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Author Topic:   Testing The Christian Apologists
Theodoric
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Posts: 6883
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.3


(1)
Message 406 of 472 (867449)
11-25-2019 11:49 AM
Reply to: Message 390 by Thugpreacha
11-24-2019 3:37 PM


Re: Trying To Explain To jar once again...
Phat writes:

So who really cares if you can prove that the text says what it says, which you can, and your claim that it means what it says, which is a ***.


Let's all take a moment and ponder this line from Phat.
Wow!
What his bible actually says doesn't matter. What matters is what he and the fundies want it to mean.
Case closed.
Here is an admission from Phat that he and christian apologists fail the test.
Since he admits that they can not pass the test, might be time to stick a fork in this thread and call it done.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 390 by Thugpreacha, posted 11-24-2019 3:37 PM Thugpreacha has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 411 by Thugpreacha, posted 11-25-2019 12:58 PM Theodoric has not yet responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 31771
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 407 of 472 (867451)
11-25-2019 12:07 PM
Reply to: Message 400 by Thugpreacha
11-25-2019 11:02 AM


Re: the test that the Apologists fail
Yet the reality is that in the Story found in Genesis 2&3 the God character lies and the serpent tells the truth. You may not like my pointing that fact out but it is actually what is written.

Yet the reality is that the God character described in Genesis 1 is entirely different than the God character in Genesis 2&3 or the God character in in Exodus or the God character in Genesis 6&7. You may not like my pointing that fact out but it is actually what is written.

Yet the stories all still have value even if Jesus was just a tale told around campfires. You may not like me pointing that fact out but is is still true.

Phat writes:

It may be what you think Christianity should be but the rest of us Christians don't buy it.

Again, I don't address what Christianity should be; I understand that Christianity is simply a label chosen by people as an identity. Yes, much of Christianity does not buy what I point out, yet it is what Jesus said we should do and what is actually written in the Bible. Apologists exist to offer justification for you and many other Christians to create the religion and Bible and God that YOU desire.

Phat writes:

I also am well aware of what the book says.

So you claim yet in the story found in Genesis 2&3 the God lies and the serpent tells the truth. That is what is actually what the book says.


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 400 by Thugpreacha, posted 11-25-2019 11:02 AM Thugpreacha has not yet responded

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 6883
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.3


Message 408 of 472 (867452)
11-25-2019 12:07 PM
Reply to: Message 403 by Thugpreacha
11-25-2019 11:25 AM


Re: Trying To Explain To jar once again...
I bet we feed more people than your local salvation army or red cross does.

It burns.
First of all would you like to provide some evidence for this claim? I thought not.
The thing that burns is that I guess you do not realize that the salvation army is a very fundie christian organization.

quote:
The Salvation Army (TSA) is a Protestant Christian church and an international charitable organisation. The organisation reports a worldwide membership of over 1.7 million,[3] consisting of soldiers, officers and adherents collectively known as Salvationists. Its founders sought to bring salvation to the poor, destitute, and hungry by meeting both their "physical and spiritual needs". It is present in 131 countries,[4] running charity shops, operating shelters for the homeless and disaster relief and humanitarian aid to developing countries.
The theology of the Salvation Army is derived from that of Methodism, although it is distinctive in institution and practice. A peculiarity of the Army is that it gives its clergy titles of military ranks, such as "lieutenant" or "major". It does not celebrate the rites of Baptism and Holy Communion. However, the Army's doctrine is otherwise typical of holiness churches in the Wesleyan-Arminian tradition. The Army's purposes are "the advancement of the Christian religion ... of education, the relief of poverty, and other charitable objects beneficial to society or the community of mankind as a whole".[5]

The Salvation Army - Wikipedia

Also, I would think that the Red Cross having a cross as it's symbol would give away the fact of it's christian origins. Or does the fact there is a Red Crescent destroy any good will?

