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Author Topic:   Dominant Force in West Today According to Dennis Prager is Fear of Left
ringo
Member
Posts: 18134
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 47 of 308 (866454)
11-11-2019 3:07 PM
Reply to: Message 40 by Phat
11-11-2019 10:16 AM


Re: The Populist Mindset
Phat writes:

many of us resent being placed as just another one of many belief systems.


Boo hoo. That's exactly what Christianity is. And it's far from the most plausible one.

Phat writes:

We believe that our way is the truth.


You're wrong.

Even your own Book doesn't support many of your dogmas.

Phat writes:

You see it all as a myth because you fall for the mythicists position.


I personally have never read a word by any "mythicist". I see it as a myth because it walks like a myth and quacks like a myth.

"If you can keep your head when all about you
Are losing theirs and blaming it on you...."
-- Rudyard Kipling

This message is a reply to:
 Message 40 by Phat, posted 11-11-2019 10:16 AM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 48 by Phat, posted 11-11-2019 3:46 PM ringo has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 18134
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 49 of 308 (866462)
11-11-2019 3:56 PM
Reply to: Message 48 by Phat
11-11-2019 3:46 PM


Re: The Populist Mindset
Phat writes:

Long John Silver is a myth. Why don't you ever use quotes from that book?


If it was the basis of somebody's religion, I would.

Phat writes:

Secular Humanism is too threatening to many of us.


Why? Where's the threat in doing what Jesus told you to do? Is it the Straight and Narrow that you're afraid of?

"If you can keep your head when all about you
Are losing theirs and blaming it on you...."
-- Rudyard Kipling

This message is a reply to:
 Message 48 by Phat, posted 11-11-2019 3:46 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 18134
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.3


(1)
Message 56 of 308 (866500)
11-12-2019 10:48 AM
Reply to: Message 50 by Hyroglyphx
11-12-2019 2:10 AM


Re: Promoting Cautiously. Topic Will Be Moderated.
Hyroglyphx writes:

You're an outsider, as am I.


We're all outsiders. The people who argue against you and Faith argue much more vociferously against each other.

You don't lose debates because you're victims. You lose debates because your positions are weak.


"If you can keep your head when all about you
Are losing theirs and blaming it on you...."
-- Rudyard Kipling

This message is a reply to:
 Message 50 by Hyroglyphx, posted 11-12-2019 2:10 AM Hyroglyphx has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 57 by Faith, posted 11-12-2019 11:14 AM ringo has responded
 Message 61 by Hyroglyphx, posted 11-12-2019 11:32 AM ringo has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 18134
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.3


(1)
Message 59 of 308 (866508)
11-12-2019 11:26 AM
Reply to: Message 57 by Faith
11-12-2019 11:14 AM


Re: Promoting Cautiously. Topic Will Be Moderated.
Faith writes:

Or course you're right, we couldn't be right, oh no, that's the EvC ***** ****. Of course you're right.


I think you missed my point.

I recently had a long, drawn-out disagreement with Stile about "knowing' God doesn't exist. A little farther back I had a long, drawn-out disagreement with Percy about how scientists would react to a "miracle". And even farther back, I had a long, drawn-out disagreement with a whole swarm of EvC members about transgender issues. Those are just a few examples that spring to mind.

The fact is that I am challenged much more by people who are supposedly "on my side" than I am by you. With you, I know that you will eventually start spewing insults and jumping up and down on your Caps Lock key and then you will run away.

Even if you have something substantial to say (and I have cheered you a few times), you ruin your own argument by being an asshole.

Edited by ringo, : Added quote.


"If you can keep your head when all about you
Are losing theirs and blaming it on you...."
-- Rudyard Kipling

This message is a reply to:
 Message 57 by Faith, posted 11-12-2019 11:14 AM Faith has not yet responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 18134
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 63 of 308 (866512)
11-12-2019 11:39 AM
Reply to: Message 61 by Hyroglyphx
11-12-2019 11:32 AM


Re: Promoting Cautiously. Topic Will Be Moderated.
Hyroglyphx writes:

No, you are definitely an insider --


Check out my reply to Faith in Message 59.

Hyroglyphx writes:

You constantly offer what is basically tantamount one-liners.


Seventeen thousand one-liners add up. If you're confused about the depth of my position on any issue, feel free to read my posts. We'll wait.

Hroglyphx writes:

Don't confuse popularity with the rightness of a position.


Don't confuse "rightness" of a position with strength of a position. Consensus is not just popularity.

