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Author Topic:   When did Republicans learn to hate Democrats more than Russia?
Faith
Member
Posts: 34460
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 46 of 67 (867923)
12-05-2019 2:22 AM
Reply to: Message 45 by dwise1
12-04-2019 7:09 PM


Re: Weasel words, not justice
MAY ALL THE TRUTH COME OUT.
Oh, it will all come out! After all Trump's frantic attempts to obstruct the investigations have been thwarted.

Which in reality are his legitimate reactions to being endlessly harassed and falsely accused for political reasons since before he took office. I suppose they may very well thwart his legitimate attempts to act as a President is supposed to act with a foreign leader, by redefining it as criminal, and thwart his attempts to defend himself against this witch hunt in his own way.

But I'm glad to see the House Republicans rising to the task of bringing out the truth, in some cases even rather heroically.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 45 by dwise1, posted 12-04-2019 7:09 PM dwise1 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 48 by dwise1, posted 12-05-2019 5:21 AM Faith has responded

  
dwise1
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Posts: 3953
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 2.8


(4)
Message 47 of 67 (867928)
12-05-2019 4:14 AM
Reply to: Message 13 by frako
11-30-2019 3:05 PM


They dint lie, if Donny does not get reelected he will be indicted.

Not only do I agree, but I think that that is one of the primary reasons why Trump is so desperate to be re-elected. The extra money he's getting by laundering campaign contributions is only secondary (ignoring his golfing and hotel emoluments and whatever streams of foreign income he's keeping hidden).

I'm sure I've seen this comment that I have arrived at (don't remember where), but Trump becoming President was perhaps the single shtupidest mistake that he has ever made in his entire life. All his life, he's been a small-bananas crook who didn't draw enough interest from the authorities for them to bother to go after him. Now that he's hit the big time and has caused enormous damage to many people, he is drawing a lot of interest from everyone around him. His standard defense had been to bury his critics and opponents under tons of litigation (eg, subcontractors that he refused to pay and other of his victims). That had always worked for him before because nobody who went up against him had pockets deep enough to spend the enormous amount of money needed and to survive the years of legal wrangling that it would take -- if Trump had cheated you out of $100,000, then it wouldn't be worthwhile for you to spend $1,000,000 in order to collect that $100,000, so you would settle out of court for a much smaller figure. Now it's the government that will be going after him and the government has very deep pockets and can slug out a legal battle for many years. Trump will find himself grossly outmatched this time.

I don't think that Trump ever expected to win that election (nor am I alone, though I can cite no sources). There was an account of Trump's party watching the returns on election night in which Trump just sat there in shock, Melania started crying angrily, Pence tried to approach his wife who rebuffed him sternly (¿angrily?) saying "You got what you wanted!" I remember how, leading up to the final days before the election, Trump was starting to spread the narrative that the election was fixed. Since he was anticipating losing, he was trying to set up the next big publicity show. I think that we can see him trying or planning to resort to that trick again for 2020.

During the 2016 campaign, a radio commentator's comment drew my attention to part of Trump's scams, one which becomes increasingly evident as you examine it. The Trump Campaign offices were housed in Trump properties, serviced by Trump services, fed by Trump catering, etc. Virtually all the campaign expenses paid by the Trump Campaign was paid to Trump's own businesses, and therefore to Trump. In addition, investigative reporters tracked down various Trump properties getting money for campaign operations and found that the offices in those properties were empty and had been for a long time (according to local people living and working there).

So then I was not very surprised when Trump registered for running for re-election as soon as possible. What that did for him was to allow him to keep his campaign operations "cash cow" alive and giving for as long as possible.

Then there's Trump's Presidential transition. That is described in the Guardian's article, 'This guy doesn’t know anything': the inside story of Trump’s shambolic transition team by Michael Lewis (author of Moneyball and The Big Short), 2018 Sep 27.

The primary source for that article was Chris Christie who had joined the Trump team and who tried to run the transition. It's a hoot of a read with a lot of insider observations of the early stages of this train wreck. IOW, read it.

One of the things we walk away from that article with is that Trump had absolutely no concept of what must be handled in a presidential transition, such that he thought you could hash it all out in a couple hours.

