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Author Topic:   Why hasn't the FBI taken the 24 Republican Congressmen into custody?
Faith
Member
Posts: 33651
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 76 of 123 (865661)
10-28-2019 7:39 PM
Reply to: Message 75 by jar
10-28-2019 7:36 PM


Re: It really is simple Faith. Simpler than you think, jar
Well, that was predictable.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 75 by jar, posted 10-28-2019 7:36 PM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 77 by jar, posted 10-28-2019 7:41 PM Faith has not yet responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 31611
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 77 of 123 (865663)
10-28-2019 7:41 PM
Reply to: Message 76 by Faith
10-28-2019 7:39 PM


Re: It really is simple Faith. Simpler than you think, jar
Faith writes:

Well, that was predictable.

Correct, their behavior was totally predictable.


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 76 by Faith, posted 10-28-2019 7:39 PM Faith has not yet responded

  
DrJones*
Member
Posts: 1984
From: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Joined: 08-19-2004
Member Rating: 4.3


(1)
Message 78 of 123 (865665)
10-28-2019 7:47 PM
Reply to: Message 72 by Faith
10-28-2019 7:11 PM


Re: It really is simple Faith. Simpler than you think, jar
and those congressmen were incapable of asking the other republicans on the committees what was going on? You do know that the Democrats aren't the only ones on the committees right?

It's not enough to bash in heads, you've got to bash in minds
soon I discovered that this rock thing was true
Jerry Lee Lewis was the devil
Jesus was an architect previous to his career as a prophet
All of a sudden i found myself in love with the world
And so there was only one thing I could do
Was ding a ding dang my dang along ling long - Jesus Built my Hotrod Ministry
Live every week like it's Shark Week! - Tracey Jordan
Just a monkey in a long line of kings. - Matthew Good
If "elitist" just means "not the dumbest motherfucker in the room", I'll be an elitist! - Get Your War On
*not an actual doctor

This message is a reply to:
 Message 72 by Faith, posted 10-28-2019 7:11 PM Faith has not yet responded

  
dwise1
Member
Posts: 3839
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 3.1


(1)
Message 79 of 123 (865668)
10-28-2019 9:06 PM
Reply to: Message 50 by Faith
10-27-2019 5:16 AM


Re: It really is simple Faith. Simpler than you think, jar
Oh but we are assured day in and ady out that they've got the goods on Trump coming and going. That's been the endless chant for three years. Percy gives such lists and dwise just put one up on another thread. See my reference to it in Message 3211 on the Right Side of the News thread. There's nothing there, PK, you are all falling for propaganda, smoke and mirrors, or maybe you're not falling for it, you're in on it.

Yet again you are deliberately lyeing! In that "reply" you never replied to what I had written, which was an attempt to explain to you the difference between impeachable offenses and actual crimes. From my Message 3210, here it is again:

DWise1 writes:

Never, because he's committed nothing that rises to unethical or criminal behavior, it's all invented by the Left just because you don't like his personality.

Again, completely and utterly false. However, it is obvious that you are completely lost in any questions about Trump's vast wrongdoings and what they will mean for him.

They break down into impeachable offenses, violations of the law, and crimes against humanity:


  1. Impeachable offenses.

    Most of these are collectively referred to as "high crimes and misdemeanors" (follow the link for more information). This is an old English legal term which basically describes a public official not performing his duties and betraying the public trust that he had been given such that he should be removed from office (impeachment -- our system makes removal a second step of the process). As that link lists possible high crimes and misdemeanors:
    quote:
    The charge of high crimes and misdemeanors covers allegations of misconduct by officials, such as dishonesty, negligence, perjury of oath, abuse of authority, bribery, intimidation, misuse of public funds or assets, failure to supervise, dereliction of duty, unbecoming conduct, refusal to obey a lawful order, chronic intoxication, or tax evasion. Offenses by officials also include ordinary crimes, but perhaps with different standards of proof and punishment than for non-officials, on the grounds that more is expected of officials by their oaths of office. Indeed the offense may not even be a breach of criminal statute. See Harvard Law Review "The majority view is that a president can legally be impeached for 'intentional, evil deeds' that 'drastically subvert the Constitution and involve an unforgivable abuse of the presidency' — even if those deeds didn’t violate any criminal laws."