International Red Cross and Red Crescent Movement - Wikipedia


Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 403 by Thugpreacha, posted 11-25-2019 11:25 AM Thugpreacha has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 409 by Thugpreacha, posted 11-25-2019 12:31 PM Theodoric has responded

  
Thugpreacha
Member
Posts: 13375
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 409 of 472 (867455)
11-25-2019 12:31 PM
Reply to: Message 408 by Theodoric
11-25-2019 12:07 PM


Re: Trying To Explain To jar once again...
First of all would you like to provide some evidence for this claim? I thought not.
You thought wrong.
My friend volunteers for David CliftonMinistries, which has a food bank and he runs the soup kitchen and assists the Pastor. According to him, they feed an average of 75-100 people per day except when the weather is bad when they can feed 200.

I can look into the stats for other faith-based ministries, but what do you care? You don't seem to trust anything I say anyway. All Im trying to say is that the local church helps as many people as do the secular organizations, excluding the state itself.

And why does it burn? What do you care who feeds the needy as long as they get fed?


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
~"We, humans, are engaged in an ongoing war of ideologies. I see it in this microcosm of EvC Forum just as I see it in the governments and attitudes of people throughout the world. Take your pick: Oppression or Seduction .
"~Thugpreacha

You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

“As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.”
? R.C. Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith


This message is a reply to:
 Message 408 by Theodoric, posted 11-25-2019 12:07 PM Theodoric has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 410 by Theodoric, posted 11-25-2019 12:53 PM Thugpreacha has responded

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 6883
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.3


Message 410 of 472 (867459)
11-25-2019 12:53 PM
Reply to: Message 409 by Thugpreacha
11-25-2019 12:31 PM


Re: Trying To Explain To jar once again...
You thought wrong.
My friend volunteers for David CliftonMinistries, which has a food bank and he runs the soup kitchen and assists the Pastor. According to him, they feed an average of 75-100 people per day except when the weather is bad when they can feed 200.

Oh I see. I missed your caveat. You have reduced all good every organization does to just feeding. So all the services provided by the Red Cross do not count.
How many people does UNICEF feed per day or the UNHCR?

All Im trying to say is that the local church helps as many people as do the secular organizations,

No that is not what you said.
What do you care who feeds the needy as long as they get fed?

I don't, but you seem to.
Didn't you spout this?
Phat writes:

I bet we feed more people than your local salvation army or red cross does.


Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 409 by Thugpreacha, posted 11-25-2019 12:31 PM Thugpreacha has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 412 by Thugpreacha, posted 11-25-2019 1:02 PM Theodoric has not yet responded

  
Thugpreacha
Member
Posts: 13375
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 411 of 472 (867460)
11-25-2019 12:58 PM
Reply to: Message 406 by Theodoric
11-25-2019 11:49 AM


Re: Trying To Explain To jar once again...
Theo writes:

What matters is what he and the fundies want it to mean.
Case closed.

Not even. Do you really think we are gonna take a bunch of atheists seriously when they try and teach us what the Bible means? That would be almost as laughable as you listening to Alexandria Ocasio Cortez's attempt to explain economics to Milton Friedman! (Although he is dead, so no, that would not be funny )

Seriously, despite my usuing the appeal to popularity, I will trust the majority over a literalist socialist atheist minority. As for jar, he is on his own planet anyway. I dont find many Anglicans agreeing with him on everything.


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
~"We, humans, are engaged in an ongoing war of ideologies. I see it in this microcosm of EvC Forum just as I see it in the governments and attitudes of people throughout the world. Take your pick: Oppression or Seduction .
"~Thugpreacha

You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

“As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.”
? R.C. Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith


This message is a reply to:
 Message 406 by Theodoric, posted 11-25-2019 11:49 AM Theodoric has not yet responded

  
Thugpreacha
Member
Posts: 13375
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 412 of 472 (867461)
11-25-2019 1:02 PM
Reply to: Message 410 by Theodoric
11-25-2019 12:53 PM


