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Author Topic:   Testing The Christian Apologists
ringo
Member
Posts: 18985
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 3.1


Message 10 of 853 (865059)
10-20-2019 2:48 PM
Reply to: Message 5 by Phat
10-20-2019 1:24 PM


Re: Testing Whom? Testing What?
Phat writes:

ringo wanted me to present 1 honest apologist to him, as he claims that they are all liars.


What I've been trying to get you to do is to defend specific lies that apologists tell, like claiming God told the truth in Genesis 3.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 5 by Phat, posted 10-20-2019 1:24 PM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 11 by Phat, posted 10-20-2019 3:13 PM ringo has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 18985
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 3.1


(1)
Message 12 of 853 (865070)
10-20-2019 3:26 PM
Reply to: Message 11 by Phat
10-20-2019 3:13 PM


Re: Testing Whom? Testing What?
Phat writes:

I know that you stick to your guns about a plain reading, but there are ways to dance around a bit. The question is are they honest ways or not.


The nonsense about "which tree" is clearly dishonest. There is no confusion in the story about which tree God was talking about. He said that Adam and Eve had become like Him, "to know good and evil."

The bit about being, "condemned to death," is also dishonest. God said they would die on the same day, not be sentenced on the same day.

Phat writes:

I happen to agree with those two assumptions. Is there any reason to question them?


All assumptions should be questioned.

Edited by ringo, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 11 by Phat, posted 10-20-2019 3:13 PM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 15 by Phat, posted 10-20-2019 3:48 PM ringo has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 18985
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 3.1


Message 17 of 853 (865079)
10-20-2019 3:56 PM
Reply to: Message 15 by Phat
10-20-2019 3:48 PM


Re: Testing Whom? Testing What?
Phat writes:

Basically the snake's message is to go with your own intuition. Did Jesus do that in the wilderness? NO. He questioned what was whispered to Him. (by using scripture)So should we.


Well, Adam and Eve didn't have any scripture to go by, so I don't know what your whole non-sequitur is supposed to represent.

Of course the evidence shows that their intuition was right. They didn't die.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 15 by Phat, posted 10-20-2019 3:48 PM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 18 by Phat, posted 10-20-2019 4:00 PM ringo has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 18985
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 3.1


Message 21 of 853 (865085)
10-20-2019 4:09 PM
Reply to: Message 18 by Phat
10-20-2019 4:00 PM


Re: Testing Whom? Testing What?
Phat writes:

No, but they got kicked out of the house and had to work.


So what? They didn't die. The snake was right and God was wrong (or changed His mind or whatever). The point here is that the snake was right and no amount of apologetic squirming can change that.

Phat writes:

If a convict gets sentenced to death on one day and finally dies several years later by the sentence being carried out, he still legally died the day he was sentenced. Right?


Wrong. Obviously. Have you never heard of appeals, pardons, etc.? He doesn't die until he dies.

Phat writes:

God likely knew it would happen.


Making up "likely" stories is still making up stories and writing your own Bible instead of reading it.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 18 by Phat, posted 10-20-2019 4:00 PM Phat has not yet responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 18985
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 3.1


Message 26 of 853 (865091)
10-20-2019 4:49 PM
Reply to: Message 24 by Phat
10-20-2019 4:36 PM


Re: Testing Whom? Testing What?
Phat writes:

Besides, ringo doesn't believe that a supernatural messenger wrote (or inspired) the words. Therefore, who cares what human authors may or may not have intended? The book would only become as important as a room full of other books.


Get down off your high horse. The book says what it says whether it was written in God's own handwriting or by a bunch of goat herders. If it was inspired by God, why do you have so little regard for the words He chose? Why would He need apologists to explain to you what it really, really, really means? Why do you portray Him as incapable of communicating for Himself?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 24 by Phat, posted 10-20-2019 4:36 PM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 28 by Phat, posted 10-20-2019 4:52 PM ringo has responded
 Message 512 by Phat, posted 12-15-2019 7:08 AM ringo has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 18985
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 3.1


(1)
Message 30 of 853 (865098)
10-20-2019 5:03 PM
Reply to: Message 28 by Phat
10-20-2019 4:52 PM


Re: Testing Whom? Testing What?
Phat writes:

I have issues with others who tell me what I don't want to hear regarding what He says in the book.


Do you hear yourself? You don't want the book to say what you don't want to hear - so you only listen to what you want to hear. That would be following the broad path instead of the straight and narrow.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 28 by Phat, posted 10-20-2019 4:52 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 18985
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 3.1


Message 36 of 853 (865567)
10-27-2019 2:23 PM
Reply to: Message 35 by Phat
10-27-2019 12:52 PM


Re: Testing Whom? Testing What?
Phat writes:

... God exists, is knowable through the character and life of Jesus Christ....


