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Author Topic:   Dominant Force in West Today According to Dennis Prager is Fear of Left
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 7051
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005


Message 151 of 308 (866777)
11-15-2019 3:43 PM
Reply to: Message 149 by Faith
11-15-2019 3:18 PM


Re: There is no hell to fear
So you have no idea if there is a buddhist hell?
Curious why you did not respond to my other questions.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 149 by Faith, posted 11-15-2019 3:18 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 152 by Faith, posted 11-15-2019 8:26 PM Theodoric has responded

  
Faith 
Suspended Member
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 152 of 308 (866788)
11-15-2019 8:26 PM
Reply to: Message 151 by Theodoric
11-15-2019 3:43 PM


Re: There is no hell to fear
What kind of ****** comment is that? I said they do have a Hell. I said it more than once. I knew it from reading about it and I also know it from conversations with a Buddhist teacher. The pictures should add to the certainty.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 151 by Theodoric, posted 11-15-2019 3:43 PM Theodoric has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 153 by Theodoric, posted 11-15-2019 11:01 PM Faith has responded

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 7051
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005


Message 153 of 308 (866790)
11-15-2019 11:01 PM
Reply to: Message 152 by Faith
11-15-2019 8:26 PM


Re: There is no hell to fear
So you know nothing about a Buddhist hell. If you did you would be able to talk about it.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 152 by Faith, posted 11-15-2019 8:26 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 155 by Phat, posted 11-16-2019 3:02 AM Theodoric has not yet responded
 Message 156 by Faith, posted 11-16-2019 8:38 AM Theodoric has responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 13944
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.4


Message 154 of 308 (866791)
11-16-2019 2:42 AM
Reply to: Message 141 by ringo
11-15-2019 10:56 AM


Re: Fear Of The Left vs Fear Of being Left Behind
ringo writes:

Based on the evidence, I conclude that Jesus didn't exist.

Perhaps you and I see different evidence. And to be fair, perhaps some of what I see as evidence are subjective feelings and experiences. I will report them, however, because there are certain events in one's life that affect their behavior and world views for the rest of their lives.

I've by now read several books from both apologists making their arguments and by critics and atheists who make their cases also. Though I think that I am more open-minded than most "believers" I will admit that my entire perspective is based on my strongly held beliefs which originated with my conversion back in 1993.

I dont see myself as a truth-seeker that simply allows bits and pieces of evidence to take me wherever the conclusions lead. I feel very strongly that there is deception in the world today and that we all are in a sense involved in a spiritual war--a war for truth. I believe that this truth is the truth of Jesus Christ, who I believe is God's messenger and very character. When I was "saved" in early 1993, I experienced a definite change in my life and feeling. This experience was admittedly influenced by a church that I was with, but the feeling was not because of them, I am quite sure. In fact, I think that many of them did not have the feeling of knowing that God was real and that the very Spirit was living and active within us. I believe that not everyone has this. Critics claim that this idea that Christianity is exclusive and subjective rather than inclusive and objective is the main reason they reject it...unless they happen to be similarly aware.

Keep in mind that as I write this I am critical of myself. Never to the point of doubt, but always to the point of questioning what I feel, what Ive felt, and what others such as you claim I am supposed to feel and conclude.


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
~"We, humans, are engaged in an ongoing war of ideologies. I see it in this microcosm of EvC Forum just as I see it in the governments and attitudes of people throughout the world. Take your pick: Oppression or Seduction .
"~Thugpreacha

You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

“As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.”
? R.C. Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith


This message is a reply to:
 Message 141 by ringo, posted 11-15-2019 10:56 AM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 159 by ringo, posted 11-16-2019 10:51 AM Phat has responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 13944
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.4


Message 155 of 308 (866792)
11-16-2019 3:02 AM
Reply to: Message 153 by Theodoric
11-15-2019 11:01 PM


Ethnocentrism vs Cultural Relativism
I think I know where you are taking this.
quote:
1. Cultural relativism is the positive attitude or concept while ethnocentrism is the negative side. 2. Cultural relativism is showing a sense of understanding for different cultures and treating the uniqueness of these cultures with the utmost respect. 3. Ethnocentrism is the belief that your culture is right or the best.