    In addition to that, Article Two Section 4:Impeachment says:
    quote:
    The President, Vice President and all civil Officers of the United States, shall be removed from Office on Impeachment for, and Conviction of, Treason, Bribery, or other high Crimes and Misdemeanors.

    Obviously, the emoluments clauses would go under high crimes and misdemeanors:
    Article Two, Section 1, Clause 7:Salary

    quote:
    The President shall, at stated Times, receive for his Services, a Compensation, which shall neither be increased nor diminished during the Period for which he shall have been elected, and he shall not receive within that Period any other Emolument from the United States, or any of them.

    Meaning that the president's salary is set at a constant and the president may not receive other compensation from either the federal or any state government.
    And Article One, Section 9, Clause 8:Titles of nobility
    quote:
    No Title of Nobility shall be granted by the United States: And no Person holding any Office of Profit or Trust under them, shall, without the Consent of the Congress, accept of any present, Emolument, Office, or Title, of any kind whatever, from any King, Prince, or foreign State.

    Obviously, Trump's profiting off of his golf trips would be covered under the domestic emoluments clause. Trump receiving profits from foreign dignitaries staying in his hotels could be considered foreign emoluments, especially when a foreign power reserves large blocks of rooms for extended periods of time, though that might also be covered under bribery.

    Part of the point is that trying to quibble over whether an action violates any particular law is completely moot here. Of course, violation of an actual law is an added plus, but is not required.

    Note also that an impeachment is not a judicial proceeding, but rather a political remedy to a political problem of an official violating his duties and oath of office. The only result of an impeachment and conviction is removal from office and that stain on that official's record. No imprisonment nor fines nor any such consequences. Though in the President's case, his removal will also remove that artificial OLC memo's protection against indictments, leaving him open to further prosecution in actual judicial proceedings, which is what Trump is so desperately trying to prevent (basically, his primary reason to attain reelection, saving his own rancid skin).

    On a side note, collusion with Russia may have no legal definition as a crime (the given reason for Mueller to never even consider it), but it is still very much an impeachable offense. And the Mueller Report shows massive collusion between Russia and the Trump campaign (in which, like in every other Trump operation, nothing happens without Trump's approval or knowledge).

  2. Violations of the law.

    These are very serious indeed. But we have in place on the federal level those ill-advised OLC memos that a sitting president could not be indicted for a crime. Granted, they were written in a naïve environment when we assumed that the president would act in a civilized manner and comport to the Rule of Law. Unfortunately, they never anticipated such a lawless executive as Donald Trump and thus were unprepared for the rampant lawlessness of his administration.

    Now, once a sitting president has been removed from office, he will still be liable to facing indictments for whatever laws he had violated.

    Now, these are the crimes for which an ex-president can be duly indicted, prosecuted, convicted, and punished for.

  3. Crimes against humanity.

    Concentration camps on our borders. Children of all ages separated from their families with absolutely no plan in place for bringing them back together. Abysmal conditions in those concentration camps while prisons-for-profit companies make a killing -- at over $700 a day, what does it really cost for the most basic personal care?

    Becoming party to the ethnic cleansing against our ally, the Kurds.

    These crimes against humanity will need to wind their way into the international courts. Nothing may ever come of it, but it very richly should!



Think maybe you should try to actually reply instead of the typical Trumpist BS of deflect and divert?

As to the question of actual offenses that Trump has committed, I offered you a short list a couple times, such as in Message 3205 (second iteration):

DWise1 writes:

Never, because he's committed nothing that rises to unethical or criminal behavior, ...

A complete and utter bullshit liie! Like you always liie!

As I enumerated in Message 3073, to which all you did was to deny the truth!:

DWise1 writes:

Faithless writes:

Trump has committed no crimes.


Completely false!

