Testing The Christian Apologists

Phat writes:A common pattern that I have observed from the Christians I associate with and believe the integrity of is that they studied and searched the scriptures a lot, studied other beliefs, and yet had one basic event in common:
They never threw any of it away
They felt a tug at their heart and soul...(which to you would be a red flag rather than an epiphany) and they finally surrendered to what they honestly felt to be a living Christ. A major change subsequently happened to them and all doubt was vanquished.You never understood the process (which may actually mean you were using full critical thinking skills) and never understood what it was that "tugged at your heart and soul" and what it meant for GOD to be alive, and what it meant that the character was not limited to the book. Thus you never allowed yourself to surrender and thus never felt any sort of epiphany.You seem to value sacred studies more than simply Jesus as the final answer. I respect though disagree with this only in that I believe Jesus is the final answer...its always good to study how the other folk believe.Add by edit: Perhaps what I describe as surrender is to you the sizzle without the steak. You likely believe that Christianity is a lifelong commitment to doing rather than a one time surrender. I appreciate your perspective, but I firmly believe in the initial surrender which is most definitely felt as a major change.
You and ringo and others may argue that this change is an illusion. An easy solution. A release from responsibility rather than a commitment. But I don't think it has to be that way. And I don't think people can truly commune with GOD, God, Jesus or the Holy Spirit without it. But to those who are content with critically valuing all religions as equally valid and plausible, (at the same time in the same cultural space) relativism supersedes absolute truth.

You are no longer believers.

Phat writes:You guys just want me to think--to use my mind.

Phat writes:But look at what it has done for you.

Phat writes:You are no longer believers.

Phat writes:Why would I want that?

Phat writes:You guys just want me to think--to use my mind.

But look at what it has done for you. You are no longer believers. Why would I want that?

You guys just want me to think--to use my mind. But look at what it has done for you. You are no longer believers. Why would I want that?

Faith writes:we don't stop thinking.

Faith writes:Phat often implies that thinking is at odds with belief and I'm saying it's not. Your opinion about what kind of thinking believers do isn't relevant.

But basically we acquire knowledge of God and other "things unseen" by believing the Biblical witnesses, and we grow in knowledge of all these things by studying them.

You have no knowledge of god and there is nothing to study except the works of man.

I'm talking about objective critical thinking.

Faith writes:Objective critical thinking.

You just get your head tied in knots when the ubject is omethijg beyond the senses but that's your own problem.

Faith writes:The amazing certainty with which you and others assert such emptyheaded irrational biases that have no evidence for them whatever is certainly impressive coming from someone who thinks he believes in scientific rational thought.