Except in my mind, it is not a cultural thing. It's a human thing. Do I believe in Hell? To be honest, I don't know. Logically it would not make sense for humans to be doomed for hell when an all-powerful Creator could simply make the faulty ones cease to exist which, according to descriptions from all religions embracing such concepts, much more humane. On the other hand if Hell were intended as a sort of prison for rebellious spiritual beings, which ostensibly don't ever die, then the concept would make some sense. Humans would theoretically only end up there by default through rejecting Jesus.

In addition, I can readily see the arguments that assert that the concept of hell was a fear and manipulation tactic by organized religion. And this is where it gets tricky. For if everything was initially taught and described by humans and if humans were fallible creatures of whom some were conmen and manipulators, finding the real truth through this smokescreen would be (and is) somewhat difficult. I use my intuition which I believe that I acquired when I first changed. Yet here again is a conundrum. Observation shows that people do in fact have a dramatic change when they first get saved, but that few of them maintain it and fall back into their old patterns and ways. For me personally, this happened. If anything, I knew better whereas I used to not even care before all of this. The seesaw battle within my own mind has thus been projected by myself into a global problem. In my mind, the jury is still out...not for me personally, but for everyone else.


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
~"We, humans, are engaged in an ongoing war of ideologies. I see it in this microcosm of EvC Forum just as I see it in the governments and attitudes of people throughout the world. Take your pick: Oppression or Seduction .
"~Thugpreacha

You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

“As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.”
? R.C. Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith


This message is a reply to:
 Message 153 by Theodoric, posted 11-15-2019 11:01 PM Theodoric has not yet responded

  
Faith 
Suspended Member
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 156 of 308 (866807)
11-16-2019 8:38 AM
Reply to: Message 153 by Theodoric
11-15-2019 11:01 PM


Re: There is no hell to fear
Buddhist Hell as I understand consists of different realms for the punishment of different kinds of sins. I haven't studied it, why should I? I gave evidence that it exists and that's enough for my purposes in this discussion.

But I suppose to punish gluttony they starve them or make them eat dirt? To punish adultery they cut out their genitals? To punish ***** they cut out the tongue? Perhaps they murder murderers over and over again? I've read stuff **** that somewhere, maybe it applies here.

But I'm interested in the mere **** that they have a place of punishment which Christianity also has though it is denied. The ***** speaks of Hell but does not define it. I guess we could also read up on Hades, the Greek version of Hell, or others, but the point is simple: Christianity did not invent Hell, the concept preexisted Christ in many cultures already.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 153 by Theodoric, posted 11-15-2019 11:01 PM Theodoric has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 157 by jar, posted 11-16-2019 9:48 AM Faith has not yet responded
 Message 158 by RAZD, posted 11-16-2019 10:29 AM Faith has responded
 Message 168 by Theodoric, posted 11-16-2019 1:36 PM Faith has not yet responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 32519
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.0


Message 157 of 308 (866811)
11-16-2019 9:48 AM
Reply to: Message 156 by Faith
11-16-2019 8:38 AM


Re: There is no hell to fear
You are thinking of Naraka. Yes, some people do refer to it with the term "hell" but it has no real correspondence to the Dante inspired HELL marketed by the cult of Fundamental Christianity.

You can learn about Naraka here.


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 156 by Faith, posted 11-16-2019 8:38 AM Faith has not yet responded

  
RAZD
Member
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 158 of 308 (866812)
11-16-2019 10:29 AM
Reply to: Message 156 by Faith
11-16-2019 8:38 AM


Re: There is no hell to fear
Buddhist Hell as I understand consists of different realms for the punishment of different kinds of sins. I haven't studied it, why should I? I gave evidence that it exists and that's enough for my purposes in this discussion.