Without having to think hard:

  • Violation of campaign finance laws surrounding his payoffs to Stormy Daniels and that dumb bunny for which Michael Cohen is in prison and for which Trump has been named an "unindicted co-conspirator". There is undoubtedly a sealed indictment waiting with Trump's name on it.

  • Innumerable counts of obstruction of justice.

  • Tax fraud and insurance fraud.

  • Violating election finance laws by soliciting a foreign government for things of value. Specifically, that's that Ukraine phone call in which the White House admits that Trump did it. Please note that this is separate from any quid pro quo questions. In his interview with Stephanopoulos, Trump stated that he would listen to any dirt that a foreign government had on his opponent, which would also violate that federal law, so he has displayed a willingness to violate the law.

  • Ordering his minions to openly violate federal law; eg:
    • Block the release of Trump's income tax returns to the appropriate congressional committees as explicitly required by law.

    • Refuse to honor congressional subpoenas.

    • Pressure their subordinates into refusing to honor congressional subpoenas.

  • Issuing a false weather warning. This is a direct violation of federal law punishable by imprisonment.

  • Falsifying an official weather map. AKA "SharpieGate". This is a direct violation of the same federal law that forbids issuing a false weather warning.

  • Innumerable instances of corruption, including:
    • Pocketing campaign contributions by running campaign offices in Trump-owned properties serviced and catered by Trump-owned businesses. Including Trump-owned properties that were never ever occupied by campaign workers but were paid for nonetheless.

      Interesting to note is that Trump filed for re-election as soon as was possible, just so he could keep that cash cow going for as long as possible.

    • Accepting massive donations for his inauguration, including a ball at Trump International organized by Ivanka and for which she was over-charged (ie, what kind of discount does the owner of the hotel get? He gets over-charged, meaning even more donated money flows into his pocket).

      Trump's inaugural fund was very much larger than Obama's, spent far far less, and has left tens of millions of dollars unaccounted for. (we need an update on this one, but it is being investigated)

    • Every single time Trump takes a golfing vacation to one of his resorts (I do not know of him ever going anywhere else) he brings in a lot of government money, the profits of which go directly to his own pockets. Every single time he goes golfing, his entire party including him, his staff, security and support troops, and whatever guests need to be housed and fed, all of which is paid to Trump's own resort and hence to Trump himself (minus expenses). Of course, that does not include greens fees and cart rentals and whatever else a golf course charges (I'm not a golfer). What kind of discount does the owner and his party receive? Well, judging from the Inaugural Ball, they must get overcharged, resulting in even more profit for Trump.

      Please remember how apoplectic conservatives would get over Obama's golf trips. Also remember how campaign Trump strongly criticized Obama for going golfing and swore that he wouldn't have any time for golfing. Well, in just two years Trump far exceeded Obama in time spent golfing. Furthermore, Obama went golfing at local military bases for the cost of a motorcade and derived no monetary profit from it, while Trump only goes to his own resorts at far greater transportation costs as well as exorbitant expenses while there which flow into Trump's own pockets. Last I heard a couple months ago, Trump's golf trips have cost the US government more than $100 million. Well, hypocrite, where is your fucking outrage at that?

    • Every guest at Trump's International Hotel in DC is putting money into Trump's pockets. Early in the Trump Administration, there was a bill before Congress that Saudi Arabia opposed, so they basically bribed Trump to the tune of about $725,000. They bought a block of rooms at the International Hotel and invited US veterans to come and stay there and dine there at no personal cost to themselves so that they could speak out against this bill.

      Trump's Doral hotel is wholly owned by him and cannot make a profit, always operating in the red. So a large Saudi party stayed at the hotel and the hotel proudly announced having operated in the black that one quarter. Why would the Saudis go there instead of to Puerto Banús? To grease Trump's palm, of course.

    • Trump's choice of his own property, Doral, for the G-7 meeting (formerly the G-8 before Russia was kicked out over their invasion of the Ukrain, apparently soon to be the G-6 after the USA gets kicked out over Trump). After overwhelming push-back over that blatantly corrupt choice, Trump backed down.