Re: Trying To Explain To jar once again...
OK, you win. I did open my mouth first. Now can we move on? Im more concerned about how ringo attempts to define what my religion should be teaching. You all seem to get so mad when the creationists do that in schools and yet you are trying to teach us what the Bible really says as if you have any clue beyond your secular critical exegesis.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
~"We, humans, are engaged in an ongoing war of ideologies. I see it in this microcosm of EvC Forum just as I see it in the governments and attitudes of people throughout the world. Take your pick: Oppression or Seduction .
"~Thugpreacha

You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

“As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.”
? R.C. Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith


This message is a reply to:
 Message 410 by Theodoric, posted 11-25-2019 12:53 PM Theodoric has not yet responded

  
Thugpreacha
Member
Posts: 13375
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 413 of 472 (867470)
11-25-2019 2:50 PM
Reply to: Message 401 by ringo
11-25-2019 11:13 AM


Wrestling With ringos socialist agendas. .
Phat writes:

You don't even believe that the character exists outside of the book.


ringo writes:

What has that got to do with reading what the book says?

because many of us believe that Jesus speaks through the scriptures, teaching you as you study. There has been many a Bible study where we read passages we have read before and get a fresh interpretation.
ringo writes:

I agree that the Christianity dilutes the secular humanism, so let's get rid of the Christianity entirely.

I knew that you valued socialism more than the messenger. Your socialism will break down along with the rest of the world systems when the fossil fuels run out and the oceans rise. Watch Christianity take off and grow exponentially. Then you really will have a lot of nuts and false prophets to deal with, as will we.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
~"We, humans, are engaged in an ongoing war of ideologies. I see it in this microcosm of EvC Forum just as I see it in the governments and attitudes of people throughout the world. Take your pick: Oppression or Seduction .
"~Thugpreacha

You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

“As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.”
? R.C. Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith


This message is a reply to:
 Message 401 by ringo, posted 11-25-2019 11:13 AM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 414 by Theodoric, posted 11-25-2019 4:56 PM Thugpreacha has responded
 Message 423 by ringo, posted 11-26-2019 10:47 AM Thugpreacha has responded

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 6883
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.3


Message 414 of 472 (867475)
11-25-2019 4:56 PM
Reply to: Message 413 by Thugpreacha
11-25-2019 2:50 PM


Re: Wrestling With ringos socialist agendas. .
Do you even know what socialism is? It always amazes me that avowed christians attack socialism and embrace authoritarian and/or corporate rule.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 413 by Thugpreacha, posted 11-25-2019 2:50 PM Thugpreacha has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 415 by Thugpreacha, posted 11-25-2019 5:31 PM Theodoric has responded

  
Thugpreacha
Member
Posts: 13375
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 415 of 472 (867477)
11-25-2019 5:31 PM
Reply to: Message 414 by Theodoric
11-25-2019 4:56 PM


Re: Wrestling With ringos socialist agendas. .
From what I understand, its basically collective ownership. Nothing is privately owned. As long as I'm not forced to share my home with a bunch of street people, I can tolerate it. Some areas of life remain sacred. I could care less if I'm ever rich, but I do consider some things mine and nobody else's.

And I don't want the government messing with my freedom of religion, speech, or keeping their hand in my wallet.


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
~"We, humans, are engaged in an ongoing war of ideologies. I see it in this microcosm of EvC Forum just as I see it in the governments and attitudes of people throughout the world. Take your pick: Oppression or Seduction .
"~Thugpreacha

You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

“As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.”
? R.C. Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith


This message is a reply to:
 Message 414 by Theodoric, posted 11-25-2019 4:56 PM Theodoric has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 416 by Tangle, posted 11-25-2019 6:07 PM Thugpreacha has not yet responded
 Message 418 by Theodoric, posted 11-25-2019 11:28 PM Thugpreacha has responded
 Message 424 by ringo, posted 11-26-2019 10:51 AM Thugpreacha has responded

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 7202
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 3.3


Message 416 of 472 (867480)
11-25-2019 6:07 PM
Reply to: Message 415 by Thugpreacha
11-25-2019 5:31 PM


Re: Wrestling With ringos socialist agendas. .
Phat writes:

From what I understand, its basically collective ownership. Nothing is privately owned.

