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Author Topic:   Stories about prayer
ringo
Member
Posts: 17300
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.5


(1)
Message 46 of 80 (862609)
09-07-2019 2:06 PM
Reply to: Message 43 by Thugpreacha
09-07-2019 1:55 PM


Re: Thread is for reporting answered prayers
Phat writes:

God is an accomplice in every human decision ever made.


If He isn't doing anything to stop the bad stuff, how do we know He's contributing anything to the good stuff?

“Maturity, one discovers, has everything to do with the acceptance of ‘not knowing.”
-- Mark Z. Danielewski, House of Leaves

This message is a reply to:
 Message 43 by Thugpreacha, posted 09-07-2019 1:55 PM Thugpreacha has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 47 by Thugpreacha, posted 09-07-2019 3:00 PM ringo has responded

  
Thugpreacha
Member
Posts: 12813
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 47 of 80 (862610)
09-07-2019 3:00 PM
Reply to: Message 46 by ringo
09-07-2019 2:06 PM


Re: Thread is for reporting answered prayers
ringo writes:

If He isn't doing anything to stop the bad stuff, how do we know He's contributing anything to the good stuff?

Many of our prayers are for others and ourselves to have the heart and wisdom to do just that. And I know what you will say....something along the lines of "stop praying and just get out and DO it!" But the Lord helps change our heart.(grow it stronger) He helps me to let go of my extra dollar for the stinky guy on the corner. Even if the guy stole from my store yesterday.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.
In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.
~Stile


This message is a reply to:
 Message 46 by ringo, posted 09-07-2019 2:06 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 49 by ringo, posted 09-08-2019 2:11 PM Thugpreacha has responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 32954
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


(1)
Message 48 of 80 (862611)
09-07-2019 3:55 PM
Reply to: Message 37 by ringo
09-07-2019 1:09 PM


Re: Thread is for reporting answered prayers
It's not at all like gambling because I'm not at all thinking about percentages and rates, how many prayers answered as opposed to how many not, how many miracles as opposed to how many not. If there's an incidence of one person being helped by an angel I just think that's interesting, I don't see any necessity to compare it to all the others who didn't encounter angels. If it snows on a day in July, why am I obliged to mention all the times it didn't?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 37 by ringo, posted 09-07-2019 1:09 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 50 by ringo, posted 09-08-2019 2:18 PM Faith has responded

    
ringo
Member
Posts: 17300
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 49 of 80 (862631)
09-08-2019 2:11 PM
Reply to: Message 47 by Thugpreacha
09-07-2019 3:00 PM


Re: Thread is for reporting answered prayers
If you "need" a mythical god-creature to motivate you to be good, how is that different from needing a mythical god-creature to stop you from being a murderer?

“Maturity, one discovers, has everything to do with the acceptance of ‘not knowing.”
-- Mark Z. Danielewski, House of Leaves

This message is a reply to:
 Message 47 by Thugpreacha, posted 09-07-2019 3:00 PM Thugpreacha has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 54 by Thugpreacha, posted 09-08-2019 4:45 PM ringo has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 17300
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.5


(1)
Message 50 of 80 (862632)
09-08-2019 2:18 PM
Reply to: Message 48 by Faith
09-07-2019 3:55 PM


Re: Thread is for reporting answered prayers
Faith writes:

It's not at all like gambling because I'm not at all thinking about percentages and rates, how many prayers answered as opposed to how many not, how many miracles as opposed to how many not.


That's the point; you should be.

Faith writes:

If there's an incidence of one person being helped by an angel I just think that's interesting, I don't see any necessity to compare it to all the others who didn't encounter angels.


If only one prayer in a thousand is "answered" you should be wondering whether it really is an answer or just a coincidence.

Faith writes:

If it snows on a day in July, why am I obliged to mention all the times it didn't?


You're not "obliged" to notice it at all. But if you're going to ascribe incidents to miracles and/or answered prayer, you should put some thought into whether they really are miracles and/or answered prayers.