The other major thing was Trump's attitude towards the money allocated to the transition and his reaction to that money being spent. Read the article. Barring that, after a paragraph describing Christie's transition work:

quote:
The first time Trump paid attention to any of this was when he read about it in the newspaper. The story revealed that Trump’s very own transition team had raised several million dollars to pay the staff. The moment he saw it, Trump called Steve Bannon, the chief executive of his campaign, from his office on the 26th floor of Trump Tower, and told him to come immediately to his residence, many floors above. Bannon stepped off the elevator to find Christie seated on a sofa, being hollered at. Trump was apoplectic, yelling: You’re stealing my money! You’re stealing my fucking money! What the fuck is this?

Seeing Bannon, Trump turned on him and screamed: Why are you letting him steal my fucking money? Bannon and Christie together set out to explain to Trump federal law. Months before the election, the law said, the nominees of the two major parties were expected to prepare to take control of the government. The government supplied them with office space in downtown DC, along with computers and rubbish bins and so on, but the campaigns paid their people. To which Trump replied: Fuck the law. I don’t give a fuck about the law. I want my fucking money. Bannon and Christie tried to explain that Trump couldn’t have both his money and a transition.

Shut it down, said Trump. Shut down the transition.


So then, Trump's driving attitude has been that all money streaming in is his by right. All that he sees is various streams of revenue for him personally.

All his golfing trips always to his own golf resorts, never ever to any competitors' (as would be required according to considerations of conflict of interest) nor any neutral party's (eg, the many golf courses on military bases which is where Obama had gone golfing with absolutely no personal benefit to himself, unlike Trump)!

And then of course there's Trump awarding the contract for the next G-7 Summit to his own property of Doral. He immediately withdrew that award in face of the reaction of everybody who is even remotely sane, though he still grouses about it. What he did is the most characteristic definition of corruption, which is directing public contracts (AKA "money") to your own pocket because of the office that you hold.

Secondary example is Trump's superfluous "golf trips". It seemed that every single time Obama went golfing, the Fake News Network would become apoplectic about it, yet in just two years Trump's own time on the courses has exceeded all eight (8) years of Obama's own golfing.

Let us also note that Obama's own golfing never benefited him financially. He would go to a local military golf course (I am not a golfer, far from it, but I have noticed that a number of military bases, even reserve bases, have golf courses). A side benefit of that would be that all it took to get Obama and his retinue to the golf course and back was a simple motorcade.

Now Trump! He will only allow his golf trips to be to his own properties (id est, corruption up the ying-yang! ). He has to transport all his retinue and all their equipment to his own private property in Florida (Mar-A-Lago, usually but not always) -- at government expense. All his retinue, every single troop, has to be quartered and fed and all that has to be paid for. The resort bills the government and the government pays the bill. And after all the expenses, the remaining profit still flows into Trump's own pocket.

And the only reason why Trump is making a profit from his golf trips is because he uses his office to select his own resorts for his golf trips. Classic and inescapable corruption.

 

When Trump is finally removed from office such that the corrupted DOJ can no longer protect him from indictment, he is, as per the standard Chinese curse about living in interesting times, going to have some very interesting times as he faces one indictment after another.

Personally, I feel that there are many sealed indictments out there, indictments based on much evidence, but which cannot be presented until certain conditions are met. The first obvious one is the case of Stormy Daniels in which Trump was named as the "unindicted co-conspirator". OK, you cannot indict a sitting president, but can't you still indict him in a sealed indictment that can then be released later under certain circumstances?

Trump is desperate to use any and all tricks for protection against answering for his actions.

His only hope of accomplishing that is to remain immune from answering for his actions. The only way he can maintain that is by being reelected. That is the primary reason why Trump absolutely needs to be reelected.


This message is a reply to:
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dwise1
Member
Posts: 3953
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 2.8


(1)
Message 48 of 67 (867932)
12-05-2019 5:21 AM
Reply to: Message 46 by Faith
12-05-2019 2:22 AM


Re: Weasel words, not justice
Hey. Trump could have provided all the information he could want in order to show that there's nothing at all wrong with what he's been doing. Yet he not only refuses to do so, but he is going to very extremely legalistic extremes to avoid doing so. Gee, why would that be?

That information exonerating Trump has been asked for, repeatedly, and has been withheld because of ... Trump. So why would he ever block evidence that would exonerate him? Because all evidence condemns him?