"If you can keep your head when all about you
Are losing theirs and blaming it on you...."
-- Rudyard Kipling

This message is a reply to:
 Message 61 by Hyroglyphx, posted 11-12-2019 11:32 AM Hyroglyphx has not yet responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 18134
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 73 of 308 (866524)
11-12-2019 12:07 PM
Reply to: Message 71 by Faith
11-12-2019 12:03 PM


Re: Promoting Cautiously. Topic Will Be Moderated.
Faith writes:

I know you **** Trump, I know the ways you disagree with me, I wonder why nobody else does.


Maybe because you define "hate" as pointing out his lies.

"If you can keep your head when all about you
Are losing theirs and blaming it on you...."
-- Rudyard Kipling

This message is a reply to:
 Message 71 by Faith, posted 11-12-2019 12:03 PM Faith has not yet responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 18134
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 106 of 308 (866670)
11-14-2019 10:59 AM
Reply to: Message 97 by Phat
11-13-2019 7:02 PM


Re: Leftist ideology and economics
Phat writes:

ringo always tells me that ganging up on the rich won't work and that Jesus commands us to give to the least of these no matter what...


I wouldn't call it a "command". It's just what you must do to be saved.

Phat writes:

Which then leaves us with a few very wealthy people and everyone else lumped in one group. Which I disagree with.


That's pretty much what the situation was when Jesus was around. The "middle class" is a relatively modern invention.

"If you can keep your head when all about you
Are losing theirs and blaming it on you...."
-- Rudyard Kipling

This message is a reply to:
 Message 97 by Phat, posted 11-13-2019 7:02 PM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 108 by Phat, posted 11-14-2019 11:43 AM ringo has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 18134
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.3


(1)
Message 107 of 308 (866671)
11-14-2019 11:02 AM
Reply to: Message 104 by Faith
11-14-2019 9:03 AM


Re: Leftist ideology and economics
Faith writes:

Very simple solution: Don't read my postsw.


That's not a solution. The problem is not that we don't want to hear what you say. The problem is that what you say is wrong and needs to be corrected.

"If you can keep your head when all about you
Are losing theirs and blaming it on you...."
-- Rudyard Kipling

This message is a reply to:
 Message 104 by Faith, posted 11-14-2019 9:03 AM Faith has not yet responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 18134
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.3


(1)
Message 109 of 308 (866674)
11-14-2019 11:59 AM
Reply to: Message 108 by Phat
11-14-2019 11:43 AM


Re: Leftist ideology and economics
Phat writes:

Think about it. If everyone in America gave "all that they had" their kids would be unable to attend college....


You think about it. Jesus said it was what you must do to be saved. If you don't want to be saved, you can be as grabby as you like.

The early Church did it. They didn't become poor, as in your warped version. They owned what they needed in common. Instead of twenty people owning twenty lawnmowers, all of which were idle 90 per cent of the time, they owned one lawnmower together.

Phat writes:

Nobody would have anything beyond a small social security stipend to retire on


That's what I have.

Phat writes:

Don't you see the obvious social ramifications?


People not going hungry? Yes, I can see that.

Phat writes:

Or do you revel in your preconceived utopian dream of socialism?


I've never called it Utopian. I have pointed out that it's what Jesus wanted.

Phat writes:

The rich young ruler was one person given one specific command.


As I said, it wasn't a command; it was what he had to do to be saved. Why would the requirement for salvation be different for different people?

"If you can keep your head when all about you
Are losing theirs and blaming it on you...."
-- Rudyard Kipling

This message is a reply to:
 Message 108 by Phat, posted 11-14-2019 11:43 AM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 110 by Phat, posted 11-14-2019 12:12 PM ringo has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 18134
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 111 of 308 (866679)
11-14-2019 12:46 PM
Reply to: Message 110 by Phat
11-14-2019 12:12 PM


Re: Fear Of The Left vs Fear Of being Left Behind
Phat writes:

ringo writes:

Why would the requirement for salvation be different for different people?


because people are different.

Christians often scoff at the idea of relative morality. Do you really want to go with a doctrine of relative salvation?

Phat writes:

Not everyone is called to leave everything they have behind and go trotting around the country like a vagabond.


I never said they were. The members of the early church believed they were called to hold what they needed in common and give the rest to the poor - i.e. they were called to embrace socialism.

"If you can keep your head when all about you
Are losing theirs and blaming it on you...."
-- Rudyard Kipling

This message is a reply to:
 Message 110 by Phat, posted 11-14-2019 12:12 PM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 112 by Phat, posted 11-14-2019 2:41 PM ringo has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 18134
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 138 of 308 (866748)
11-15-2019 10:40 AM
Reply to: Message 112 by Phat
11-14-2019 2:41 PM


Re: Fear Of The Left vs Fear Of being Left Behind
Phat writes:

Socialism wont work though without accepting the messenger.


What messenger? The message that Jesus brought was well known before he was ever thought of. It's a product of the social behaviors that humans have evolved.

