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Author Topic:   Pence would be a worse President than Trump???
dwise1
Member
Posts: 4309
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 31 of 67 (869867)
01-07-2020 12:17 AM
Reply to: Message 5 by RAZD
01-05-2020 2:55 PM


Re: Pence and his extreme agenda
It's the agenda, Pence wants to make America a theocracy, Trump just wants to line his pockets.

I'm not certain that Pence wants to create an American theocracy, but I'm sure that he is sympathetic to that agenda and so would not impede such an effort.

One thing that is certain about Trump is that he has no ideology and that he will go along with anything so long as he thinks it will benefit him personally (or financially or politically ... keeping in mind that political benefits must also result in personal or financial benefits or else they don't count). That makes Trump pretty much the ultimate useful ***** -- an espionage term for an individual you can get to do your bidding without his realizing the treason that he is committing. Not only has Trump been doing everything that Putin (AKA "Trump's dear Puti-poo") would want him to do, but everybody in the Trump Administration with a personal or ideological agenda of their own (eg, Stephen Miller's white supremacism, evangelists' dominionism) is able to use Trump for their own purposes -- "Blow in my ear and I'll follow you anywhere." (Stock Laugh-In line, but given new life in real life here)

While I have no doubt that Pence has been the ear-blower for advancing theocracy, I cannot say for sure that he isn't himself the intermediary of the ear-blowing of others.


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Replies to this message:
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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 70 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 32 of 67 (869870)
01-07-2020 12:25 AM
Reply to: Message 31 by dwise1
01-07-2020 12:17 AM


Re: Pence and his extreme agenda
Maybe I should be happy so many on the Left haven't a clue about Trump since it guarantees defeat after defeat for them. There is no doubt in my mind that Trump stands for protecting American interests in every possible way and he cannot be swayed from that objective. That's behind every decision he makes.

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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dwise1
Member
Posts: 4309
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 33 of 67 (869871)
01-07-2020 12:38 AM
Reply to: Message 4 by JonF
01-05-2020 10:47 AM


Trump is evil and ****** and incompetent.

Pence is evil and smart and competent (at least compared to Trump).

Who would be more effective excercising evil?

Most certainly, Pence is by no means as much of a "fucking mooron" as Trump is (as per Rex Tillerson's extremely accurate initial assessment of Trump).

During the 2016 campaign, a comparison I heard of the damage that Trump and Cruz would do was that most of the damage done by Trump would be accidental as he would blunder about like a bull in a china shop. Rather, Cruz would know exactly where to plant the explosive charges to bring everything crashing down.

One aspect of our concern is whether Pence has the evil intentions of creating a theocracy. Another aspect is how susceptible he is to the manipulation of evil dominionists. Another aspect is how his natural inclinations towards dominion theology might cause him to stumble towards destroying the Constitution. Another aspect is how his beliefs in the End Times might lead to the self-fulfilled prophecy of our self-annihilation. Another aspect is how his divorce from reality ends up killing us all by other means.

But one thing that we will not have to worry about Pence is him pulling extremely shtupid shite like Trump does all the time.

 

Sea Story:
On my first drill at the Regional Readiness Command after the 2000 election, our boot RPC (Religious Programs Chief Petty Officer -- RPs not only support Navy chaplains, but also serve as their body guards in combat zones) approached me excited that a "true believer" (AKA "Dubya") was finally in the White House. I made a comment about having someone who believes in the End Times being in control of the US nuclear arsenal. That RPC suddenly became very quiet and pensive.

Edited by dwise1, : replacing pronouns in "But one thing ... " to reduce ambiguity


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dwise1
Member
Posts: 4309
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 2.5


(1)
Message 34 of 67 (869875)
01-07-2020 1:41 AM
Reply to: Message 32 by Faith
01-07-2020 12:25 AM


Re: Pence and his extreme agenda
Wow! The cluelessness is very strong in this one!

We can safely disregard your redefining the world yet again as meaningless blather (America loving and Constitution loving conservative patriots are not "on the Left", but rather they see the very clear and present danger that Trump presents to America -- Senior Chief Nance was a life-long conservative, nearly every male Nance has served in the US military since the Civil War and his niece now serves in the US Navy and has seen combat, SCPO Nance likewise wears the Navy Combat Action Ribbon and has been in combat against Iranian forces, all of which you falsely label as "leftist"). Do please remind us of where and when you had served, when and how many times you have sworn a solemn oath to protect and defend the Constitution of the United States of America against all enemies, both foreign and domestic. Also remind us of where and how you had received any kind of leadership training. IOW, how could anybody even begin to assume that you have any clue whatsoever about the nonsense that you keep blathering?

