Understanding through Discussion


Welcome! You are not logged in. [ Login ]
EvC Forum active members: 85 (8951 total)
41 online now:
Newest Member: Mikee
Post Volume: Total: 866,984 Year: 22,020/19,786 Month: 583/1,834 Week: 83/500 Day: 41/42 Hour: 8/8


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   White skin and blue eyes origin.
Hyroglyphx
Member
Posts: 5875
From: Austin, TX
Joined: 05-03-2006
Member Rating: 2.4


(1)
Message 61 of 73 (866595)
11-12-2019 8:44 PM
Reply to: Message 60 by Theodoric
11-12-2019 8:20 PM


Re: American Genocide
I want to make clear. I am not attacking you or your post. All I am doing is pointing out inaccuracies in your post.

Your position was well-articulated with salient points that I perhaps did not consider. I will take your suggestion to heart and I appreciate the constructive dialogue.


"Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine

This message is a reply to:
 Message 60 by Theodoric, posted 11-12-2019 8:20 PM Theodoric has not yet responded

AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 4785
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 4.9


(4)
Message 62 of 73 (866596)
11-12-2019 8:48 PM
Reply to: Message 59 by Faith
11-12-2019 8:15 PM


The New Way
I just want a better life for people without hurting anyone. That means education and medical care and nutritional care and freedom from prejudice, religious and economic violence. And in this world today that means wealth redistribution and confiscatory taxes on the extremely wealthy and anti-discrimination laws and hate crime laws with zealous enforcement and real hard jail time.

How else are we going to provide for the less fortunate in our society? Let them suffer? Let them die? To save a multibillionaire another $$ hundred billion? So Nazis can throw gays and jews off of buildings?

Self control and Voluntary altruism are not working. It's time we try something else.

Where are the christians in this country? Why do they only cry for jesus when invoking the prosperity gospel and social hatreds?

Edited by AZPaul3, : No reason given.


Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 59 by Faith, posted 11-12-2019 8:15 PM Faith has not yet responded

PaulK
Member
Posts: 15637
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.8


Message 63 of 73 (866605)
11-13-2019 12:57 AM
Reply to: Message 52 by Faith
11-12-2019 6:26 PM


Re: Anti-American Propaganda,
quote:
I'm sick of all the anti-American propaganda and that's all your avatar represents to me.

It’s not propaganda though. There is a real and valid point there. You just want it silenced.

quote:
In fact history is in general far more complex than anything Leftists say about any of it, which is ALL propaganda, all manufactured hate-America Marixist lies.

So you’re claiming that history is complex and all the bits you don’t want known are just “manufactured hate-America Marixist lies”. Not exactly a winning argument, that.

quote:
Gosh isn't it interesting how censorship has become the weapon of choice at EvC against Leftist opinions?

Faith, you are the one trying to suppress views you don’t like. If anyone qualifies as a wanna-be censor it’s you.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 52 by Faith, posted 11-12-2019 6:26 PM Faith has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 65 by Thugpreacha, posted 11-13-2019 2:27 AM PaulK has not yet responded

Thugpreacha
Member
Posts: 13371
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 64 of 73 (866606)
11-13-2019 2:08 AM
Reply to: Message 38 by Faith
11-12-2019 3:13 PM


Why I am a political moderate
First of all, I am going to say I did a bit of research into Theodoric's source. The author has a lot of valid credibilities.