In order to show that he is innocent, Trump needs to be completely open and transparent, including showing his taxes and all other financials.

Instead, he is completely closed and opaque about his finances. Which means that he is showing that he is guilty.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 46 by Faith, posted 12-05-2019 2:22 AM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 49 by Faith, posted 12-05-2019 5:34 AM dwise1 has not yet responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 34460
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 49 of 67 (867934)
12-05-2019 5:34 AM
Reply to: Message 48 by dwise1
12-05-2019 5:21 AM


Re: Weasel words, not justice
He IS completely open and transparent. Nothing you are saying about his supposedly hiding things is true. He's all out there. His taxes have nothing to do with the impeachment, they are his own business. Why are they needed? Because the evidence they have to impeach him on is a big zero so they think they'll find something in his taxes. What they'll find is small things they don't understand they can twist into something criminal, just the way they've been inventing this whole witchhunt from the beginning. He's hiding nothing, he's obstructing nothing. But the Constitution is being twisted and distorted, the laws are being twisted and distorted, opinion is being accepted as evidence, "witnesses" are giving only hearsay and opinion, or mere "presumption" in the case of Sondwhatshisname, the whistleblower isn't qualified to be a whistleblower and he's a Democrat who hates Trump and hasw worked for Biden and Schiff was advising him although he claims not even to know who he is. Protesting his identity is an egregious violation of the principle of allowing the accused to confront his accuser. All sorts of principles of this sort, due process, are denied this President. Nothing Trump says is taken for true. He says he doesn't want a quid pro quo and he is accused of lying about that. There is nothing the man can do to defend himself, the cards are stacked against him, this is political corruption, denial of justice, to an unprecedented degree, and apparently the distortions are so deep and embedded nobody on your side can see them.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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frako
Member
Posts: 2851
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010
Member Rating: 3.8


(1)
Message 50 of 67 (867935)
12-05-2019 5:57 AM
Reply to: Message 34 by Faith
12-04-2019 1:45 PM


They sent aid for military defense against Russia to Ukraine

No bipartisan congress gave the aid, trump held up the aid for months about 70 Ukrainians died in the mean time, then the wistleblower report came out and trump immediately released the aid.


Christianity, One woman's lie about an affair that got seriously out of hand

What are the Christians gonna do to me ..... Forgive me, good luck with that.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 34 by Faith, posted 12-04-2019 1:45 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 51 by Faith, posted 12-05-2019 5:59 AM frako has responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 34460
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 51 of 67 (867936)
12-05-2019 5:59 AM
Reply to: Message 50 by frako
12-05-2019 5:57 AM


Unfortunatly I don't know the true story in order to answer you but I do know that Obama gave them NO aid whatever.

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
 Message 55 by Theodoric, posted 12-05-2019 9:03 AM Faith has not yet responded
 Message 58 by JonF, posted 12-05-2019 9:17 AM Faith has not yet responded
 Message 60 by frako, posted 12-05-2019 11:02 AM Faith has not yet responded
 Message 64 by Percy, posted 12-05-2019 8:09 PM Faith has responded

  
RAZD
Member
Posts: 20482
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
Member Rating: 3.5


Message 52 of 67 (867939)
12-05-2019 7:44 AM
Reply to: Message 31 by Faith
12-04-2019 12:30 PM


Re: Weasel words, not justice
... If you have "insufficient evidence ...to charge" ANYTHING, that means you've found the defendant NOT GUILTY. That is how our legal system works. ...

So Al Capone was innocent until he was charged with tax evasion. No murders or mob hustling at all, just a mistake on his tax form.

Fascinating.


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RAZD
Member
Posts: 20482
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
Member Rating: 3.5


(1)
Message 53 of 67 (867940)
12-05-2019 8:03 AM
Reply to: Message 34 by Faith
12-04-2019 1:45 PM


... The Ukrainians DID interfere in the election for Hillary, it's not propaganda. ...

It is Russian propaganda, every intelligence organization in the free world agrees that it is Russian propaganda and that there was NO interference in the election from Ukraine. Brits, French, Australian, etc concur.