“Maturity, one discovers, has everything to do with the acceptance of ‘not knowing.”
-- Mark Z. Danielewski, House of Leaves

This message is a reply to:
 Message 48 by Faith, posted 09-07-2019 3:55 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 51 by Faith, posted 09-08-2019 3:10 PM ringo has responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 32954
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


(1)
Message 51 of 80 (862636)
09-08-2019 3:10 PM
Reply to: Message 50 by ringo
09-08-2019 2:18 PM


Re: Thread is for reporting answered prayers
The circumstances themselves tell me whether the prayer was answered and whether that really was an angel. I don't need statistics to tell me that.

Besides, God answers prayer through many ordinary means, and believers recognize as His answers what unbelievers would dismiss as coincidence or at least nothing out of the ordinary. There is no point in discussing this subject on that level since we have assumptions at such complete odds to each other you will be talking to those who already share your views and the same is true on the side of believers.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 50 by ringo, posted 09-08-2019 2:18 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 52 by ringo, posted 09-08-2019 3:25 PM Faith has not yet responded

    
ringo
Member
Posts: 17300
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 52 of 80 (862637)
09-08-2019 3:25 PM
Reply to: Message 51 by Faith
09-08-2019 3:10 PM


Re: Thread is for reporting answered prayers
Faith writes:

God answers prayer through many ordinary means


So do I.

Faith writes:

believers recognize as His answers what unbelievers would dismiss as coincidence or at least nothing out of the ordinary.


The same goes for believers in Allah or Ganesh.

“Maturity, one discovers, has everything to do with the acceptance of ‘not knowing.”
-- Mark Z. Danielewski, House of Leaves

This message is a reply to:
 Message 51 by Faith, posted 09-08-2019 3:10 PM Faith has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 53 by Thugpreacha, posted 09-08-2019 4:40 PM ringo has responded

  
Thugpreacha
Member
Posts: 12813
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 53 of 80 (862638)
09-08-2019 4:40 PM
Reply to: Message 52 by ringo
09-08-2019 3:25 PM


Re: Thread is for reporting answered prayers
The point we are trying to make regarding our belief is that there is One God and that yes, we just happen to have been found by Him. Which supports the idea that He chooses the reproachable things to shame the wise (in their own eyes). Faith and I hardly represent the strongest or "best" Christians, but we do understand what we have been taught about scripture. You, predictably, along with jar use scripture to refute what the mainstream church and apologetics have taught and come up with an entirely different way of defining scripture. Which I disagree with but which makes for some interesting conversations.

You *do* have a point in that the best critics of Christianity(modern dogma) are best represented by atheists/agnostics/secular humanists who claim membership in the club yet continually question and redefine its by-laws.

I suppose that we are forever stuck debating you. And I suppose that you will always throw up evidence as the only valid standard with which to score points in such a debate.

My only evidence is my character. It varies day by day but hopefully is getting more stable.


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.
In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.
~Stile


This message is a reply to:
 Message 52 by ringo, posted 09-08-2019 3:25 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 55 by ringo, posted 09-09-2019 11:40 AM Thugpreacha has not yet responded

  
Thugpreacha
Member
Posts: 12813
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 54 of 80 (862639)
09-08-2019 4:45 PM
Reply to: Message 49 by ringo
09-08-2019 2:11 PM


Re: Thread is for reporting answered prayers
If you "need" a mythical god-creature to motivate you to be good, how is that different from needing a mythical god-creature to stop you from being a murderer?
I think that under the most pressing circumstances, any human is capable of murder..yet most of us have a strong enough sense of right and wrong to suppress the urge. Heck, I've gotten mad enough at idiots in traffic to nearly ramming them yet I've never initiated such acts of road rage...though the thoughts briefly occur. Whether I need God to keep me sane or not, I believe that I need Him. Critics will say that we believers would be reprobates without Him...whereas *they* would still do the right thing....but how would we ever know whether or not Gods presence in the world keeps everybody from being reprobates...even non-believers?