quote:
Caleb Johnson, the author and historian behind MayflowerHistory.com, graduated from Texas Tech University with two majors (history and English) and two minors (computer science and archaeology). He subsequently earned an MBA with an emphasis in IT Management. He has been researching and studying the Mayflower passengers for twenty-five years, and has authored and edited a number of books including the 1173-page reference tome, The Complete Works of the Mayflower Pilgrims (Vancouver, 2003); The Mayflower and Her Passengers (Xlibris, 2005); William Bradford's Of Plymouth Plantation (Xlibris, 2006), and his best-selling work--a biography of Mayflower passenger Stephen Hopkins entitled Here Shall I Die Ashore. Caleb has been interviewed and quoted by numerous publications, usually for Thanksgiving-related pieces, including the New York Times, Wall Street Journal, Gannett News Service, and National Public Radio. His research has been used and cited by New York Times best-selling authors including Nathaniel Philbrick (Mayflower) and Nick Bunker (Making Haste from Babylon), and he assisted with the Sally Fields episode of PBS's "Finding Your Roots." Caleb edited the scholarly historical and genealogical journal, the Mayflower Descendant (first edited by George Ernest Bowman in 1899) from 2011-2014, and remains a contributing editor today. Caleb has been on the forefront of Mayflower genealogical research as it pertains to the English origins of the Mayflower passengers, discovering the English origins of Stephen Hopkins at Hursley, Hampshire (1998) and Peter Browne at Dorking, Surrey, England (2004). In 2017-2018, he collaborated with Sue Allan and Simon Neal to piece together the English origins of two more Mayflower passengers William and Susanna (Jackson) White, and the trio of researchers continues their research in English records.
That being said, I remain a moderate because I have personal issues with the collective attitudes of both ideologies. The Far Right is authoritarian and prejudiced at best. There is evidence of some racism within some members of this group...more than is there in the Left. That being said, I am no fan of the Left either. I saw how the EvC Left group dogpiles and sticks together, just as the accusations that Faith says about the political battles suggests.

Of course, I am generalizing, (this is an opinionated rant, to be clear) I was quite disappointed how our newest Forum Member was dissuaded from sticking around due to the egos involved here at EvC> You liberals think you own this place. I could boot out any dissident to your approval or close a topic that you deem unworthy, but I'm tired of the lot of you. Faith has a point concerning the attitudes she faces here. She is a dyed in the wool populist and a true example of WQhite Privilege struggling to survive...and I respect her right to be heard, even though she is indeed often a bit dogmatic, simplistic, and willfully ignorant of modern science and critical thinking. Sometimes I agree with the Populists in that the relativistic humanistic "equality for all quirks and choices" type of thought is in fact an attempt to make such thinking global and proper by default. So Theodoric feels victimized in Wisconsin? So a case can be made that the Indians were victimized...as wer the minorities...as were the gays...etc etc.

Soon, even the poor oppressed terrorists of Islam will be granted rights and defended by this altruistic bunch of narcissist demigods known as the political
****....(You know where I am going).

On the other hand, let's say the global Populists, German ***** and Authoritarian Christian Nationalists were to win. Then what? Well let me tell you the world would be no better off because of it.

We, humans, are engaged in an ongoing war of ideologies. I see it in this microcosm of EvC Forum just as I see it in the governments and attitudes of people throughout the world. Take your pick: Oppression or Seduction through humanism? Neither way is the way that people must learn to form consensus and co-exist.


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

“As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.”
? R.C. Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith


This message is a reply to:
 Message 38 by Faith, posted 11-12-2019 3:13 PM Faith has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 69 by Theodoric, posted 11-13-2019 9:15 AM Thugpreacha has acknowledged this reply
 Message 71 by jar, posted 11-13-2019 9:42 AM Thugpreacha has responded

Thugpreacha
Member
Posts: 13371
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 65 of 73 (866607)
11-13-2019 2:27 AM
Reply to: Message 63 by PaulK
11-13-2019 12:57 AM


Re: Anti-American Propaganda,
There is a real and valid point there. You just want it silenced.
This is a trait of Right-Wing extremism. The Populists were in favor of Christian nationalism and one nation under God. The problem, is they don't respect God as much as they respect their own manifest destiny and entitlement.

On the other hand, (there is always two) it is one thing to protest and push for global equality and equal vs preferential representation and law, but the problem with the humanist push is that it threw God out.

The dollar bill pyramid explains it well.

Jesus was the capstone that the builders (of society) rejected. In its place, they want a capstone of global consensus and unified human wisdom. Which I predict will fail. Thus we have two losing ideologies fighting for control on this planet. Both of them are flawed.

Edited by Thugpreacha, : No reason given.


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

“As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.”
? R.C. Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith


This message is a reply to:
 Message 63 by PaulK, posted 11-13-2019 12:57 AM PaulK has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 70 by Theodoric, posted 11-13-2019 9:17 AM Thugpreacha has acknowledged this reply

RAZD
Member
Posts: 20326
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
Member Rating: 3.6


Message 66 of 73 (866610)
11-13-2019 7:45 AM
Reply to: Message 30 by Faith
11-12-2019 2:47 PM


Re: Skin Color is inherited and mutated.
Yes it shows that it's possible, despite all your evolutionist crap. Mutations schmutations, ...