Also we now have the useful conclusion from AG Barrs little waste of time investigation into the FBI, contacting foreign intelligence and going through our own intelligence service, that there was no plot on the FBI to investigate Trump, just his paranoia. That same paranoia that leads him to think that an individual saying an individual opinion of Trump during the election that he was a lousy candidate means that the whole of Ukraine was plotting to undermine his campaign. Of course it had nothing to do with Trump saying that the Crimea should belong to Russia instead of Ukraine like the rest of the world thought.

There is no cloudstrike either. That's a #rightwingnutjob conspiracy fantasy.

Russia interefered also.

As in also Saudi Arabia, and China, more of Trumps friends in high places. Because it's okay if they do it on his behalf but an evil plot if it's against him.

Enjoy


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Theodoric
Member
Posts: 6953
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 54 of 67 (867942)
12-05-2019 8:58 AM
Reply to: Message 30 by Percy
12-04-2019 12:10 PM


I see Hyro took his ball and went home
I guess he couldn't stand having his rank dishonesty called out time and time again.
As my one signature says,

quote:
If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?

This forum is a fantastic venue to learn and push your individual belief sets. I know that I am forced to defend my beliefs quite often and my beliefs have been changed. That change comes from opening your mind not closing it.
Hopefully, Hyro finds his place with the alt righters whose beliefs he embraces.

Edited by Admin, : Rerender after clearing disallowed words list.


Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 30 by Percy, posted 12-04-2019 12:10 PM Percy has acknowledged this reply

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 6953
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 55 of 67 (867943)
12-05-2019 9:03 AM
Reply to: Message 51 by Faith
12-05-2019 5:59 AM


That is not true.
Here are some actual facts. Not right wing fever dreams. Do you care to contest these facts?
quote:
By March 2015, the US had committed more than $120 million in security assistance for Ukraine and had pledged an additional $75 million worth of equipment including UAVs, counter-mortar radars, night vision devices and medical supplies, according to the Pentagon's Defense Security Cooperation Agency.
That assistance also included some 230 armored Humvee vehicles.
While it never provided lethal aid, many of the items that the Obama administration did provide were seen as critical to Ukraine's military. Part of the $250 million assistance package that the Trump administration announced (then froze and later unfroze) included many of the same items that were provided under Obama, including medical equipment, night vision gear and counter-artillery radar.

Fact-checking Trump's claim that Obama gave Ukraine 'pillows and sheets'

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 51 by Faith, posted 12-05-2019 5:59 AM Faith has not yet responded

  
RAZD
Member
Posts: 20482
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
Member Rating: 3.5


Message 56 of 67 (867945)
12-05-2019 9:09 AM
Reply to: Message 42 by Faith
12-04-2019 6:07 PM


Re: Weasel words, not justice
Besides admitting that Trump had clearly said he did not want a quid pro quo, all he wanted was for Zelensky to do the right thing, SONDLAND ALSO SAID HE "PRESUMED" IT, HE DID NOT KNOW IT, HE DIDN'T EVEN HEAR IT, HE "PRESUMED" IT. This is worse than hearsay, he made it up entirely in his own head and admitted it under interrogation.

Again, not completely true. After the overheard phone call from Sondland to Trump he told the aide that Trump was only interested in "the big things" ... the aide asked if that meant the Ukraine because a lot of big things were happening there with the war, and Sondland said "No, big things like the Biden investigation" ...

Here's from Fox2now (no liberal bias):

quote:
Watch a replay of Gordon Sondland testify during Trump impeachment hearing

Trump impeachment hearing - Day 4
{Sondland testimony starts at 24:38}

Tim Morrison, a former National Security Council official, told investigators that he came to understand that Sondland wasn’t acting on his own volition, but instead at Trump’s direction. Morrison said he knows of approximately five times Sondland had talked directly with Trump between July 25 and September 11, when the nearly $400 million in US military aid was finally released.

“He related to me he was acting — he was discussing these matters with the President,” Morrison said of Sondland.

Expect Democrats and Republicans to zero in on one conversation in particular between Sondland and Trump. On July 26, according to testimony from aide David Holmes, Sondland called Trump while in a restaurant. The call was so loud, Holmes could hear the President through the phone asking about the future of the investigations.

Holmes testified he’d never seen anything like the call before.