The "life of Jesus" exists only in the Bible - and you reject much of what He said in the Bible.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 35 by Phat, posted 10-27-2019 12:52 PM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 37 by Phat, posted 10-27-2019 3:13 PM ringo has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 18985
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 3.1


(1)
Message 38 of 853 (865570)
10-27-2019 3:35 PM
Reply to: Message 37 by Phat
10-27-2019 3:13 PM


Re: Testing Whom? Testing What?
Phat writes:

You continually accuse me of this, yet have no proof.


I certainly do have proof. You reject what Jesus said about selling everything you have and giving to the poor. You claim that it isn't meant for everybody but you never back that up.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 37 by Phat, posted 10-27-2019 3:13 PM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 39 by Phat, posted 10-27-2019 4:27 PM ringo has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 18985
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 3.1


(1)
Message 40 of 853 (865575)
10-27-2019 4:38 PM
Reply to: Message 39 by Phat
10-27-2019 4:27 PM


Re: Turek and the Atheists
Phat writes:

And yes, Im trying to put what I learn into my own words...but it takes time to get the essence of his argument.


Isn't it odd that you can decide that the arguments are honest and make sense but you can't articulate what the arguments are?

Phat writes:

I am not trying so much to find the proper questions to ask Atheists, but I do want the apologist to be tested by them and see if he is debating in good faith.


I'm not interested in how apologists attack atheists either. I'm interested in how they justify their own twisting of the Bible.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 39 by Phat, posted 10-27-2019 4:27 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 18985
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 3.1


Message 78 of 853 (865780)
10-30-2019 3:21 PM
Reply to: Message 57 by Phat
10-29-2019 3:32 PM


Re: Mark Mittelberg
Phat writes:

Turek has some valid arguments.


Bring them here.

Phat writes:

... he challenges by asking them to give their explanation (as far as they believe) as to how the universe came about.


Yawn.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 57 by Phat, posted 10-29-2019 3:32 PM Phat has not yet responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 18985
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 3.1


Message 79 of 853 (865781)
10-30-2019 3:29 PM
Reply to: Message 75 by Phat
10-30-2019 12:48 PM


Re: Turek & Hitch
Phat writes:

Turek learned much of his world view from the late Dr.Norman Geisler.


I'd be more impressed if he learned something from the Bible.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 75 by Phat, posted 10-30-2019 12:48 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 18985
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 3.1


(1)
Message 82 of 853 (865792)
10-30-2019 4:57 PM
Reply to: Message 81 by Phat
10-30-2019 4:50 PM


Re: Becoming My Own Apologist
Phat writes:

Bare with me as I attempt my own apologetic:


You seem to be talking about philosophy more than apologetics. I'd like to see you defend the apologetics on specific doctrines, not just this, "Does God exist?" or, "Do we need God?" rubbish.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 81 by Phat, posted 10-30-2019 4:50 PM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 83 by Phat, posted 10-30-2019 8:11 PM ringo has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 18985
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 3.1


(1)
Message 88 of 853 (865822)
10-31-2019 11:40 AM
Reply to: Message 83 by Phat
10-30-2019 8:11 PM


Re: Becoming My Own Apologist
Phat writes:

Some arguments have no conclusion without evidence and on faith alone.


We're talking about scriptural evidence here, so what you're really saying is that apologetic beliefs trump scriptural evidence. That's pretty shaky ground.

Phat writes:

For me, it is already too late to renounce my beliefs....


It's never too late to throw away superstition and embrace reality.

Edited by ringo, : Sp6lling.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 83 by Phat, posted 10-30-2019 8:11 PM Phat has not yet responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 18985
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 3.1


Message 99 of 853 (865911)
11-02-2019 11:50 AM
Reply to: Message 92 by Phat
11-01-2019 12:01 PM


Re: Becoming My Own Apologist
Phat writes:

... when you say really stupid things like "the snake told the truth. God (character) lied"...


That's exactly what it says. I'm still waiting for you to defend the apologists' mangled version. Until you can do that, you're just making yourself look foolish.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 92 by Phat, posted 11-01-2019 12:01 PM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 100 by Phat, posted 11-02-2019 4:14 PM ringo has responded
 Message 101 by Phat, posted 11-02-2019 4:20 PM ringo has responded
 Message 102 by Phat, posted 11-02-2019 4:29 PM ringo has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 18985
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 3.1


Message 113 of 853 (865955)
11-03-2019 1:10 PM
Reply to: Message 100 by Phat
11-02-2019 4:14 PM


Re: Becoming My Own Apologist
Phat writes:

...the Bible is not simply some storybook of a compilation of goatherder stories describing the various ideas about a god whom they believed in.


Yes it is. If you want to argue otherwise, you need an actual argument, not just an assertion.

Phat writes:

It is a story of a people who actually had a god (God) reveal Himself to them.


So is the Qur'an. So is the Book of Mormon.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 100 by Phat, posted 11-02-2019 4:14 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
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