Cadet Bonespurs is all about himself and only about himself. He doesn't care about America's interests, unless he can manipulate that to his own benefit. Everybody who knew anything at all about Trump has always known that. Why do you think that Trump did so poorly in New York? Because everybody there already knew what a crook he is! As soon as he was elected, he went about bragging that he would be the first president to profit from the office -- HINT: The US Constitution's domestic emoluments clause restricts the President's income to what the Constitution specifies and prohibits him from receiving any other income from the government, yet he receives government money (in direct violation of the Constitution's domestic emoluments clause) every single time he goes golfing at one of his own golf resorts. Furthermore, he arbitrarily chose Doral as the site of the next G-7 summit, perhaps the most naked act of corruption possible.

And as for American interests being "behind every decision he makes".

Trump has lots of financial interests in Russia. Even though he lied to the contrary, he was still pursuing his Moscow Trump Tower project during the 2016 campaign. The truth of that didn't come out until later, but in the meantime Trump was violating regulations and lying outright to his followers, all with the direct knowledge of Putin, so during all that time Trump was compromised -- while you may suffer from a severe lack of military counter-intelligence training, compromise is a very valuable tool for the KGB (while the acronym may have changed, the apparatus is still in place and operating fully -- Putin, Trump's favorite boy-friend, is a veteran KGB agent so he would know better than anybody else the value of compromise (kompromat, компрометирующий материал)).

Oh, we understand Trump far too well. The problem is that we are saddled with 18th Century measures to deal with a 21st Century problem. For one thing, the Founders did not envision that the Senate would have also been corrupted.

Food for thought. Trump doesn't give a fuck about you. Especially if you have any pre-existing medical conditions, such as the ones that you keep complaining to us about.

Post-Post-Script:
My family had traditionally been Republican, but then I came of voting age under Nixon, so I naturally registered Democrat.

Between one or two decades ago, my elder sister's husband, a life-long Republican and still so against his own interests (they're also fundies), suddenly one night stated, "You know, now that I'm retired, I'm starting to realize that the Republicans are not my friends." And yet, years later, he expressed open surprise that I had voted for Obama -- for that matter, I will forever be proud that my military retirement document was signed by Obama and not by some anti-American fucking Republican.


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 Message 32 by Faith, posted 01-07-2020 12:25 AM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 35 by Faith, posted 01-07-2020 5:23 AM dwise1 has responded

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 70 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 35 of 67 (869876)
01-07-2020 5:23 AM
Reply to: Message 34 by dwise1
01-07-2020 1:41 AM


Re: Pence and his extreme agenda
There are many more military people who support what Trump did than oppose him. There are wimpy conservatives too, so what. Being scared of what Iran could do to us is about as wimpy stupid as you can get. Instead of letting a terrorist go on killing people Trump took him out. That's the only right thing to do with a terrorist of that guy's influence and it sends the right message that we don't tolerate killing our people. THAT is how we defend American interests, not by giving in to evil murderers. We can certainly follow up on any threats or even actual retaliation if they are that stupid.

The rest of your Trump-hating spiel isn't worth a second thought.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


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Replies to this message:
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 Message 40 by JonF, posted 01-07-2020 9:04 AM Faith has responded
 Message 48 by dwise1, posted 01-07-2020 11:37 PM Faith has not yet responded
 Message 51 by Hyroglyphx, posted 01-08-2020 2:11 AM Faith has not yet responded

  
frako
Member
Posts: 2923
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010


Message 36 of 67 (869877)
01-07-2020 6:31 AM
Reply to: Message 35 by Faith
01-07-2020 5:23 AM


Re: Pence and his extreme agenda
Call him whatever you want he was an Iranian general, so killing him was a deceleration of war. And both china and Russia are Iranian allies. So Good luck with that.

Christianity, One woman's lie about an affair that got seriously out of hand

What are the Christians gonna do to me ..... Forgive me, good luck with that.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 35 by Faith, posted 01-07-2020 5:23 AM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 37 by Faith, posted 01-07-2020 6:35 AM frako has responded

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 70 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 37 of 67 (869878)
01-07-2020 6:35 AM
Reply to: Message 36 by frako
01-07-2020 6:31 AM


Re: Pence and his extreme agenda
No the war was declared by them against us as he killed our people. The action Trump took was with the intention of ending it. If they want to accelerate it, that would be a suicidal move on their part. Appeasement and cowardice are disgusting. We'll defend ourselves just fine.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


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frako
Member
Posts: 2923
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010


Message 38 of 67 (869879)
01-07-2020 6:55 AM
Reply to: Message 37 by Faith
01-07-2020 6:35 AM


Re: Pence and his extreme agenda
who when?