      Consider, though, what Trump was trying to line up there:

      • The conference would take place off-season, when the hotel would be operating at its greatest loss due to so many vacancies (who wants to golf in southern-most Florida in the summer?). Having such a massive number of bookings during such a slump would change a huge loss into a much smaller loss, even when pricing accommodations "at cost". IOW, the false claim of "no profits being made here" rings very hollow indeed.

      • The resort is not in the best of repair. For example, there are only two presidential suites, so what are the other five heads of state supposed to do, bunk together? Obviously there would be a need to upgrade the accommodations. Who would foot that bill? The US government, AKA "us". Then after the G-7 meeting, Doral would have been greatly upgraded at government expense, but only because the owner, Trump, had chosen it.

      • There will be expanded need for helipads. For that matter, by scanning the grounds on Google Earth I see no evidence of any helipads. Where would those helipads be placed? Obviously, on the golf greens.

        So after the conference is over, what will happen to those helipads? They will have to go away and the golf greens would need to be restored. Word I hear is that the grounds are in need of refurbishing, which can cost upwards of $10 million. So in the "restoration" of the greens when the helipads are removed, the entire golf course would get a complete refurbishment at US government expense.

        You worry so much about newly arrived immigrants needing basic support and here's Trump literally taking multiple millions of dollars away from you for his own personal gain.


  • Questions of national security (many of which could be considered treasonous in the general sense (the legal definition is much stickier)), many of which are under counter-intelligence investigation.

Of course, there are also questions about the sources of Trump's income flows. If they turn out to be Russian, then that could help to explain why with Trump all roads lead to Putin.

As a brief aside, let us review the espionage methods for recruiting assets: MICE -- Money, Ideology, Compromise/Coercion, Ego/Extortion. In my 35 years in the US military, I have received standard counter-intelligence training many times. One theme that kept cropping up was that most Americans who sell out their country do so for money; that makes Americans just about the easiest ones to turn just by throwing enough money at them.

Of course, Trump is all about the money. And anything that fluffs his ego (reference to porn film fluffers) will definitely have his attention -- eg, reference the at least twice daily "fluffer briefings" especially prepared for Trump to show him all the positive press supporting him. And of course Trump has no ideology.

But then there's the matter of compromise. Just coming in the first day, Trump was compromised by Russia. All during his campaign, Trump was supposed to have no financial ties with Russia. Yet all that time, he was still negotiating his Moscow Trump tower with the necessary powers, including Putin. He lied to the people and to the government about having financial ties to Russia. Russia knew that he was lying. Trump knew that Russia knew that he was lying. Putin is KGB ("Committee of Public Safety", if you read the actual Russian which I used to be able to do after a fashion). The KGB knows MICE very well indeed and are artists in its use. Putin knows what compromise is and how to exploit it.

Even just with that one "Moscow Tower" lie, Trump was compromised from the very beginning.

There still remain far too many questions about Trump's income stream, all of which must still be investigated. Yet Trump insists on preventing all such investigation. So what is he trying to cover up?

 
So, Faith. Do you really think that Trump has committed no crimes? Then what are your answers to every single point I raised?

You can start by explaining the emoluments issues raised by his use of golf trips to funnel government money into his own pocket. Or by his trying to use his Doral resort to host next year's G-7 meeting. Please explain to us how that does not enrich him at government expense, which is disallowed by the US Constitution. Or how foreign governments have been funneling through Trump's hotels what basically amount to bribes (eg, Saudis paying $725,000 for a block of rooms in his International Hotel in order to recruit unknowing veterans to lobby against a bill).

IOW, for once in your life try to pretend that you are one of the "normal thinking people" and actually think about what Trump's doing.

You know, when the impeachment hearings go public in mid-November, it's going to be harder and harder for you to ignore reality.

You had absolutely nothing to say about those except to falsely claim that they don't exist. Yet they do exist.

So then I took just one single offense, Trump's profiteering from his golf trips in direct violation and domestic emoluments and all kinds of corruption laws, and I directly requested that you explain to us why those are "lying crap". From Message 3207:

DWise1 writes:

I leave it to those from whom I get most of my opinions these days to answer all that lying crap.

The typical response of a **** caught in her lyes.

