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Author Topic:   Testing The Christian Apologists
Thugpreacha
Member
Posts: 13193
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 151 of 258 (866066)
11-05-2019 6:01 AM
Reply to: Message 150 by Tangle
11-05-2019 3:47 AM


Re: Every God or god is made up!
tangle writes:

You can't see past your beliefs.

I think I've done pretty well. Most Christians wouldn't listen to either atheist podcasts or secular humanist podcasts as I have done.


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

“As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.”
? R.C. Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith


This message is a reply to:
 Message 150 by Tangle, posted 11-05-2019 3:47 AM Tangle has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 153 by Tangle, posted 11-05-2019 6:50 AM Thugpreacha has acknowledged this reply

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 33699
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 152 of 258 (866067)
11-05-2019 6:28 AM
Reply to: Message 148 by AZPaul3
11-04-2019 7:14 PM


The whole world likes noodles
So you think that where you're born doesn't determine what you believe?

Of course!

He reaches out, no matter where in the world you may live. He doesn’t wait for you to explore your heart. He doesn’t call waiting for you to answer. He chooses you.

Having read just this far I was amazed that you would say something so true about God, but then of course you go on and spoil it with stuff about Noodlyness. Only of course mostly He reaches out through His missionaries. Interestingly, though, for a few decades now we've been hearing stories of Muslims being converted to Christ through ****** and visions.

{to Percy: Excuse me Mr. Mad ******, but it really is some kind of madness to ****** an ordinary word like "******." I beg you, if you object to something I say please do not punish the English language for it or destroy my ability to write a coherent post, please suspend me instead. I have no idea what I could have said that provoked you to maiming poor innocent words, so it doesn't help if you intend by it to teach me something.

Really this is too much, what you've done to that last paragraph. Obviously you don't care if I stay or go so I think I'll go.}

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 148 by AZPaul3, posted 11-04-2019 7:14 PM AZPaul3 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 155 by AZPaul3, posted 11-05-2019 8:12 AM Faith has responded

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 7129
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.0


Message 153 of 258 (866068)
11-05-2019 6:50 AM
Reply to: Message 151 by Thugpreacha
11-05-2019 6:01 AM


Re: Every God or god is made up!
Phat writes:

I think I've done pretty well. Most Christians wouldn't listen to either atheist podcasts or secular humanist podcasts as I have done.

You get points for listening, but you've not understood or accepted a word of it. You're still making the same mistakes that you were making years ago, still making the same assertions and assumptions about atheists that you've been told are wrong a thousand times.

I don't expect you to accept my version of the world, just understand it and not apply your own interpretation on top of it. I admit that it does seem hopeless.


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 151 by Thugpreacha, posted 11-05-2019 6:01 AM Thugpreacha has acknowledged this reply

  
jar
Member
Posts: 31646
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 154 of 258 (866070)
11-05-2019 7:18 AM
Reply to: Message 149 by Thugpreacha
11-05-2019 12:05 AM


Re: Every God or god is made up!
Phat writes:

Pathetic. How can you call yourself a believer?

Perhaps because I am a believer?

Phat writes:

You laugh at the ones who claim to have witnessed the supernatural only because your mind have never been there.

Once again, stop misrepresenting what I say or believe or do.

I do not laugh at the ones who claim to have witnessed the supernatural but instead ask them how they knew it was supernatural; what tests and verification they used to determine if it was supernatural.

Phat writes:

You will see, however. I can learn nothing more from any of you.

What do you mean "more"?

Phat, you and the Apologists are the ones claiming to know God. It is the rest of us that have been asking for decades to learn from you. How do you know?


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 149 by Thugpreacha, posted 11-05-2019 12:05 AM Thugpreacha has acknowledged this reply

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 4740
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 4.2


Message 155 of 258 (866073)
11-05-2019 8:12 AM
Reply to: Message 152 by Faith
11-05-2019 6:28 AM


Re: The whole world likes noodles
I'm sure your cult would concentrate on conversions to itself. It makes you seem right. But you never mention how many millions of your former christians have turned to Pastafarianism. And how many from all the other sects and cults around the world have embraced The FSM (May Parmesan Be Upon Him)?

Boatloads. Absolute boatloads. Actually, pirate ship loads. Lots and lots of pirate ship loads.

And who can blame them?

Gone is the threat of heaven and the boring eternity of constant genuflecting to a ghost. Gone is the threat of hell and the lake of fire.

In their places are the blessings of His Noodleyness for all to share for all time yet to come. Unlimited pastas of dozens of varieties with sauces in ladles big and small of hundreds of sublime flavors potent, pungent, sweet and savory. A beer volcano with many spouting rifts of ales and lagers and all manor of individual and hybrid styles within the realm of every category of beer ever conceived by the most artisan brew masters. Even soft drinks and wines. And the Stripper Factory. Pole dancing, table dancing, lap dancing, male, female, both, neither. All this for the eternal pleasures of all the dead former human beings, believers or not. All will partake of His bounty and His Holy Communal Table.