Phat writes:

Secular Humanism is bankrupt in regards to advancing humanity.


On the contrary, it's your brand of Christianity that's bankrupt in regards to advancing humanity. You claim that "the Fall" makes it impossible for humanity to advance.

"If you can keep your head when all about you
Are losing theirs and blaming it on you...."
-- Rudyard Kipling

This message is a reply to:
 Message 112 by Phat, posted 11-14-2019 2:41 PM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 139 by Phat, posted 11-15-2019 10:46 AM ringo has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 18134
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 140 of 308 (866751)
11-15-2019 10:48 AM
Reply to: Message 127 by Phat
11-15-2019 6:06 AM


Re: Fear Of The Left vs Fear Of being Left Behind
Phat writes:

More correctly what His Daddy is gonna do to them...


But according to you, His daddy is Him.

Phat writes:

... which really ends up being what they do to themselves by refusing Him...


If I refuse heroin, what am I doing "to" myself?

Phat writes:

... and what the inevitable consequences are.


If the consequences are inevitable, God is not omnipotent.

"If you can keep your head when all about you
Are losing theirs and blaming it on you...."
-- Rudyard Kipling

This message is a reply to:
 Message 127 by Phat, posted 11-15-2019 6:06 AM Phat has not yet responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 18134
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.3


(2)
Message 141 of 308 (866752)
11-15-2019 10:56 AM
Reply to: Message 139 by Phat
11-15-2019 10:46 AM


Re: Fear Of The Left vs Fear Of being Left Behind
Phat writes:

Jesus was in the beginning.


Wrong.

Phat writes:

Since you base everything you say on evidence, you assume that Jesus was simply another human.


Based on the evidence, I conclude that Jesus didn't exist.

Phat writes:

It will take Him Himself to change your mind.


Don't be silly. Evidence would change my mind.

Phat writes:

And you will claim that the evidence shows us advancing.


It's a well-evidenced claim: Women have the right to vote. (Men have the right to vote, for that matter.) Black people have the right to vote. Black people have the right not to be owned by white people.

Phat writes:

You may see your evidence refuted.


Evidence can not be refuted. An argument can be refuted, but only by evidence.

"If you can keep your head when all about you
Are losing theirs and blaming it on you...."
-- Rudyard Kipling

This message is a reply to:
 Message 139 by Phat, posted 11-15-2019 10:46 AM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 142 by Theodoric, posted 11-15-2019 11:58 AM ringo has acknowledged this reply
 Message 154 by Phat, posted 11-16-2019 2:42 AM ringo has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 18134
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.3


(1)
Message 159 of 308 (866814)
11-16-2019 10:51 AM
Reply to: Message 154 by Phat
11-16-2019 2:42 AM


Re: Fear Of The Left vs Fear Of being Left Behind
Phat writes:

ringo writes:

Based on the evidence, I conclude that Jesus didn't exist.


Perhaps you and I see different evidence.

Well, I don't see any evidence and you don't present any, so....

Phat writes:

And to be fair, perhaps some of what I see as evidence are subjective feelings and experiences.


Learn what evidence is.

Phat writes:

I've by now read several books from both apologists making their arguments and by critics and atheists who make their cases also.


Are you ever going to present any of the apologists' arguments here? If you can't articulate the arguments, you're opinion that they're right doesn't carry much weight.

Phat writes:

I dont see myself as a truth-seeker that simply allows bits and pieces of evidence to take me wherever the conclusions lead.


We know that. You see yourself as somebody who already knows the absolute truth.

Phat writes:

I feel very strongly that there is deception in the world today and that we all are in a sense involved in a spiritual war--a war for truth.


The deception is on the part of the apologists. If it's a "war", you're on the wrong side.

"If you can keep your head when all about you
Are losing theirs and blaming it on you...."
-- Rudyard Kipling

This message is a reply to:
 Message 154 by Phat, posted 11-16-2019 2:42 AM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 165 by Phat, posted 11-16-2019 12:57 PM ringo has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 18134
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 167 of 308 (866835)
11-16-2019 1:15 PM
Reply to: Message 165 by Phat
11-16-2019 12:57 PM


Re: Fear Of The Left vs Fear Of being Left Behind
Phat writes:

Well I know one thing if its all i know. If I am on the wrong side God will correct me.


You're like the little old lady in the flood. God might send you a cop to warn you or a boat to rescue you or a helicopter to rescue you - but you reject all of them because you "trust God".

"If you can keep your head when all about you
Are losing theirs and blaming it on you...."
-- Rudyard Kipling

This message is a reply to:
 Message 165 by Phat, posted 11-16-2019 12:57 PM Phat has not yet responded

  
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