What specific items in my list are you calling "lying crap"? Point them out! Explain to us why they are "lying crap"!

Of course, you never will, because you have just been caught yet again in yet another liee.

Let's take the emoluments issue I raised of Trump's incessant golf trips:


Trump goes golfing extremely frequently. In just two years, his time golfing far exceeded what Obama had put in in his entire eight years in office. Are you calling that "lying crap"? Please explain why.

Trump goes to his own golf resorts each time. He has many options, including the one that Obama frequently used (the golf course on a nearby military base, which already had some security and which saved in travel costs by only requiring a motorcade) or to any golf resort in which he does not own any financial interest in (thus removing any appearance of conflict of interest). But instead he always goes to his own golf resorts. In doing so, he is directing government expeditures to his own business. Are you calling that "lying crap"? Please explain why.

Golf courses and resorts charge you money to play there. There are also charges to rent various things, such as golf carts. Note that not only would Trump and those he's playing with would require carts, but Trump security and support retinue would also need carts. Are you calling that "lying crap"? Please explain why.

Hotels and restaurants are present at golf resorts. Trump's golf resorts also have them. Are you calling that "lying crap"? Please explain why.

Hotels charge you to stay in one of their rooms, along with whatever other expenses you rack up by staying there (eg, movie rentals, room service, mini-bar). Are you calling that "lying crap"? Please explain why.

Restaurants and bars charge you for food and drink. Are you calling that "lying crap"? Please explain why.

While at Trump's golf resorts, Trump and his entire party (including support and security) need rooms to stay in and they also need to eat and drink. They will be charged for those services. Are you calling that "lying crap"? Please explain why.

The government pays the tab for all that. That is to say that we taxpayers are paying the tab for all that. Are you calling that "lying crap"? Please explain why.

Trump owns those golf resorts -- even though the actual legalistic chain of ownership might be through Trump companies, he is ultimately the owner. Are you calling that "lying crap"? Please explain why.

Profits from those golf resorts get distributed however, but ultimately Trump receives a profit from those golf resort profits. Are you calling that "lying crap"? Please explain why.

Trump's decision to go only to his own golf resorts is what results in government (ie, taxpayer) money to be paid to those golf resorts. He could (and should!) choose to go elsewhere in order to avoid the appearance of conflict of interest and self-dealing, but he does not. Are you calling that "lying crap"? Please explain why.

Because Trump is profiting from government expenditures based solely on his decision to direct business to his own businesses, he is in clear and blatant violation of the Domestic Emoluments Clause of the Constitution of the United States of America:

quote:
Article Two, Section 1, Clause 7: Salary:
The President shall, at stated Times, receive for his Services, a Compensation, which shall neither be increased nor diminished during the Period for which he shall have been elected, and he shall not receive within that Period any other Emolument from the United States, or any of them.

The president's salary, currently $400,000 a year, must remain constant throughout the president's term -- though independently wealth presidents (eg, JFK) can and have waived that salary. The president may not receive other compensation from either the federal or any state government. Are you calling that "lying crap"? Please explain why.

Now, any normal thinking person would have gone through the same line of reasoning to arrive at the conclusion that Trump is profiting from his golf trips and that that is not acceptable -- since I'm having to explain it to you, I had to really dumb it down and state so many obvious things that anyone familiar with the real world would know (eg, that hotels and restaurants charge for their services).

But not you, since you are incapable of thinking. Not only that, but you run away terrified of any challenge to get you to think or even to support any of your crazed delusions.

I know full well that you will not even attempt to explain why any of that is "lying crap". Instead, you will run away terrified of reality and the truth as always.

And indeed, what you did was to run away terrified of reality and the truth as always. You never did reply to that message.

 
So why is it that you can never reply to actual issues but must always resort to flat-out lyeing?

Edited by dwise1, : Had forgotten to copy the text "lying crap" to the intro of that last section. Sorry.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 50 by Faith, posted 10-27-2019 5:16 AM Faith has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 80 by dwise1, posted 10-29-2019 1:33 AM dwise1 has not yet responded

  
dwise1
Member
Posts: 3839
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 3.1


(1)
Message 80 of 123 (865669)
10-29-2019 1:33 AM
Reply to: Message 79 by dwise1
10-28-2019 9:06 PM


Re: It really is simple Faith. Simpler than you think, jar
I guess that I should mention this as well, for us to better understand the impeachment.