Did I mention the comfy couches and the three-day weekends?

Our pasta, who art in colander, draining be thy noodles.
Thy pasta done, Thy sauce be yum, topped off with grated Parmesan.
Give us this day our garlic bread and strippers on our tables for entertainment.
Forgive us our burpings, as we forgive those who beer belch around us.
And lead us not into vegetarianism, but deliver us some meat sauce.
For thine is the pasta, the meatball, the onion, and the bay leaf, forever and ever. R'Amen.

Edited by AZPaul3, : No reason given.


Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 152 by Faith, posted 11-05-2019 6:28 AM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 156 by Faith, posted 11-05-2019 9:45 AM AZPaul3 has responded
 Message 158 by Theodoric, posted 11-05-2019 10:08 AM AZPaul3 has responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 33699
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 156 of 258 (866080)
11-05-2019 9:45 AM
Reply to: Message 155 by AZPaul3
11-05-2019 8:12 AM


Re: The whole world likes noodles
My "cult" is mainstream Protestantism or evangelicalism, pretty standard stuff, not a cult.

I wasn't counting conversions I was commenting on your description of God choosing people from everywhere in the world, which I said is through His missionaries, which is biblically called The Great Commission. How many are converted to other religions is **********, sad and **********.

{Sigh. I've got to stop posting since Percy is extirpating ordinary words. I bet "extirpating" isn't on his list yet, mayhbe now it is. Supposedly I use them to denigrate people but I don't even know what he is talking about even when he explains it}

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 155 by AZPaul3, posted 11-05-2019 8:12 AM AZPaul3 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 160 by ringo, posted 11-05-2019 11:19 AM Faith has responded
 Message 161 by AZPaul3, posted 11-05-2019 11:37 AM Faith has not yet responded

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 6827
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.1


Message 157 of 258 (866082)
11-05-2019 9:59 AM
Reply to: Message 149 by Thugpreacha
11-05-2019 12:05 AM


Re: Every God or god is made up!
Things like this show why you are a horrible choice as an moderator. I realize this is not a posting under your admin hat, but your vehement condemnation of those who believe differently than you spills over. It is similar to how a non-christian feels going into a courtroom with your 10 commandments posted. In neither place would I feel that I would be treated fairly.

You will see, however.

People have been waiting since the first hominid conceived of the idea of a god or gods. Your own book acknowledges multiple gods.

I can learn nothing more from any of you.

And that is your problem, not ours.

I see you went inactive. Crisis of faith? I do not understand why the religious get so worked up about people having different beliefs. The only reason it effects them is because they let it. It really does not reflect well on the confidence they have in their own beliefs.

Edited by Theodoric, : No reason given.


Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 149 by Thugpreacha, posted 11-05-2019 12:05 AM Thugpreacha has acknowledged this reply

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 6827
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.1


Message 158 of 258 (866083)
11-05-2019 10:08 AM
Reply to: Message 155 by AZPaul3
11-05-2019 8:12 AM


Re: The whole world likes noodles
As an ordained Pastafarian minister and is nice to see another passing on the message of his Noodliness.
One thing I really like about being a Pastafarian is that I can hold other religious views also.
I am also an ordained minister in the Church of the Latter Day Dude. Yes I am a Dudeist Priest.
Both churches help me fulfill my spiritual needs and I following the tenets of each has made me a better person. Well, in my own eyes.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 155 by AZPaul3, posted 11-05-2019 8:12 AM AZPaul3 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 162 by AZPaul3, posted 11-05-2019 11:50 AM Theodoric has not yet responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 17538
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 3.2


(1)
Message 159 of 258 (866085)
11-05-2019 11:06 AM
Reply to: Message 143 by Thugpreacha
11-04-2019 3:33 PM


Re: Snakes & Snails & Puppy Dog Tails
Phat writes:

I am simply agreeing with those who share a love of the stories...


They may love the versions that they've made up but they don't love the stories as written.

Phat writes:

... and who claim to have an overall insight into the Author(or authors, editors, and redactors) behind the stories.


That's where they're wrong. You can't have an "overall insight" on a group of individual books.

Phat writes:

None of us know what was going through the mind of the first goat herder to tell a story.


But we do know what the story actually says.

Phat writes:

ringo writes:

The part about Jesus being there at the beginning is made-up apologetics.


Not according to the gospel of John. It clearly says that God was in the beginning and the Word was with God and was God.

It says no such thing. Jesus is not mentioned at all.

Phat writes:

Perhaps you could argue that this clearly does not mean Jesus, but who then would it mean?


It doesn't say anything about a "who". It says "the Word". That's a "what".

Phat writes:

You seem to have a problem with anything that is believed as if it were made up.


No. I have a problem with things that are obviously made up.

Phat writes:

Snakes are not usually calming influences which is why I find your conclusion that this snake told the truth puzzling unless you are simply defending what is plainly written.


Of course I am defending what is plainly written. I have said so many times.

The story explains why (supposedly) snakes are unsettling.

You have no basis for being puzzled that the snake told the truth because the snake plainly told the truth.