Which you cannot dismiss, no matter how much you hate them. They are real. They exist.

... the Bible, it's all crap.

Especially when you make up stuff that isn't in it.

Can you tell me, dear Faith, what skin color your purported Adam and Eve were? Perhaps Evie was white and Adam was black ... according to the bible?

After all, if it were historically accurate, Jesus would be a (mediterranean) brown skinned black haired Jew.

As the evidence shows, there are four areas of the genome having to do with skin color, each showing mutations to different degrees in different zones of the world.

You can't handle the truth.

Enjoy

Edited by RAZD, : No reason given.

Edited by RAZD, : .

Edited by RAZD, : .


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel•American•Zen•Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 30 by Faith, posted 11-12-2019 2:47 PM Faith has not yet responded

Thugpreacha
Member
Posts: 13371
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 67 of 73 (866612)
11-13-2019 7:53 AM
Reply to: Message 16 by ski zawaski
11-12-2019 9:17 AM


Shall We Close This Topic?
Ski, are you in favor of closing this topic? We DO get carried away around here but I don't want to scare you off. Feel free to start a topic in Faith & Belief and defend your belief in facts rather than fairy tales. If you have no objections, I will ask Percy if I can close it. Does anyone else besides Theodoric and Caffeine suggest it be closed?

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
~"We, humans, are engaged in an ongoing war of ideologies. I see it in this microcosm of EvC Forum just as I see it in the governments and attitudes of people throughout the world. Take your pick: Oppression or Seduction .
"~Thugpreacha

You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

“As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.”
? R.C. Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith


This message is a reply to:
 Message 16 by ski zawaski, posted 11-12-2019 9:17 AM ski zawaski has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 68 by AZPaul3, posted 11-13-2019 9:06 AM Thugpreacha has not yet responded

AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 4785
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 68 of 73 (866618)
11-13-2019 9:06 AM
Reply to: Message 67 by Thugpreacha
11-13-2019 7:53 AM


Re: Shall We Close This Topic?
No objection.

Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 67 by Thugpreacha, posted 11-13-2019 7:53 AM Thugpreacha has not yet responded

Theodoric
Member
Posts: 6879
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.3


(2)
Message 69 of 73 (866619)
11-13-2019 9:15 AM
Reply to: Message 64 by Thugpreacha
11-13-2019 2:08 AM


Why are not a political moderate
That being said, I remain a moderate because I have personal issues with the collective attitudes of both ideologies.

You are only a moderate compared to people like Faith. You are in actuality very far right. You expect your religion to be granted special privileges, you think you should have more rights than other people and you discriminate against those with more liberal views than your own. You are hard right. The only thing you support that is not right wing is Unions. But I think your beliefs in that are more right than left. You seem to view the union as a means of what does it do for you personally. You do not seem to embrace the overall union ideal of a collective voice to uphold and expand the rights of all workers. It is more of what can it do for you.
Soon, even the poor oppressed terrorists of Islam will be granted rights

Yes even islamic terrorists have rights. The most heinous murderer you can think of has rights. Do christian terrorists have rights? If a person is in the United States of America, no matter who they are, where they come from or what nationality they are, they have rights. Those rights may be different than all the rights a US citizen has, but they have rights.
If they do not have any rights than we are no better than barbarians.

I was quite disappointed how our newest Forum Member was dissuaded from sticking around due to the egos involved here at EvC> You liberals think you own this place. I could boot out any dissident to your approval or close a topic that you deem unworthy, but I'm tired of the lot of you.

Screw you. Show us how the "liberals" mistreated him. Following and understanding basic scientific concepts is not "liberal". You, sir, have gone off the rails. He presented a flawed argument that probably did not deserve it's own thread. He had a wild ass idea with no backing at all. Three posts later it had been answered and shown to be lacking in logic. He himself stated before you even promoted the thread.
I don't have any sources for my assertion

Are we supposed to continue to discuss something that was addressed and dealt with?

How about I propose a thread stating that I think large human feet are the result of human's keeping Neanderthal women as breading stock. My evidence? None. I just think it is cool and makes sense. Would you promote that drivel?
If being an elitist and egoist is not being the dumbest person in the room, than I am guilty. I am an elitist and egoist using those parameters.

Oppression or Seduction through humanism? Neither way is the way that people must learn to form consensus and co-exist.