From Day One and before, Trump has been abusing his office in plain site day after day after day. Not only has Trump demonstrated practically every day how unsuited to his office he is, but he has also repeatedly demonstrated the truth of Rep. Pelosi's remark to him: (quoted from memory) "With you all paths lead to Putin."

In short, we suffer from an embarrassment of abundance of evidence against Trump. So much that the sheer volume would overwhelm the minds of the public, which leads the Democrats to a kind of dilemma.

Key to a successful impeachment is public opinion. Much of Trump has been doing is as massive yet slow encroachments (analogies include boiling a frog slowly such that he never notices, and the Nazi encroachments on freedoms step by step never crossing a perceptible line that might trigger alarm). To get public notice and hold the public attention you need something big, like Trump's Ukrainian phone call. But putting all your eggs into that one basket, especially considering your overabundance of eggs, could be dangerous.

The public needs one or a few singular offenses to concentrate on. But at the same time there are so many other impeachable offenses. Include too many and you might lose the public as they get confused, but include too few and you might miss the chance of actually getting him convicted (remember, they only need convict him on one article of impeachment). That is the main debate among the Democrats, which might become more visible when the actual impeachment hearings begin starting around mid-November.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 79 by dwise1, posted 10-28-2019 9:06 PM dwise1 has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 81 by Faith, posted 10-29-2019 2:29 AM dwise1 has responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 33651
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 81 of 123 (865673)
10-29-2019 2:29 AM
Reply to: Message 80 by dwise1
10-29-2019 1:33 AM


Re: It really is simple Faith. Simpler than you think, jar
Trump has done nothing, and on the phone call to the Ukraine he committee no offense whatever. If he had done even one thing he is accused of he would have long since been impeached. It's all a huge hallucination on the part of the Left.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 80 by dwise1, posted 10-29-2019 1:33 AM dwise1 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 82 by dwise1, posted 10-29-2019 3:02 AM Faith has not yet responded
 Message 83 by Taq, posted 10-29-2019 3:20 PM Faith has responded

  
dwise1
Member
Posts: 3839
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 3.1


(1)
Message 82 of 123 (865676)
10-29-2019 3:02 AM
Reply to: Message 81 by Faith
10-29-2019 2:29 AM


Re: It really is simple Faith. Simpler than you think, jar
Trump has done nothing, and on the phone call to the Ukraine he committee no offense whatever.

Oh, Trump has been very busy. And that business with the Ukraine is not just one phone call, but rather months of maneuvering, applying pressure since before Zelensky entered office, eliminating career diplomats who knew how things actually work and hence would spot the "drug deal" being hatched by Giuliani and the Three Amigos. And then there's Frik and Frak AKA "Lev and Igor". Rudy, Lev, and Igor have had a lot of contact and contacts with Trump for about half a decade, which might suggest that Trump could have some interest in their schemes. There's even a picture of Lev and Igor and Don Jr. and this guy who's the head of a pro-Trump campaign PAC, America First, into which Lev and/or Igor had donated money from a Russian oligarch they work for, possibly Dmytro Firtash (Ukrainian oligarch hiding out in Vienna fighting extradition with an army of lawyers ... and the author of the ******* conspiracy theories that Giuliani waves around and that Trump is forcing Zelensky to investigate.

Tell us truthfully, has the Fake News Network ever made any mention of Lev and Igor? Or of the "shadow Ukraine diplomacy" run by Giuliani and the Three Amigos (Gordon Sondland, Kurt Volker, Rick Perry) to seize control of the major Ukrainian gas and oil company?

I didn't think so.

