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Author Topic:   Jesus Among Secular Gods
ringo
Member
Posts: 17902
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 2 of 94 (862949)
09-17-2019 1:21 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Phat
09-17-2019 1:11 PM


Phat writes:

...the new Atheism routinely ridicules the ideas of modern believers.


It's funny how believers think it's fine to ridicule other beliefs - e.g. Mormonism, the Easter Bunny - but not their own.

Phat writes:

ringo asks again and again what these guys think of genesis 3 (that being the acid test of their sincerity)....


It isn't the acid test. It's just the first test. It's like spelling your own name correctly at the top of the exam paper.

And you never answer the question. Where's your confidence in their honesty?


“Maturity, one discovers, has everything to do with the acceptance of ‘not knowing.”
-- Mark Z. Danielewski, House of Leaves

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Phat, posted 09-17-2019 1:11 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 17902
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 5 of 94 (863339)
09-24-2019 10:19 PM
Reply to: Message 4 by Phat
09-24-2019 6:43 PM


Re: Barker on the Matter of Honesty
Phat writes:

I would imagine that he is on the lookout for someone--anyone--who can read the scripture plainly and without adding to or interpreting it arrive at the same conclusion which he and jar see as obvious.


No. I couldn't care less whether anybody agrees or not. It says what it says.

Phat writes:

I see no reason to conclude that either side is being dishonest....


Because you refuse to discuss their arguments.

“Maturity, one discovers, has everything to do with the acceptance of ‘not knowing.”
-- Mark Z. Danielewski, House of Leaves

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4 by Phat, posted 09-24-2019 6:43 PM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 7 by Phat, posted 09-25-2019 12:07 AM ringo has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 17902
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.5


(1)
Message 11 of 94 (863393)
09-25-2019 3:07 PM
Reply to: Message 7 by Phat
09-25-2019 12:07 AM


Re: Barker on the Matter of Honesty
Phat writes:

You claim that there is no *evidence* that God is doing anything or involved in any way. We believe that He is.


Believing the evidence away is not kosher.

“Maturity, one discovers, has everything to do with the acceptance of ‘not knowing.”
-- Mark Z. Danielewski, House of Leaves

This message is a reply to:
 Message 7 by Phat, posted 09-25-2019 12:07 AM Phat has acknowledged this reply

Replies to this message:
 Message 18 by ICANT, posted 09-25-2019 10:52 PM ringo has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 17902
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 27 of 94 (863477)
09-26-2019 11:36 AM
Reply to: Message 18 by ICANT
09-25-2019 10:52 PM


Re: Barker on the Matter of Honesty
ICANT writes:

What is the difference in that and believing there is evidence where there is none, only assumptions.


Assumptions are based on evidence.

“Maturity, one discovers, has everything to do with the acceptance of ‘not knowing.”
-- Mark Z. Danielewski, House of Leaves

This message is a reply to:
 Message 18 by ICANT, posted 09-25-2019 10:52 PM ICANT has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 34 by ICANT, posted 09-27-2019 2:51 AM ringo has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 17902
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 41 of 94 (863585)
09-27-2019 12:55 PM
Reply to: Message 34 by ICANT
09-27-2019 2:51 AM


Re: Barker on the Matter of Honesty
ICANT writes:

What evidence is the assumption that the universe existed one trillionth of a second before the Big Bang Theory begins its story of how the universe began expanding.


My point was that "assumptions" are not the wild guesses that people like you think they are. Every assumption used in science is tested by science.

“Maturity, one discovers, has everything to do with the acceptance of ‘not knowing.”
-- Mark Z. Danielewski, House of Leaves

This message is a reply to:
 Message 34 by ICANT, posted 09-27-2019 2:51 AM ICANT has not yet responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 17902
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 46 of 94 (863602)
09-27-2019 5:32 PM
Reply to: Message 43 by Phat
09-27-2019 3:41 PM


Re: what jar has said.
Phat writes:

Besides, scripture suggests that though all are called, few choose.


Do you know where that reference is from? Read Matthew 22:1-14. It's a parable about a *ahem* despotic king who slaughters the people who don't accept an invitation to his son's wedding; and it isn't about them choosing. It's about him choosing them.

Phat writes:

Many will go about bleating "Lord, Lord" after the fact...when the sky is falling...but they will seek Him due to fear and not due to a desire to know Him.


You should know where that reference is from by now - the dreaded Matthew 25. It's about the people who do desire to know Him, and claim they do know Him, but they don't.

“Maturity, one discovers, has everything to do with the acceptance of ‘not knowing.”
-- Mark Z. Danielewski, House of Leaves

This message is a reply to:
 Message 43 by Phat, posted 09-27-2019 3:41 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 17902
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 87 of 94 (864061)
10-06-2019 2:08 PM
Reply to: Message 84 by Phat
10-05-2019 3:06 PM


Re: No True Apologists Fallacy
Phat writes:

I cant see a whole religion lying to itself.


It's very simple. Bring the apologetics here and we'll see whether they are lying or not.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 84 by Phat, posted 10-05-2019 3:06 PM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 89 by Phat, posted 10-06-2019 3:08 PM ringo has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 17902
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 90 of 94 (864075)
10-06-2019 3:32 PM
Reply to: Message 89 by Phat
10-06-2019 3:08 PM


Re: No True Apologists Fallacy
Phat writes:

You cant find a lie in any of this.


Don't underestimate me.

Ravi Zacharias writes:

King Solomon, who knew enough about the law though he flaunted it....


The word he is looking for is "flouted" - but that's illiteracy, not a lie.

Ravi Zacharias writes:

The very word law evokes rebellion within our hearts.


That may not be a lie either but it's nonsense.

Ravi Zacharias writes:

In other words, loving God and the resulting love for humanity are not only inextricably bound, but apart from that all else of morality has no other ground on which to stand.


Also nonsense.

But what has any of that got to do with what I said?

quote:
Bring the apologetics here and we'll see whether they are lying or not.

You quoted Zacharias spouting a lot of rubbish in criticism of secular humanism. What about the actual apologetics in defense of actual doctrines?

What about God lying in Genesis 3? What about "the Fall"?

Never mind bragging that there are no out-and-out lies in one brief quote. Bring on the actual apologetics.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 89 by Phat, posted 10-06-2019 3:08 PM Phat has not yet responded

  
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