Phat writes:

In which case I would ask you why you don't relate to the god character and relate more to the snake of whom it was told


It has nothing to do with relating to one character or another. It's about what the story says.

Phat writes:

Now, to be fair, we can attempt to find an answer why this God character would be mad at the snake which allegedly told the truth.


You don't have to look very far. It's pretty common to be angry when one's lies are exposed.

Phat writes:

We could then tie the snake's purpose....


There's no need to speculate about the snake's purpose. He doesn't need an excuse to tell the truth.

Phat writes:

But to say that the God character lied is quibbling with semantics.


On the contrary. Claiming that "on the day" means years in the future is quibbling with semantics. "Spiritual death" is quibbling with semantics.

Phat writes:

the apologists have a good explanation that it was spiritual death. This is also supportable by the fact that the God character cursed the snake for what it said.


How is that a "good explanation"? What does cursing the snake have to do with humans' spiritual death?

Phat writes:

I would also submit that we don't simply create Gods to serve us, do we?


Of course we do.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 143 by Thugpreacha, posted 11-04-2019 3:33 PM Thugpreacha has acknowledged this reply

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 17538
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 3.2


(1)
Message 160 of 258 (866086)
11-05-2019 11:19 AM
Reply to: Message 156 by Faith
11-05-2019 9:45 AM


Re: The whole world likes noodles
Faith writes:

My "cult" is mainstream Protestantism or evangelicalism...


The main stream of Christianity is Roman Catholicism. Protestantism would be a fairly big stream if it was all one stream but in fact it's many small streams, with evangelicalism as one if its less-significant rivulets. The noisy rapids don't carry the most water.

Faith writes:

I've got to stop posting since Percy is extirpating ordinary words.


Oddly enough, I almost never get censored. Maybe you just need to choose your words more carefully.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 156 by Faith, posted 11-05-2019 9:45 AM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 163 by Faith, posted 11-05-2019 6:02 PM ringo has responded

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 4740
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 4.2


Message 161 of 258 (866087)
11-05-2019 11:37 AM
Reply to: Message 156 by Faith
11-05-2019 9:45 AM


Re: The whole world likes noodles
All religions are cults. That is the very definition of the word.

Even in the vernacular you are trying to use, a religion is but a cult that thinks too highly of themselves.


Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 156 by Faith, posted 11-05-2019 9:45 AM Faith has not yet responded

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 4740
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 4.2


Message 162 of 258 (866088)
11-05-2019 11:50 AM
Reply to: Message 158 by Theodoric
11-05-2019 10:08 AM


Re: The whole world likes noodles
I am also an ordained minister in the Church of the Latter Day Dude. Yes I am a Dudeist Priest.

That, Sir, is heresy!

Fortunately, in FSM (May Pesto Be Upon Him) Pastafarianism such heresies are accepted, even encouraged.

Welcome Brother, Fellow of the Order of the Colander.

May His Noodley Appendage throttle your mind.


Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 158 by Theodoric, posted 11-05-2019 10:08 AM Theodoric has not yet responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 33699
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 163 of 258 (866097)
11-05-2019 6:02 PM
Reply to: Message 160 by ringo
11-05-2019 11:19 AM


The RCC saves nobody
Sorry the Protestant Reformation showed that Roman Catholicism isn't even Christian, it's a heresy, basically paganism with a false method of salvation that will only send people to Hell.

And Protestantism IS one stream, all teaching one fundamental method of salvation, all by Christ alone through faith, no works of our own.

And what words do you think I'm not choosing carefully enough? "**********" is one he's ********, as well as "******" itself, and "*************."

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 160 by ringo, posted 11-05-2019 11:19 AM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 164 by ringo, posted 11-05-2019 9:40 PM Faith has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 17538
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 3.2


(1)
Message 164 of 258 (866107)
11-05-2019 9:40 PM
Reply to: Message 163 by Faith
11-05-2019 6:02 PM


Re: The RCC saves nobody
Faith writes:

And what words do you think I'm not choosing carefully enough?


I'm saying that YOU should think carefully about the words you use. Then you might not post the kind of stupid drivel in the rest of your post.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 163 by Faith, posted 11-05-2019 6:02 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 165 by Faith, posted 11-06-2019 10:25 AM ringo has responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 33699
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 165 of 258 (866135)
11-06-2019 10:25 AM
Reply to: Message 164 by ringo
11-05-2019 9:40 PM


Re: The RCC saves nobody
And *I* am saying that I chose the words "************" and "**********" among others and you are the Drivel Master.

And I'll repeat it because it matters: The RCC teaches a works-oriented salvation doctrine that contradicts the Bible and can only take people to Hell. We are saved by Christ's sacrifice ALONE through grace ALONE and no works at all "lest any man should boast." .


This message is a reply to:
 Message 164 by ringo, posted 11-05-2019 9:40 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 166 by AZPaul3, posted 11-06-2019 11:27 AM Faith has responded
 Message 173 by ringo, posted 11-06-2019 2:12 PM Faith has responded

  
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