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Author Topic:   Testing The Christian Apologists
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 4740
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 4.2


Message 166 of 257 (866145)
11-06-2019 11:27 AM
Reply to: Message 165 by Faith
11-06-2019 10:25 AM


Re: The RCC saves nobody
We are saved by Christ's sacrifice ALONE through grace ALONE and no works at all "lest any man should boast."

Not my conversation but I just have to comment.

Works, no works, makes no difference. No one's going to heaven. No one's going to hell. We're all going back to that great energy well called Earth scattered amongst its ecosystems and environments to be recycled yet again. Ashes to ashes. Dust to dust.


Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 165 by Faith, posted 11-06-2019 10:25 AM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 167 by Faith, posted 11-06-2019 11:30 AM AZPaul3 has responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 33699
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 167 of 257 (866146)
11-06-2019 11:30 AM
Reply to: Message 166 by AZPaul3
11-06-2019 11:27 AM


Re: The RCC saves nobody
Remarkable how you can believe a pure invention of your own mind. What I believe is external to me, objectively given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 166 by AZPaul3, posted 11-06-2019 11:27 AM AZPaul3 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 168 by AZPaul3, posted 11-06-2019 11:51 AM Faith has responded

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 4740
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 4.2


Message 168 of 257 (866155)
11-06-2019 11:51 AM
Reply to: Message 167 by Faith
11-06-2019 11:30 AM


Re: The RCC saves nobody
Thermodynamics, especially entropy, is the law. It will not be violated no matter how hard you close your eyes, click your heels, and wish.

We know from where your fantasies come. Within a religionist's head, external and objective are synonyms for emotional and wishful thinking. Heavy on the hypocrisy.


Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 167 by Faith, posted 11-06-2019 11:30 AM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 169 by Faith, posted 11-06-2019 12:02 PM AZPaul3 has responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 33699
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 169 of 257 (866156)
11-06-2019 12:02 PM
Reply to: Message 168 by AZPaul3
11-06-2019 11:51 AM


Re: The RCC saves nobody
Yes thermodynamics works irrevocably on the physical body but we are more than physical and your soul is immortal whether you **** it or not. I should think you would appreciate your own ******* human qualities which are certainly not physical but as God says He had to give up arguing with us for we are "but flesh" and flesh can't grasp the truth. He also says "Flesh cannot inherit the Kingdom of God," it's for the human spirit. Thermodynamics operates because of the Fall, which deprived us of our spiritual sense and **** us "but flesh." This I know through revelation, it's not something a person of mere flesh, whose "breath is in his nostrils" rather than the breath of God, could grasp without revelation. You'd rather trust your fleshly senses unfortunately. I'm sorry.

External and objedtive refers to the revelation which is outside me and had to be learned because my own nature could never intuit it.

And I was **** you until my mid to late forties, just as much in the dark about these things because of my flesh as you are. But to you I'm just a ***** person so barring a miracle there is no hope. Oh but I do believe in miracles so there is some hope.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 168 by AZPaul3, posted 11-06-2019 11:51 AM AZPaul3 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 170 by AZPaul3, posted 11-06-2019 12:16 PM Faith has responded

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 4740
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 4.2


(1)
Message 170 of 257 (866158)
11-06-2019 12:16 PM
Reply to: Message 169 by Faith
11-06-2019 12:02 PM


Re: The RCC saves nobody
Thermodynamics works because of the universe. Your talking snake has nothing to say on this.

External and objedtive refers to the revelation which is outside me and had to be learned because my own nature could never intuit it.

Ahh, yes. Emotion and wishful thinking. The religionist's external objectivity. No wonder you people lost the war for influence in this society.


Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 169 by Faith, posted 11-06-2019 12:02 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 171 by Faith, posted 11-06-2019 12:22 PM AZPaul3 has not yet responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 33699
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 171 of 257 (866159)
11-06-2019 12:22 PM
Reply to: Message 170 by AZPaul3
11-06-2019 12:16 PM


Re: The RCC saves nobody
Losing the war for influence is unfortunately the result of a lack of vigilance against the world, the flesh and the devil. It is our own fault for that reason, certainly, but the spirit is a subtle thing and unbelievers are "but flesh' who cannot discern the truth, and the devil spends all his time affirming your fleshly beliefs, and the world is made up of fleshly human beings. There's a lot working against us and we have not been vigilant. We are always falling into sin and losing our spiritual compass.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 170 by AZPaul3, posted 11-06-2019 12:16 PM AZPaul3 has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 172 by Tangle, posted 11-06-2019 12:58 PM Faith has responded

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 7129
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.0


(1)
Message 172 of 257 (866160)
11-06-2019 12:58 PM
Reply to: Message 171 by Faith
11-06-2019 12:22 PM


Re: The RCC saves nobody
You'd have made a great 17th century Catholic.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 171 by Faith, posted 11-06-2019 12:22 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 175 by Faith, posted 11-06-2019 6:32 PM Tangle has not yet responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 17538
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 3.2


(1)
Message 173 of 257 (866163)
11-06-2019 2:12 PM
Reply to: Message 165 by Faith
11-06-2019 10:25 AM


Re: The RCC saves nobody
Faith writes:

The RCC teaches a works-oriented salvation doctrine that contradicts the Bible...