“This was an extremely distinctive experience in my foreign service career,” Holmes said in his closed-door deposition. “I’ve never seen anything like this, someone calling the President from a mobile phone at a restaurant, and then having a conversation of this level of candor, colorful language. There’s just so much about the call that was so remarkable that I remember it vividly.”

In the call, Sondland told Trump that Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky “loves your ass,” and he said that the Ukrainians were willing to move ahead with announcing the investigations.

In his deposition, Holmes said Sondland later told him that Trump “doesn’t give a s–t about Ukraine,” and that his primary focus was on the “big stuff” like the “Biden investigation that Giuliani is pushing.”

This is discussed at 1:25:00


What Holmes heard from Trump and from Sondland is evidence.

This is also covered by this youtube excerpt of just the Democrat Counsel's questioning of Sondland, specifically starting at t=9m

at 16:30 he describes it as quid pro quo.

Note that Sondland was not allowed to reference his emails and phone logs by the Secretary of State, so he is going solely on his memory and the evidence from others.

Enjoy


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This message is a reply to:
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JonF
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Posts: 5770
Joined: 06-23-2003
Member Rating: 2.1


Message 57 of 67 (867946)
12-05-2019 9:14 AM
Reply to: Message 42 by Faith
12-04-2019 6:07 PM


Re: Weasel words, not justice
Logical deductions are not worse than hearsay.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 42 by Faith, posted 12-04-2019 6:07 PM Faith has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
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JonF
Member
Posts: 5770
Joined: 06-23-2003
Member Rating: 2.1


(1)
Message 58 of 67 (867948)
12-05-2019 9:17 AM
Reply to: Message 51 by Faith
12-05-2019 5:59 AM


Unfortunately I don't know the true story in order to answer you but I do know that Obama gave them NO aid whatever.

Wrong as usual.

Fact-checking Trump's claim that Obama gave Ukraine 'pillows and sheets'

quote:
By March 2015, the US had committed more than $120 million in security assistance for Ukraine and had pledged an additional $75 million worth of equipment including UAVs, counter-mortar radars, night vision devices and medical supplies, according to the Pentagon's Defense Security Cooperation Agency.

That assistance also included some 230 armored Humvee vehicles.

...

While it never provided lethal aid, many of the items that the Obama administration did provide were seen as critical to Ukraine's military. Part of the $250 million assistance package that the Trump administration announced (then froze and later unfroze) included many of the same items that were provided under Obama, including medical equipment, night vision gear and counter-artillery radar.
The Trump administration did approve the provision of arms to Ukraine, including sniper rifles, rocket launchers and Javelin anti-tank missiles, something long sought by Kiev.



This message is a reply to:
 Message 51 by Faith, posted 12-05-2019 5:59 AM Faith has not yet responded

  
RAZD
Member
Posts: 20482
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
Member Rating: 3.5


Message 59 of 67 (867952)
12-05-2019 10:27 AM
Reply to: Message 57 by JonF
12-05-2019 9:14 AM


Re: Weasel words, not justice
Logical deductions are not worse than hearsay.

We KNOW there is a link from Trump to Giulliani from a number of sources, including his written statement in the phone call letter. We know that he told others to "talk to Rudy" when the subject of releasing the aid came up. Including Sondland and Taylor and Zelenski.

We KNOW that Rudy told Sondland that both the white house meeting and aid release were predicated on public announcement by Zelenski to initiate an investigation into Biden and 2016 interference, ie - "the deliverables"

We KNOW that the claim that it was pending an investigation into corruption is bogus because:

  1. the aid was released 2 days after the House investigation was announced with no evidence of any corruption investigation being completed (to meet the need to release the hold), and
  2. the reason given to the OMB was that the hold was pending Ukraine getting aid from other countries, and
  3. there was no indication that any other countries had been requested or received (to meet the need to release the hold)

When you have two entirely different, contradictory "excuses" for holding the aid and then having the aid suddenly released without ceremony and without either "excuse" being met before the aid was suddenly released with no explanation other than the House had initiated a hearing on the matter and that Trumpty was caught with his tiny hand in the cookie jar ... it doesn't take a rocket scientist to connect the dots.

