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Author Topic:   Jesus - Wholly Man - Wholly God
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 7051
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005


Message 5 of 105 (861985)
08-30-2019 9:35 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by GDR
08-29-2019 4:39 PM


we ignore the fact that Jesus was a flesh and blood human being

Alas, this "fact" isn't based upon any historical evidence. The only support for this is the bible itself, of we have no idea who wrote or when.
So no verifiable evidence for this "fact" at all.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by GDR, posted 08-29-2019 4:39 PM GDR has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 8 by GDR, posted 08-30-2019 11:34 AM Theodoric has not yet responded

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 7051
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005


Message 16 of 105 (862015)
08-30-2019 4:01 PM
Reply to: Message 14 by GDR
08-30-2019 3:36 PM


Re: It's the historical term for it
I have read Josephus who was actually there

Josephus does not speak at all about 1st century christianity. Any mention about a jesus character is disputable at best. Even if the lines are not interpolations, they are not evidence of the historical existence of the jesus character.
NT Wright is not a historian. He is a theologian.
Patient Ferment is not history, it is apologetics and propaganda. It is published by a christian propaganda publisher.


Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 14 by GDR, posted 08-30-2019 3:36 PM GDR has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 19 by Phat, posted 08-30-2019 4:06 PM Theodoric has responded
 Message 26 by GDR, posted 08-30-2019 4:33 PM Theodoric has responded

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 7051
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005


Message 20 of 105 (862019)
08-30-2019 4:07 PM
Reply to: Message 17 by Phat
08-30-2019 4:03 PM


Re: It's the historical term for it
He is not a trained historian as he has been presented. He is practicing apologetics, not presenting history.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 17 by Phat, posted 08-30-2019 4:03 PM Phat has not yet responded

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 7051
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005


Message 21 of 105 (862020)
08-30-2019 4:14 PM
Reply to: Message 19 by Phat
08-30-2019 4:06 PM


Re: It's the historical term for it
Even if Jesus was but a myth, the impact of the fictional character would still challenge modern secularist thinking.

As he is a myth, I do not see any threat. What do you even mean? You do realize secularists(whatever they are) are not a monolithic block and do not practice groupthink.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 19 by Phat, posted 08-30-2019 4:06 PM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 23 by Phat, posted 08-30-2019 4:25 PM Theodoric has not yet responded

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 7051
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005


Message 24 of 105 (862024)
08-30-2019 4:30 PM
Reply to: Message 22 by GDR
08-30-2019 4:16 PM


Re: It's the historical term for it
Chair of New Testament and early Christianity at the University of St. Andrews is not a History position. It is a position in the School of Divinity. No bias there.

https://news.st-andrews.ac.uk/...wright-to-chair-in-divinity


Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 22 by GDR, posted 08-30-2019 4:16 PM GDR has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 25 by Phat, posted 08-30-2019 4:32 PM Theodoric has not yet responded
 Message 29 by GDR, posted 08-30-2019 4:54 PM Theodoric has not yet responded

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 7051
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005


Message 27 of 105 (862032)
08-30-2019 4:40 PM
Reply to: Message 26 by GDR
08-30-2019 4:33 PM


Re: It's the historical term for it
I have a BA in History. I am not a historian.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 26 by GDR, posted 08-30-2019 4:33 PM GDR has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 31 by GDR, posted 08-30-2019 5:00 PM Theodoric has responded

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 7051
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005


Message 33 of 105 (862039)
08-30-2019 5:20 PM
Reply to: Message 31 by GDR
08-30-2019 5:00 PM


Re: It's the historical term for it
Now you know that is not true. I critiqued your assumption that the jesus character was flesh and blood. Then I criticized what you claim are the sources of your knowledge. You are the one that is putting N.T. Wright up as an expert on history
You are the one putting a Christian propaganda book up as unbiased history. You and your sources are biased. You and your sources are classic apologists,
Have a conclusion and find any semblance of data to support that conclusion.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 31 by GDR, posted 08-30-2019 5:00 PM GDR has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 37 by GDR, posted 08-30-2019 6:09 PM Theodoric has responded

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 7051
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005


Message 43 of 105 (862053)
08-30-2019 7:32 PM
Reply to: Message 37 by GDR
08-30-2019 6:09 PM


Re: It's the historical term for it
Never said I did not have any biases. It is very dishonest of you to imply that I feel that way. I have lots of biases. The difference is I am open and honest about them. I am merely pointing out the problems with your sources. They are biased and not historians as you presented them.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 37 by GDR, posted 08-30-2019 6:09 PM GDR has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 45 by GDR, posted 08-30-2019 7:48 PM Theodoric has responded

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 7051
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005


Message 46 of 105 (862057)
08-30-2019 8:50 PM
Reply to: Message 45 by GDR
08-30-2019 7:48 PM


Re: It's the historical term for it
The problem is you presented N.T.Wright and as a historian. He is not. Now if you presented him as Christian apologists as he is then I would have no.problem.

Edited by Theodoric, : Are is


Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 45 by GDR, posted 08-30-2019 7:48 PM GDR has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 47 by GDR, posted 08-30-2019 10:07 PM Theodoric has responded

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 7051
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005


Message 49 of 105 (862063)
08-30-2019 11:36 PM
Reply to: Message 47 by GDR
08-30-2019 10:07 PM


Re: It's the historical term for it
Much better.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 47 by GDR, posted 08-30-2019 10:07 PM GDR has not yet responded

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 7051
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005


Message 51 of 105 (862072)
08-31-2019 10:11 AM
Reply to: Message 47 by GDR
08-30-2019 10:07 PM


Re: It's the historical term for it
But you should also point out that he is not a historian as you claimed.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 47 by GDR, posted 08-30-2019 10:07 PM GDR has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 52 by GDR, posted 08-31-2019 10:57 AM Theodoric has responded

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 7051
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005


Message 56 of 105 (862084)
08-31-2019 1:49 PM
Reply to: Message 52 by GDR
08-31-2019 10:57 AM


Re: It's the historical term for it
Ok now provide us with who considers him an authority. Has he published in historical journals? Has he been employed as a historian? I do not see any position he has as a historian. They have all been theological and apologetics. Apologetics and theology are not history. They use history but in a biased way to arrive at a preordained outcome.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 52 by GDR, posted 08-31-2019 10:57 AM GDR has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 59 by GDR, posted 08-31-2019 5:00 PM Theodoric has responded

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 7051
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005


Message 60 of 105 (862093)
08-31-2019 5:26 PM
Reply to: Message 59 by GDR
08-31-2019 5:00 PM


Re: It's the historical term for it
What ancient languages can he read?

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 59 by GDR, posted 08-31-2019 5:00 PM GDR has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 62 by GDR, posted 08-31-2019 5:50 PM Theodoric has responded

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 7051
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005


Message 65 of 105 (862100)
08-31-2019 7:30 PM
Reply to: Message 62 by GDR
08-31-2019 5:50 PM


Re: It's the historical term for it
So nothing to show he can read the original sources. It takes more than a B.A. to be able to critically analyze texts in the original Greek and Aramaic. I am not saying he cannot.
I am just saying you have not provided evidence to support your assertions.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 62 by GDR, posted 08-31-2019 5:50 PM GDR has not yet responded

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 7051
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005


Message 72 of 105 (862111)
08-31-2019 11:17 PM
Reply to: Message 70 by Faith
08-31-2019 10:39 PM


Re: Jesus' Earthly Limitations
Masturbation is not misuse. It is use.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 70 by Faith, posted 08-31-2019 10:39 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 74 by Faith, posted 08-31-2019 11:20 PM Theodoric has not yet responded

  
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