This is a false dilemma. Those are not the only choices and presenting Humanism as some sort of bogey man is just more of you poisoning the well.

Finally, about my source on "thanksgiving". The source I used does not matter. What is the provenance of the original source material? That is what matters. The most preeminent scholar in the world could post bogus shit on the web. If we want to use that as support for an argument it is important that we understand where that person got that info. My link was to the original writings of a mayflower colonist. The site I linked to does not matter, what matters is I did enough legwork to be satisfied that this is in fact representative of the original letter. The mayflowerhistory site is very reputable, but it's sources must also be vetted. How did I vet the letter? I have known about this letter for years and I am very familiar with the information contained in it. It would be very easy for me to vet it now if I knew nothing about it. Corroborating evidence is the most important. Just like we will see in the impeachment proceedings. I can corroborate this letter on multiple sources. I can see that historians have talked about this letter for many years.
Vetting sources and information takes time. Corroborating take times. If you want the information you present to be respected and considered you must vet and corroborate all the information.
Rant over.


Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 64 by Thugpreacha, posted 11-13-2019 2:08 AM Thugpreacha has acknowledged this reply

Theodoric
Member
Posts: 6879
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.3


Message 70 of 73 (866620)
11-13-2019 9:17 AM
Reply to: Message 65 by Thugpreacha
11-13-2019 2:27 AM


Re: Anti-American Propaganda,
The dollar bill pyramid explains it well.
Jesus was the capstone that the builders (of society) rejected. In its place, they want a capstone of global consensus and unified human wisdom. Which I predict will fail. Thus we have two losing ideologies fighting for control on this planet. Both of them are flawed.

More preaching. Do you have any clue about the rules for the science forums?

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 65 by Thugpreacha, posted 11-13-2019 2:27 AM Thugpreacha has acknowledged this reply

jar
Member
Posts: 31766
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.6


(1)
Message 71 of 73 (866624)
11-13-2019 9:42 AM
Reply to: Message 64 by Thugpreacha
11-13-2019 2:08 AM


Re: Why I am a political moderate
Phat writes:

We, humans, are engaged in an ongoing war of ideologies.

Sorry Phat but that war has long been over.

Reality always wins.

Religious Beliefs can, has happened so often in the past, try to suppress knowledge and reality but fantasy can never win.


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 64 by Thugpreacha, posted 11-13-2019 2:08 AM Thugpreacha has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 72 by Thugpreacha, posted 11-13-2019 1:43 PM jar has not yet responded

Thugpreacha
Member
Posts: 13371
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 72 of 73 (866633)
11-13-2019 1:43 PM
Reply to: Message 71 by jar
11-13-2019 9:42 AM


Since the topic is in summation mode anyway...
jar writes:

Reality always wins.

But the game is not yet over. Or we could call it the human experiment. Do you have any idea or possible clues as to what we are testing?

We have not yet established beyond a reasonable doubt that what the snake oil sellers are peddling is a worthless product.

We have established that many people can not or will not believe without evidence, while a larger control group doubles down when faced with a lack of evidence.

We have not yet tested whether the larger control group might not through self-fulfilling prophecy make simple stories and myths out to occur anyway.

Edited by Thugpreacha, : No reason given.

Edited by Thugpreacha, : No reason given.


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
~"We, humans, are engaged in an ongoing war of ideologies. I see it in this microcosm of EvC Forum just as I see it in the governments and attitudes of people throughout the world. Take your pick: Oppression or Seduction .
"~Thugpreacha

You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

“As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.”
? R.C. Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith


This message is a reply to:
 Message 71 by jar, posted 11-13-2019 9:42 AM jar has not yet responded

jar
Member
Posts: 31766
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 73 of 73 (866636)
11-13-2019 2:57 PM


summary
The initial question in the OP has been answered.

The OP has decided to prefer that fantasy to reality.

This is always possible.

Yet reality always wins.

Evidence always trumps beliefs.

Those who value source or beliefs over reality can of course bring about destruction, yet reality will continue.

Religious nuts can and have destroyed many civilizations in the past and religious nuts can and likely will destroy civilizations in the future.

Reality really doesn't care. Humans just are not important to reality.

If the Religious Nuts destroy this civilization the world will continue to exist, the universe will continue to exist, it's likely even life will continue to exist. All that would be lost are humans.


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2018 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.0 Beta
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2019