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.
In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.
~Stile


This message is a reply to:
 Message 49 by ringo, posted 09-08-2019 2:11 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 56 by ringo, posted 09-09-2019 11:46 AM Thugpreacha has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 17300
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 55 of 80 (862652)
09-09-2019 11:40 AM
Reply to: Message 53 by Thugpreacha
09-08-2019 4:40 PM


Re: Thread is for reporting answered prayers
Phat writes:

The point we are trying to make regarding our belief is that there is One God and that yes, we just happen to have been found by Him.


That's not a "point you are making". It's just a belief you are preaching. It's like saying you like ice cream.

Phat writes:

You, predictably, along with jar use scripture to refute what the mainstream church and apologetics have taught and come up with an entirely different way of defining scripture.


Not at all. I point out what the scripture says. Your churches and apologists have been teaching you wrong.

“Maturity, one discovers, has everything to do with the acceptance of ‘not knowing.”
-- Mark Z. Danielewski, House of Leaves

This message is a reply to:
 Message 53 by Thugpreacha, posted 09-08-2019 4:40 PM Thugpreacha has not yet responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 17300
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.5


(5)
Message 56 of 80 (862653)
09-09-2019 11:46 AM
Reply to: Message 54 by Thugpreacha
09-08-2019 4:45 PM


Re: Thread is for reporting answered prayers
Phat writes:

Critics will say that we believers would be reprobates without Him...


No, it's believers who say that. We unbelievers actually have a higher opinion of you believers than you have of yourselves.

“Maturity, one discovers, has everything to do with the acceptance of ‘not knowing.”
-- Mark Z. Danielewski, House of Leaves

This message is a reply to:
 Message 54 by Thugpreacha, posted 09-08-2019 4:45 PM Thugpreacha has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 59 by Thugpreacha, posted 09-09-2019 3:15 PM ringo has responded
 Message 68 by Thugpreacha, posted 09-10-2019 12:09 PM ringo has responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 31288
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.0


Message 57 of 80 (862660)
09-09-2019 2:38 PM


yet more examples of mistaking claims for evidence.
Well, I read through the thread and so far absolutely no evidence of any answered prayers has been presented. There have been, as usual, the totally unsupported assertion that some prayer were answered yet zero evidence to support those assertions.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

Replies to this message:
 Message 58 by Faith, posted 09-09-2019 2:46 PM jar has responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 32954
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 58 of 80 (862661)
09-09-2019 2:46 PM
Reply to: Message 57 by jar
09-09-2019 2:38 PM


Re: yet more examples of mistaking claims for evidence.
That's OK, God isn't interested in convincing people who don't recognize the evidence He's already given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 57 by jar, posted 09-09-2019 2:38 PM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 60 by jar, posted 09-09-2019 4:00 PM Faith has not yet responded

    
Thugpreacha
Member
Posts: 12813
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 59 of 80 (862663)
09-09-2019 3:15 PM
Reply to: Message 56 by ringo
09-09-2019 11:46 AM


Re: Thread is for reporting answered prayers
In this case, the critics I was referring to were other believers.

And there is no collective *we*. Everyone has different ideas as to what's real. You are starting to sound like Stile.

Edited by Thugpreacha, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 56 by ringo, posted 09-09-2019 11:46 AM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 67 by ringo, posted 09-10-2019 12:01 PM Thugpreacha has acknowledged this reply

  
jar
Member
Posts: 31288
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.0


Message 60 of 80 (862665)
09-09-2019 4:00 PM
Reply to: Message 58 by Faith
09-09-2019 2:46 PM


Re: yet more examples of mistaking claims for evidence.
But so far there has been no evidence given Faith.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 58 by Faith, posted 09-09-2019 2:46 PM Faith has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 61 by Tanypteryx, posted 09-09-2019 5:54 PM jar has not yet responded

  
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