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Author | Topic: Testing The Christian Apologists | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 432 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Phat writes:
What's wrong with that? Did God give you a brain just to fill up the parking space by the door?
You guys just want me to think--to use my mind. Phat writes:
It prevents me from spewing the bullshit that you do? What's wrong with that?
But look at what it has done for you. Phat writes:
And you no longer believe in Santa Claus. What's wrong with that?
You are no longer believers. Phat writes:
Freedom from lies and stupidity? What's wrong with that? Why would I want that?"If you can keep your head when all about you Are losing theirs and blaming it on you...." -- Rudyard Kipling
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ringo Member (Idle past 432 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Faith writes:
But we do have evidence. "By their fruits ye shall know them." (Matthew 7:16-20) Tangle writes:
The amazing certainty with which you and others assert such emptyheaded irrational biases that have no evidence for them whatever... You have no knowledge of god and there is nothing to study except the works of man."But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law. (Galatians 5:22-23) Where's your meekness?"If you can keep your head when all about you Are losing theirs and blaming it on you...." -- Rudyard Kipling
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ringo Member (Idle past 432 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Dust is physical. Ribs are physical. Trees are physical. Food is physical. Feuding with snakes is physical. Pain in childbirth is physical. Sweating to grow food is physical. If there was anything in Genesis 2-3 pointing to "spiritual" death, it should have been easy to point it out. Nobody did.
"If you can keep your head when all about you Are losing theirs and blaming it on you...." -- Rudyard Kipling |
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ringo Member (Idle past 432 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
So you're wiser than the people who wrote the Book?
Because I'm wise enough to know that God does not lie. Phat writes:
And you're nauseatingly repetitive in denying that the book says what it says. if you can't understand a simple tautology, why would anybody think you're wiser than the authors who wrote what they wrote?
Both of you are nauseatingly repetitive emphasizing that the book says what it says. Phat writes:
But when? When will you actually argue a point instead of just asserting opinions?
I too will argue this point when the scripture supports what I want it to say. Phat writes:
As long as you continue to scoff at critical thinking, you have no claim to being wise. I turn to the apologists rather than a bunch of critically thinking atheists... And until you actually present an apologist argument, we have no reason to think you even understand them.
Phat writes:
So the truth doesn't matter to you at all. All that matters is what you want to hear. ... because I need people who also believe that God speaks to them rather than a bunch of non-believers who are nearly universally certain that God does not speak at all."If you can keep your head when all about you Are losing theirs and blaming it on you...." -- Rudyard Kipling
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ringo Member (Idle past 432 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Faith writes:
Not really. Most of the Biblical references to meekness seem to be about interpersonal relationships, e.g.: Meekness is the spirit of submission to God.quote: It may be submission to God that causes it but it is demonstrated "unto all men"."If you can keep your head when all about you Are losing theirs and blaming it on you...." -- Rudyard Kipling
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ringo Member (Idle past 432 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
You may know more about driving cars and operating computers but what makes you think you know more about God?
I know more about reality than they do. Phat writes:
So there you go. What's your advantage in knowing that God? Your disadvantage is that you're encumbered by the nonsense that the apologists make up.
The God they encountered will be the one I encounter, however. Phat writes:
In other words, you'll make it all up to suit yourself.