It's what's called Circumstantial Evidence, rather than second hand anecdotal evidence (as republicans keep trying to say)

quote:
Circumstantial Evidence is also known as indirect evidence. It is distinguished from direct evidence, which, if believed, proves the existence of a particular fact without any inference or presumption required. Circumstantial evidence relates to a series of facts other than the particular fact sought to be proved. The party offering circumstantial evidence argues that this series of facts, by reason and experience, is so closely associated with the fact to be proved that the fact to be proved may be inferred simply from the existence of the circumstantial evidence.

The following examples illustrate the difference between direct and circumstantial evidence: If John testifies that he saw Tom raise a gun and fire it at Ann and that Ann then fell to the ground, John's testimony is direct evidence that Tom shot Ann. If the jury believes John's testimony, then it must conclude that Tom did in fact shoot Ann. If, however, John testifies that he saw Tom and Ann go into another room and that he heard Tom say to Ann that he was going to shoot her, heard a shot, and saw Tom leave the room with a smoking gun, then John's testimony is circumstantial evidence from which it can be inferred that Tom shot Ann. The jury must determine whether John's testimony is credible.

Circumstantial evidence is most often employed in criminal trials. Many circumstances can create inferences about an accused's guilt in a criminal matter, including the accused's resistance to arrest; the presence of a motive or opportunity to commit the crime; the accused's presence at the time and place of the crime; any denials, evasions, or contradictions on the part of the accused; and the general conduct of the accused. In addition, much Scientific Evidence is circumstantial, because it requires a jury to make a connection between the circumstance and the fact in issue. For example, with fingerprint evidence, a jury must make a connection between this evidence that the accused handled some object tied to the crime and the commission of the crime itself.


The multiple attempts by Trump to block investigations into Russian interference cited in the Mueller report and his directive to State Department Officials and White House aides to ignore lawful subpoenas are also circumstantial evidence of his guilt. It's called cover-up, and cover-up is what got Nixon impeached.

We have means, motive and opportunity.

We also KNOW that no White House meeting was held either (just an aside during a meeting at the UN that both attended).

'No Pressure,' Trump Insists, While Sitting With Ukraine's Zelensky at U.N.

We also KNOW that a scheduled interview between Zelenski and CNN was cancelled by Zelenski after the news of the House investigation broke.

Zelensky Was Set To Announce Biden Probe On CNN, Then Congress Pressed For Aid: Report

CNN host was set to interview Ukrainian President until scandal took shape

quote:
"We had been negotiating with President Zelensky and his office for a while, for months, to try to get an interview with him anyway, ever since he was elected President," Zakaria, host of "Fareed Zakaria GPS," told Baldwin.

Once news of the whistleblower's complaint surfaced, "it became clear to us that the interview was off," he continued.

The Times reported that the decision to unfreeze the aid to Ukraine erased the need for Zelensky's televised appearance.

Almost all of Zelensky's aides supported the planned announcement on the show, one of the officials who debated the issue told the Times. They agreed that American military aid and diplomatic support during upcoming peace talks were worth the risk of seeming to support Trump in the American political process, the paper reported.


So we know that both "deliverables" had been set up, but they ended when the news of the House investigation broke.

Now Dems could ask those Ukraine aides to testify if they wanted more evidence. Presumably they would also link Rudy in the plot.

Curiously, I have no problem with stepping back a bit and getting some subpoenas tested in court and getting some Ukrainians to testify, and not just Parnas ...

Exclusive: Parnas Helped Nunes’ Investigations

Get both sides of the story.

And it would be interesting to get Nunes to testify under oath about his "investigation" that he tried to push onto Dr Fiona Hill.

Enjoy

Edited by RAZD, : .

Edited by RAZD, : ..

Edited by RAZD, : ...


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This message is a reply to:
 Message 57 by JonF, posted 12-05-2019 9:14 AM JonF has not yet responded

  
frako
Member
Posts: 2851
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010
Member Rating: 3.8


Message 60 of 67 (867958)
12-05-2019 11:02 AM
Reply to: Message 51 by Faith
12-05-2019 5:59 AM


Here is the timeline, and Obama did give aid to Ukraine.


Christianity, One woman's lie about an affair that got seriously out of hand

What are the Christians gonna do to me ..... Forgive me, good luck with that.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 51 by Faith, posted 12-05-2019 5:59 AM Faith has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
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