You might want to start studying up on reality now. So that it won't be as massive of a shock when reality bites you.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 81 by Faith, posted 10-29-2019 2:29 AM Faith has not yet responded

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 8159
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 4.2


(1)
Message 83 of 123 (865701)
10-29-2019 3:20 PM
Reply to: Message 81 by Faith
10-29-2019 2:29 AM


Re: It really is simple Faith. Simpler than you think, jar
Faith writes:

Trump has done nothing,

Really?

quote:
In a 15-page opening statement, obtained by The Washington Post, Taylor repeatedly expressed his shock and bewilderment as he watched U.S. policy toward Ukraine get overtaken by Trump’s demand that newly elected president Volodymyr Zelensky “go to a microphone and say he is opening investigations of [Democratic presidential candidate Joe] Biden and 2016 election interference.”

“ ‘Everything’ was dependent on such an announcement, including security assistance,” Taylor said he was told by Gordon Sondland, U.S. ambassador to the European Union.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/...f0-4cc99f74d127_story.html


There has already been one State Department official who has sworn under oath that there was a quid pro quo of aid and support for an announcement of investigations against Biden.

If he had done even one thing he is accused of he would have long since been impeached.

How fast do you think this should go? It hasn't even been two months.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 81 by Faith, posted 10-29-2019 2:29 AM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 84 by Faith, posted 10-29-2019 3:23 PM Taq has responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 33651
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 84 of 123 (865702)
10-29-2019 3:23 PM
Reply to: Message 83 by Taq
10-29-2019 3:20 PM


Re: It really is simple Faith. Simpler than you think, jar
Taylor is a leftist anti Trump schemer who was involved with Soros and Hunter Biden in somethin I didn't hear very clearly on Limbaugh this morning, as I just reported on the other thread in answer to you. All this is more leftist shenanigans all a charade -- "shock and bewilderment" indeed -- to sound like Trump did something wrong when all the wrongdoing is on the left. According to many I've heard over the last few days, Ratcliffe shredded Taylor's "testimony" in that closed-door meeting but Schiff won't release the transcript.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 83 by Taq, posted 10-29-2019 3:20 PM Taq has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 85 by Taq, posted 10-29-2019 3:25 PM Faith has responded
 Message 87 by DrJones*, posted 10-29-2019 3:51 PM Faith has not yet responded
 Message 111 by Capt Stormfield, posted 11-01-2019 1:21 AM Faith has not yet responded

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 8159
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 4.2


(1)
Message 85 of 123 (865705)
10-29-2019 3:25 PM
Reply to: Message 84 by Faith
10-29-2019 3:23 PM


Re: It really is simple Faith. Simpler than you think, jar
Faith writes:

Taylor is a leftist anti Trump schemer who was involved with Soros and Hunter Biden in somethin I didn't hear very clearly on Limbaugh this morning, as I just reported on the other thread in answer to you.

Lol. This is what we mean by Republicans being unable to address the facts. Smearing the witness does not make the facts go away.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 84 by Faith, posted 10-29-2019 3:23 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 86 by Faith, posted 10-29-2019 3:27 PM Taq has responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 33651
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 86 of 123 (865706)
10-29-2019 3:27 PM
Reply to: Message 85 by Taq
10-29-2019 3:25 PM


Re: It really is simple Faith. Simpler than you think, jar
Don't confuse "Republicans" with me please, I don't claim to get it all straight, I'm just trying to put up what little I'm able to catch. I'm sure Ratcliffe dealt with the facts but we don't have the transcript of that cross examination thanks to the liar Schiff.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 85 by Taq, posted 10-29-2019 3:25 PM Taq has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 88 by Taq, posted 10-29-2019 5:29 PM Faith has responded

  
DrJones*
Member
Posts: 1984
From: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Joined: 08-19-2004
Member Rating: 4.3


(4)
Message 87 of 123 (865711)
10-29-2019 3:51 PM
Reply to: Message 84 by Faith
10-29-2019 3:23 PM


Re: It really is simple Faith. Simpler than you think, jar
Taylor is a leftist anti Trump schemer who was involved with Soros and Hunter Biden

boy think how stupid the person who hired him must be.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 84 by Faith, posted 10-29-2019 3:23 PM Faith has not yet responded

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 8159
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 4.2


Message 88 of 123 (865722)
10-29-2019 5:29 PM
Reply to: Message 86 by Faith
10-29-2019 3:27 PM


Re: It really is simple Faith. Simpler than you think, jar
Faith writes:

I'm sure Ratcliffe dealt with the facts but we don't have the transcript of that cross examination thanks to the liar Schiff.