I too can write a book. In my book, the Holy Spirit will be with the believers. The skeptics and those who demand evidence to prove belief will be left in the dust. Phat writes:
If you cling to your beliefs contrary to the evidence, you are certainly delusional. That's what the definition of delusion is. You likely will say that it will be the other way around and that those of us who accept God without evidence are delusional."If you can keep your head when all about you Are losing theirs and blaming it on you...." -- Rudyard Kipling
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ringo Member (Idle past 432 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
But you'll gladly gloat about being "wiser" than us. None of us are worthy to discipline you."If you can keep your head when all about you Are losing theirs and blaming it on you...." -- Rudyard Kipling
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ringo Member (Idle past 432 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
You didn't answer the question. I asked, "... what makes you think you know more about God?" Why do you know more than the ancient goat-herders who wrote about God lying? Why is your perspective, cluttered as it is by books and apologetics, better than theirs? The only way to *know* about God is by encountering God."If you can keep your head when all about you Are losing theirs and blaming it on you...." -- Rudyard Kipling
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ringo Member (Idle past 432 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
No you were not. Try to keep track of your own posts, at least. You used the word "you" specifically: I was referring to the bronze Age Goat Herders. Not you specifically.quote:in reply to Theodoric saying: quote: "If you can keep your head when all about you Are losing theirs and blaming it on you...." -- Rudyard Kipling
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ringo Member (Idle past 432 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
And you need to demonstrate that you have learned by repeating the argument in your own words. ... this is how I learn."If you can keep your head when all about you Are losing theirs and blaming it on you...." -- Rudyard Kipling
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ringo Member (Idle past 432 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
You're halfway there. I tend to agree with this professor's opinion that neither god nor the snake lied in that specific instance."If you can keep your head when all about you Are losing theirs and blaming it on you...." -- Rudyard Kipling
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ringo Member (Idle past 432 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Faith writes:
Ironically, you portray God as the same petty tyrant that you say He isn't. Why would He be FORCED to act against us? If He is so far beyond our understanding, why would He even notice us? God's wrath and vengeance are aimed against human actions that are so contrary to the nature of God, so attached to false gods of all sorts, that He MUST act AGAINST us."If you can keep your head when all about you Are losing theirs and blaming it on you...." -- Rudyard Kipling
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ringo Member (Idle past 432 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Faith writes:
Yes, we know you believe in a puny God who can only act within strict restraints. God has to act righteously...."If you can keep your head when all about you Are losing theirs and blaming it on you...." -- Rudyard Kipling
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ringo Member (Idle past 432 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
The story needs no marketing. It says what it says.
And yet you and jar can market and support a story about a God Who lies? Phat writes:
No, not blasphemy. Your own Book might contradict what your apologist idols are telling you but reading the Book as written is not blasphemy by any definition of the word.
Absolute blasphemy! Phat writes:
So Titus disagrees with Genesis. Why do you choose to believe Titus? And why do you choose to believe in a limited god who can't do things?
It does not take a rocket scientist to know that God cannot lie. Phat writes:
On the contrary, I have said flat out that your quote does contradict another quote (not by "my insistence at all). Wake up and smell the coffee. The Bible does have contradictions.
But of course, you will come up with some excuse or another of why my quote from the book does not contradict your insistence that the god "character" lied. Phat writes:
I couldn't care less about descriptions of somebody's belief. If you have an argument, make it.
I find many instances where other Theologians describe the belief that they were taught regarding those passages. Phat writes:
I'm saying that every theologian who refuses to see the contradictions is dishonest.
ts easy to cry that every single Theologian who doesn't see it your way is dishonest. Phat writes:
I stand on the Bible. You stand on apologists.
Clearly neither one of you can do anything but stand on the premise. Phat writes:
There is no "want". I don't care what the Bible says about God any more than I care what Treasure Island says about long John Silver. It says what it says and an honest person has to accept what it says.
I think its because you want the idea that Genesis is simply written by humans and that these humans wanted the god character they invented to lie. Phat writes:
There is no need to trash that idea. It's an untenable position already.
You have attempted to trash the idea that God exists outside of the book characters and portrayals. Phat writes:
On the contrary, you're the one who is trying to spread lies about the Bible.
You basically argue the side of evil, here. Phat writes:
We're talking about a character in a book here. If there is a god outside the book, that's a separate issue.
You reduce the character of God to human creation... Phat writes:
I accuse Christians of denying the message of the book, not just ignoring it.
... accusing Christians themselves of ignoring the message of the book--- Phat writes:
Who should you believe? The guy on the infomercial who is trying to sell you a product (i.e. the professional who makes his living by selling you stuff)? Or the consumer reports who warn you that the product will burst into flames? Who am I going to believe? Professionals or armchair skeptics and critics of organized religion?"If you can keep your head when all about you Are losing theirs and blaming it on you...." -- Rudyard Kipling
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ringo Member (Idle past 432 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
You did say it. In Message 514, I asked, "So you're wiser than the people who wrote the Book?" and in Message 516 you replied, "In some ways yes. I know more about reality than they do." And presumably, you include God as part of reality.
ringo writes:
I wouldn't say it is any better. Why is your perspective, cluttered as it is by books and apologetics, better than theirs? Phat writes:
And the cultural ideas about God in the past two thousand years have evolved to what you believe. What's the difference? Thus, the cultural ideas about God in general likely led to the writing that God lied to A&E."If you can keep your head when all about you Are losing theirs and blaming it on you...." -- Rudyard Kipling
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