Nope.
quote:
James 2:14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?

15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,

16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?

17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.



"If you can keep your head when all about you
Are losing theirs and blaming it on you...."
-- Rudyard Kipling

This message is a reply to:
 Message 165 by Faith, posted 11-06-2019 10:25 AM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 174 by Faith, posted 11-06-2019 6:30 PM ringo has responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 33699
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 174 of 257 (866173)
11-06-2019 6:30 PM
Reply to: Message 173 by ringo
11-06-2019 2:12 PM


Re: The RCC saves nobody
The RCC condemned the Protestant Reformation's Faith without Works formula. Side with the RCC if you want but what I've said is true.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 173 by ringo, posted 11-06-2019 2:12 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 176 by jar, posted 11-06-2019 6:58 PM Faith has responded
 Message 179 by ringo, posted 11-07-2019 10:41 AM Faith has responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 33699
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 175 of 257 (866174)
11-06-2019 6:32 PM
Reply to: Message 172 by Tangle
11-06-2019 12:58 PM


Re: The RCC saves nobody
Catholics and Protestants agree on some things, just not the most important things.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 172 by Tangle, posted 11-06-2019 12:58 PM Tangle has not yet responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 31646
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 176 of 257 (866179)
11-06-2019 6:58 PM
Reply to: Message 174 by Faith
11-06-2019 6:30 PM


Re: The RCC saves nobody
As a Protestant Christian I will point out that Faith without Works is valueless.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 174 by Faith, posted 11-06-2019 6:30 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 177 by Faith, posted 11-06-2019 7:00 PM jar has responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 33699
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 177 of 257 (866182)
11-06-2019 7:00 PM
Reply to: Message 176 by jar
11-06-2019 6:58 PM


Re: The RCC saves nobody
Which is a meaningless statem4ent in itself since works FOLLOW faith and in THAT sense faith without works is dead, but WORKS HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH SALVATION.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 176 by jar, posted 11-06-2019 6:58 PM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 178 by jar, posted 11-06-2019 7:27 PM Faith has not yet responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 31646
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 178 of 257 (866184)
11-06-2019 7:27 PM
Reply to: Message 177 by Faith
11-06-2019 7:00 PM


Quotes from the "What's in it for ME Christianity"
Faith writes:

Which is a meaningless statem4ent in itself since works FOLLOW faith and in THAT sense faith without works is dead, but WORKS HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH SALVATION.

That's just more of the "What's in it for me" Chapter of Club Christian excuse making.

Works stand on their own. Faith plays no role. Works can be justified, faith cannot.

Salvation is irrelevant and again more of just a cheap marketing ploy for snake oil salesmen that is very profiable, legal and carries no product liability.


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 177 by Faith, posted 11-06-2019 7:00 PM Faith has not yet responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 17538
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 3.2


(1)
Message 179 of 257 (866212)
11-07-2019 10:41 AM
Reply to: Message 174 by Faith
11-06-2019 6:30 PM


Re: The RCC saves nobody
Faith writes:

The RCC condemned the Protestant Reformation's Faith without Works formula.


So does the Bible. I quoted it. And it continues:
quote:
James 2:20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?

22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?

23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.

24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.


What part of "not by faith only" do you not understand?

Faith writes:

Side with the RCC if you want but what I've said is true.


It has nothing to do with sides. What you said is clearly false.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 174 by Faith, posted 11-06-2019 6:30 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 180 by Faith, posted 11-08-2019 1:39 AM ringo has responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 33699
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 180 of 257 (866243)
11-08-2019 1:39 AM
Reply to: Message 179 by ringo
11-07-2019 10:41 AM


Re: The RCC saves nobody
You ignore the places where it is very clear tht we are saved by faith alone in Christ alone without works, and all scripture is to be interpreted in the light of other scripture. So the proper way to understand James' statements is that works validate faith but the faith comes first.

Abraham could not have sacrificed Isaac without strong faith in God. Rahab could not have been willing to *** for the Israelites without strong faith in their God.

Yes faith WITHOUT works is dead but that's a different subject than being saved by faith alone. THEN the works follow. You cannot have faith without works, which would only prove you weren't saved, but you are nevertheless saved by faith alone in Christ alone. Do you really want me to find all THOSE scriptures you so conveniently **** out?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 179 by ringo, posted 11-07-2019 10:41 AM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 182 by ringo, posted 11-08-2019 10:45 AM Faith has responded

  
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