That like saying Christianity is the polluted, corrupted, bad-natured and near-evil shit that Faith believes in.


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 415 by Thugpreacha, posted 11-25-2019 5:31 PM Thugpreacha has not yet responded

  
GDR
Member
Posts: 5052
From: Sidney, BC, Canada
Joined: 05-22-2005
Member Rating: 2.8


Message 417 of 472 (867481)
11-25-2019 6:29 PM
Reply to: Message 401 by ringo
11-25-2019 11:13 AM


Re: Trying To Explain To jar once again...
ringo writes:

I agree that the Christianity dilutes the secular humanism, so let's get rid of the Christianity entirely.

I certainly agree that there is a basic gulf in belief between the two. however, I don't agree that Christians and secular humanist can't have complete agreement on the social construct of our societies.

Both secular humanists and Christians can be found across the whole spectrum of political belief. In our own country we have the province that espouses secular humanism, (the BQ leader promoted the ides that the province is secular and gained the most seats), is the province that wants to limit immigration and bans religious symbols. In contrast it is churches across the country that have been most active in sponsoring refugee families both financially and with the help they need to settle here.

Edited by GDR, : typo


He has told you, O man, what is good ; And what does the LORD require of you But to do justice, to love kindness, And to walk humbly with your God.

Micah 6:8


This message is a reply to:
 Message 401 by ringo, posted 11-25-2019 11:13 AM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
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Theodoric
Member
Posts: 6883
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.3


Message 418 of 472 (867484)
11-25-2019 11:28 PM
Reply to: Message 415 by Thugpreacha
11-25-2019 5:31 PM


Re: Wrestling With ringos socialist agendas. .
Wrong. Maybe you should actually read about what it is before you say stupid shit. Just an idea.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 415 by Thugpreacha, posted 11-25-2019 5:31 PM Thugpreacha has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 419 by Thugpreacha, posted 11-26-2019 5:12 AM Theodoric has responded

  
Thugpreacha
Member
Posts: 13375
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 419 of 472 (867487)
11-26-2019 5:12 AM
Reply to: Message 418 by Theodoric
11-25-2019 11:28 PM


Re: Wrestling With ringos socialist agendas. .
But do you know human nature? Look at History. When great Empires collapse, they often implode and it takes more than socialism to keep the people safe. It often degrades into fearful leaders hiring armed thugs to protect them. Do you see that in America's possible future? Otherwise, any excess bounty we have will be picked clean by the vultures...sorta like what the US did to the Natives of many lands, only in reverse. I try not to act like an entitled European, nor do I advocate any sort of racial conflicts, but I honestly feel that there will be cultural wars and that those of us who grew up having it good will find life much more difficult. Thats a fear I have. Perhaps I am being irrational. A good Christian would accept their lot in life.

Edited by Thugpreacha, : No reason given.


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
~"We, humans, are engaged in an ongoing war of ideologies. I see it in this microcosm of EvC Forum just as I see it in the governments and attitudes of people throughout the world. Take your pick: Oppression or Seduction .
"~Thugpreacha

You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

“As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.”
? R.C. Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith


This message is a reply to:
 Message 418 by Theodoric, posted 11-25-2019 11:28 PM Theodoric has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 420 by jar, posted 11-26-2019 7:21 AM Thugpreacha has not yet responded
 Message 421 by Theodoric, posted 11-26-2019 8:29 AM Thugpreacha has not yet responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 31771
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 420 of 472 (867490)
11-26-2019 7:21 AM
Reply to: Message 419 by Thugpreacha
11-26-2019 5:12 AM


Re: Wrestling With ringos socialist agendas. .
Phat writes:

A good Christian would accept their lot in life.

An utterly stupid Christian would accept their lot in life. A good Christian would pull their ass out of the ditch even if it was on the Sabbath.


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 419 by Thugpreacha, posted 11-26-2019 5:12 AM Thugpreacha has not yet responded

  
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