 14 of 49 (860905)
08-13-2019 8:51 AM
Reply to: Message 11 by Trump won
08-12-2019 8:04 PM


a servant of Christ writes:

evolutionary science can only guess at how, never the whys of existence

Of course evolutionary science looks at the whys of existence.

Why are babies born?
Because parents had sex.

Why do parents have sex?
Because they evolved to do so and it allowed them to avoid extinction.

Other "whys" are better explained without evolutionary science or religion, for me.
Religion has never explained a why in it's history. It's provided guesses - but they have generally been overturned as we get more information or otherwise shown themselves to be ineffective.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 11 by Trump won, posted 08-12-2019 8:04 PM Trump won has not yet responded

  
Stile
Member
Posts: 4041
From: Ontario, Canada
Joined: 12-02-2004


(1)
Message 16 of 49 (860943)
08-14-2019 9:28 AM
Reply to: Message 15 by Phat
08-13-2019 3:48 PM


Re: A Sidenote To Stile
Thugpreacha writes:

This makes me think that if you ever found God, you would accept Him only if He worked for you.

That's right.
If God wanted to do terrible things to good people - that doesn't work for me and I would not accept Him.

Are you saying that would actually work for you?
You would do terrible things to good people just because a God told you too?

That makes me worry for your soul.

The whole idea of you working for Him seems tyrannical in many minds.

Only if He wants to do terrible things to good people.
Who wouldn't agree with that?

I guess what I see as a point of contention is your argument regarding equality of "spirits".

If the Holy Spirit requires submitting to do terrible things to good people - then I whole-heartedly contend that the secular-human-Spirit is waaaaaaay above the Holy Spirit.

One side touts an absolute while the other side advocates "whatever work" or whatever it takes to achieve peace.

I don't advocate "whatever works" or whatever it takes to achieve peace.
I advocate all people living together in harmony.

If anyone's on the side of doing terrible things to good people - I'm against them.
Otherwise, I'm sure we can figure a way to live together.

Under normal circumstances your argument makes sense.

That's a good start

We believe that we are in a spiritual war because many societal values are changing, in our opinion, for the worse.

Can you name one? We may agree more than you think.
Of course - if you think "gays shouldn't get married."
Then you're doing terrible things to good people - and I think you have some soul searching to do. Perhaps you should pray on it.

Critics will ask us why we are being authoritarian, judgemental, and warlike. We may well argue that satan is a clever pied piper that is leading the majority down a destructive path which seems good but is not.

Sounds like you have good intentions.
The road to hell is paved with good intentions - is it not?

I don't care about what you intend.
I care about what you do.

And, if you do terrible things to good people, regardless of your intentions - then my Spirit is obviously much better than yours.
If not - then we have equal Spirits.

Equal Spirits are a good thing.

The dogma that we have been taught suggests that satan is an angel of light and will attempt to seduce the world through ideologies that seem liberal and progressive but are in reality poisoning humanity.

I think it's good (and required) to be vigilant.
Just make sure you're not the one being poisoned.

Many feel that the last days will see the rise of antichrist and that the Body of Christ---the church---will itself be persecuted for taking a hardline stand and not changing with the culture.

Again - if "the culture changes" include doing less terrible things to good people - I'm all for them.
If you're against such things - we will have issues.
If you're all-for such things as well - then we'll get along just fine.

We will not compromise simply to achieve peace, because we are afraid that the wrong spirit will be in charge.

Sounds like a huge, open wound just waiting to be poisoned.
I suggest you pray on it and try to be vigilant on watching for terrible things happening to good people.

There is, after all, a possibility I may be wrong. I only wish that my opponents would acknowledge that obedience to a Messiah may be the right path.

As long as it includes not doing terrible things to good people - I'll be the first to submit!!

Unless one believes that personified evil does not exist any more than God does

I don't really care if "personified" evil exists or not.
I just care if "regular evil" exists - which it does.

Sometimes people do terrible things to good people.
I think this should be fought against wherever and whenever.

If you agree - then we have equal Spirits.
If you disagree - then I'll be watching you very carefully.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 15 by Phat, posted 08-13-2019 3:48 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
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