And it isn't permanent banishment, so equating it with Fundy Christian Hell is a false comparison -- it is closer to purgatory.

quote:
Purgatory (Latin: purgatorium, via Anglo-Norman and Old French)[1] is, according to the belief of some Christians, an intermediate state after physical death for expiatory purification.[2] There is disagreement among Christians whether such a state exists. Some forms of Western Christianity, particularly within Protestantism, deny its existence. Other strands of Western Christianity see purgatory as a place, perhaps filled with fire. Some concepts of Gehenna in Judaism are similar to that of purgatory. The word "purgatory" has come to refer also to a wide range of historical and modern conceptions of postmortem suffering short of everlasting damnation[3] and is used, in a non-specific sense, to mean any place or condition of suffering or torment, especially one that is temporary.[4]

The Catholic Church holds that "all who die in God's grace and friendship but still imperfectly purified" undergo the process of purification which the Church calls purgatory, "so as to achieve the holiness necessary to enter the joy of heaven". It has formulated this doctrine by reference to biblical verses that speak of purifying fire (1 Corinthians 3:15 and 1 Peter 1:7) and to the mention by Jesus of forgiveness in the age to come (Matthew 12:32). It bases its teaching also on the practice of praying for the dead in use within the Church ever since the Church began and which is mentioned even earlier in 2 Macc 12:46.[5][6]


Of course it is clearly myth rather than fact and you can apply whatever fantasy you want to it.

Enjoy

Edited by RAZD, : .


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel•American•Zen•Deist
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This message is a reply to:
 Message 156 by Faith, posted 11-16-2019 8:38 AM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 162 by Faith, posted 11-16-2019 11:22 AM RAZD has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 18129
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.3


(1)
Message 159 of 308 (866814)
11-16-2019 10:51 AM
Reply to: Message 154 by Phat
11-16-2019 2:42 AM


Re: Fear Of The Left vs Fear Of being Left Behind
Phat writes:

ringo writes:

Based on the evidence, I conclude that Jesus didn't exist.


Perhaps you and I see different evidence.

Well, I don't see any evidence and you don't present any, so....

Phat writes:

And to be fair, perhaps some of what I see as evidence are subjective feelings and experiences.


Learn what evidence is.

Phat writes:

I've by now read several books from both apologists making their arguments and by critics and atheists who make their cases also.


Are you ever going to present any of the apologists' arguments here? If you can't articulate the arguments, you're opinion that they're right doesn't carry much weight.

Phat writes:

I dont see myself as a truth-seeker that simply allows bits and pieces of evidence to take me wherever the conclusions lead.


We know that. You see yourself as somebody who already knows the absolute truth.

Phat writes:

I feel very strongly that there is deception in the world today and that we all are in a sense involved in a spiritual war--a war for truth.


The deception is on the part of the apologists. If it's a "war", you're on the wrong side.

"If you can keep your head when all about you
Are losing theirs and blaming it on you...."
-- Rudyard Kipling

This message is a reply to:
 Message 154 by Phat, posted 11-16-2019 2:42 AM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 165 by Phat, posted 11-16-2019 12:57 PM ringo has responded

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 19801
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.4


Message 160 of 308 (866818)
11-16-2019 11:13 AM
Reply to: Message 82 by Faith
11-12-2019 3:01 PM


Re: Irony
Faith writes:

Why should I believe they are Trump supporters. What's the evidence?

The chants of "USA, USA" and other Trump slogans at the beginning made clear it was a strongly predominant Trump crowd, and it was the same crowd shouting "Q&A, Q&A" when Trump Jr. left the stage. The campus newspaper reporter said there was only one vocal anti-Trump supporter, and she was shown wearing a hijab in one of the videos.