The real question is if you will give Trump a pass even if all of these charges are corroborated. Do you think a president should be removed from office if they use tax payer dollars to get personal benefits from a foreign power? If Hillary had withheld aid from Ukraine to get dirt on Republican opponents, would you be calling for her to be removed from office?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 86 by Faith, posted 10-29-2019 3:27 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 89 by Faith, posted 10-30-2019 5:41 AM Taq has responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 33651
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 89 of 123 (865745)
10-30-2019 5:41 AM
Reply to: Message 88 by Taq
10-29-2019 5:29 PM


All the accusations of Trump are nothing but wishful thinking
Faith writes:

I'm sure Ratcliffe dealt with the facts but we don't have the transcript of that cross examination thanks to the liar Schiff.

The real question is if you will give Trump a pass even if all of these charges are corroborated.

Nothing the Left has been putting its hopes on has panned out. The Mueller Report came up with nothing so now they are looking for anything at all they can turn into an impeachable offense. Oh they may succeed, I don't know, but so far Trump appears to be innocent of everything they throw at him. Much to their chagrin.

Do you think a president should be removed from office if they use tax payer dollars to get personal benefits from a foreign power?

He didn't. It was not Trump but Joe Biden who used taxpayer money to get personal benefits from a foreign power. and yes of course I find this reprehensible. This is contested so fine, let the truth come out about Biden and everybody.

But Trump did no such thing. There was no quid pro quo at all, period, but the only hint that there might have been is not in relation to getting information about Biden, which idea is utterly ridiculous anyway since Biden was not his opponent for the next election and is not likely to be, but about the investigation into the 2016 election, which was underway through Barr and Durham and Horowitz, and may they soon get out their findings. It is perfectly accept able common practice to withhold aid for help in such an investigation, in which it is known that the foreign power was involved, but the fact is that aid was not withheld as the Ukrainian leader himself said, and we know the aid was received.

If Hillary had withheld aid from Ukraine to get dirt on Republican opponents, would you be calling for her to be removed from office?

She did worse. She paid for a lying dossier of dirt on Trump that came from Russia though it was a Brit who sold it to her. Ukraine supported her in the election against Trump and according to Politico (see Message 3099 on the Right Side of the News thread) it had an effect on the election too.

I'm defending Trump because I know he's innocent and that he's been the target of a witch hunt by the Democrats since before he got into office. They've found nothing, they've invented reams of accusations but found nothing that deserves impeachment or criminal charges. You call make lists and lists of his supposed crimes and misdemeanors but none of them even comes close to the list of actual felonies Starr came up with against Clinton. It's all wishful thinking. You are asking me what I think of made-up allegations that have no legal standing at all. Maybe they will eventually but they don't now, they are all the wishful thinking of the Democrats who hate Trump and are still smarting from Hillary's loss of the election to him.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 88 by Taq, posted 10-29-2019 5:29 PM Taq has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 90 by Theodoric, posted 10-30-2019 8:21 AM Faith has not yet responded
 Message 91 by Taq, posted 10-30-2019 11:37 AM Faith has responded
 Message 92 by dwise1, posted 10-30-2019 12:59 PM Faith has responded
 Message 93 by Hyroglyphx, posted 10-30-2019 1:47 PM Faith has responded
 Message 99 by RAZD, posted 10-30-2019 2:58 PM Faith has not yet responded

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 6799
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.3


Message 90 of 123 (865747)
10-30-2019 8:21 AM
Reply to: Message 89 by Faith
10-30-2019 5:41 AM


Re: All the accusations of Trump are nothing but wishful thinking
**** and ********. No evidence, no actual argument. Typical Faith. **** and ********, nothing more.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 89 by Faith, posted 10-30-2019 5:41 AM Faith has not yet responded

  
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