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 82 by Faith, posted 11-12-2019 3:01 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 161 by Faith, posted 11-16-2019 11:17 AM Percy has responded

  
Faith 
Suspended Member
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 161 of 308 (866819)
11-16-2019 11:17 AM
Reply to: Message 160 by Percy
11-16-2019 11:13 AM


Re: Irony
What you aren't getting is that infiltrators are going to act **** Trump supporters so they can provide the fake news of shouting him off the stage. I simply don't know of any actual Trump supporters who would have done that to Trump Jr. But perhaps you have better evidence.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 160 by Percy, posted 11-16-2019 11:13 AM Percy has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 164 by Percy, posted 11-16-2019 11:36 AM Faith has not yet responded

  
Faith 
Suspended Member
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 162 of 308 (866821)
11-16-2019 11:22 AM
Reply to: Message 158 by RAZD
11-16-2019 10:29 AM


Re: There is no hell to fear
No it isn't permanent but there is also reincarnation which brings you back as an animal or insect which isn't much more fun. Anyway the Buddhist Hell it is a place where sins are punished, and I bet most people don't know that, most people think Christianity invented Hell. But no, what Christianity gave us was a Savior from it. If you are willing to go through thousands of ***** before you finally figure out how to snuff out your karma and experience Nirvana, go ahead. I find it too hard to believe in reincarnation myself, and I know of some actual Buddhists who fear coming back as an animal, speaking of fearing Hell. Or even coming back as a human being only with no memory of their identity in this ****.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 158 by RAZD, posted 11-16-2019 10:29 AM RAZD has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 163 by jar, posted 11-16-2019 11:27 AM Faith has not yet responded
 Message 169 by Theodoric, posted 11-16-2019 1:40 PM Faith has responded
 Message 174 by RAZD, posted 11-17-2019 1:13 AM Faith has responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 32519
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.0


Message 163 of 308 (866823)
11-16-2019 11:27 AM
Reply to: Message 162 by Faith
11-16-2019 11:22 AM


Re: There is no hell to fear
Faith writes:

Anyway the Buddhist Hell it is a place where sins are punished, and I bet most people don't know that, most people think Christianity invented Hell.

That's just another false and absurd statement from you. Only complete fools think Christianity invented hell; they just invented a way to profit through marketing the Get Outta the Hell we marketed" card.

Long before the Garden of Eden there were societies and religions all over the world that had traditions of some sort of hell.


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 162 by Faith, posted 11-16-2019 11:22 AM Faith has not yet responded

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 19801
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.4


Message 164 of 308 (866826)
11-16-2019 11:36 AM
Reply to: Message 161 by Faith
11-16-2019 11:17 AM


Re: Irony
Faith writes:

What you aren't getting is that infiltrators are going to act like Trump supporters so they can provide the fake news of shouting him off the stage.

You live in an active fantasy world.

I simply don't know of any actual Trump supporters who would have done that to Trump Jr.

Since you hardly know anyone, especially in that age group, this is an empty assertion.

But perhaps you have better evidence.

You can't compare your evidence to mine because you've provided no evidence. All you've provided is denial and false bluster. I provided two videos. Here's another video of conservative Meghan McCain taking on Donald Trump Jr. on The View:

Being a Trump supporter doesn't mean supporting everything Trump or everyone in his family does.

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 161 by Faith, posted 11-16-2019 11:17 AM Faith has not yet responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 13944
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.4


Message 165 of 308 (866833)
11-16-2019 12:57 PM
Reply to: Message 159 by ringo
11-16-2019 10:51 AM


Re: Fear Of The Left vs Fear Of being Left Behind
The deception is on the part of the apologists. If it's a "war", you're on the wrong side.
Well I know one thing if its all i know. If I am on the wrong side God will correct me.

Edited by Thugpreacha, : Spelling


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
~"We, humans, are engaged in an ongoing war of ideologies. I see it in this microcosm of EvC Forum just as I see it in the governments and attitudes of people throughout the world. Take your pick: Oppression or Seduction .
"~Thugpreacha

You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

“As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.”
? R.C. Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith


This message is a reply to:
 Message 159 by ringo, posted 11-16-2019 10:51 AM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 166 by jar, posted 11-16-2019 1:01 PM Phat has not yet responded
 Message 167 by ringo, posted 11-16-2019 1:15 PM Phat has not yet responded
 Message 170 by Percy, posted 11-16-2019 2:08 PM Phat has responded

  
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