Christianity, One woman's lie about an affair that got seriously out of hand

What are the Christians gonna do to me ..... Forgive me, good luck with that.


This message is a reply to:
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JonF
Member
Posts: 6169
Joined: 06-23-2003
Member Rating: 1.6


Message 39 of 67 (869881)
01-07-2020 9:03 AM
Reply to: Message 32 by Faith
01-07-2020 12:25 AM


Re: Pence and his extreme agenda
Trump stands for protecting his personal interests and nothing else. That's behind every decision he makes.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 32 by Faith, posted 01-07-2020 12:25 AM Faith has not yet responded

  
JonF
Member
Posts: 6169
Joined: 06-23-2003
Member Rating: 1.6


Message 40 of 67 (869882)
01-07-2020 9:04 AM
Reply to: Message 35 by Faith
01-07-2020 5:23 AM


Re: Pence and his extreme agenda
Instead of letting a terrorist go on killing people Trump took him out. That's the only right thing to do with a terrorist of that guy's influence and it sends the right message that we don't tolerate killing our people.

And that we don't care about US ort international law.

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 Message 35 by Faith, posted 01-07-2020 5:23 AM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 41 by Faith, posted 01-07-2020 2:07 PM JonF has responded

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 70 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 41 of 67 (869891)
01-07-2020 2:07 PM
Reply to: Message 40 by JonF
01-07-2020 9:04 AM


Re: Pence and his extreme agenda
What "law" says we are not allowed to retaliate against the criminal attacks on our people by evil terrorists?

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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JonF
Member
Posts: 6169
Joined: 06-23-2003
Member Rating: 1.6


(1)
Message 42 of 67 (869892)
01-07-2020 2:53 PM
Reply to: Message 41 by Faith
01-07-2020 2:07 PM


Re: Pence and his extreme agenda
The War Powers Act of 1973. Of course we are allowed to retaliate lawfully. The President may not cause significant conflict escalation without consulting Congress unless there is danger so imminent that it must be stopped immediately.

The White House is claiming imminent danger, but there are lots of problems with that.

They have not released any convincing details of any such attack. Even those who have seen the classified after-the-fact report to Congress are not convinced.

Soleimani was a top leader and planner. He wouldn't participate in an attack. If there were an imminent attack coming it was planned months ago and taking out Soleimani wouldn't stop it.

We've known about Soleimani for decades. Previous administrations refrained from targeting him because they felt it would be too provocative. He hadn't done anything new recently. Why now? Well, it's a fact that it took away a lot of talk about impeachment. Make of that what you will.

Several government officials have said he was assassinated in retaliation for Iran's recent actions. Personally, I believe them. If that's true the assassination was not targeting an imminent threat.

Assassination is against US law. But the law doesn't define assassination precisely and leaves several loopholes. We've assassinated many people since that law was passed with no consequences (for various reasons). So it would be hypocritical to punish Trump for breaking that particular law.


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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 70 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 43 of 67 (869897)
01-07-2020 4:00 PM
Reply to: Message 42 by JonF
01-07-2020 2:53 PM


Re: Pence and his extreme agenda
Of course it was in retaliation. What kind of crap law says we have to ignore the killing of our people? The "threat" had come and gone, what kind of crap law says we have to sit still for the murder of our people? They need to know we don't stand for it and know that there will be worse if they continue. And other Presidents have acted unilaterally to a far greater degree than Trump. It's only because it's Trump that the Leftists are objecting. STOP IT. WAKE UP.

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frako
Member
Posts: 2923
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010


Message 44 of 67 (869899)
01-07-2020 4:14 PM
Reply to: Message 43 by Faith
01-07-2020 4:00 PM


Re: Pence and his extreme agenda
What people did iran kill?

Christianity, One woman's lie about an affair that got seriously out of hand

What are the Christians gonna do to me ..... Forgive me, good luck with that.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 43 by Faith, posted 01-07-2020 4:00 PM Faith has not yet responded

  
JonF
Member
Posts: 6169
Joined: 06-23-2003
Member Rating: 1.6


Message 45 of 67 (869900)
01-07-2020 5:20 PM
Reply to: Message 43 by Faith
01-07-2020 4:00 PM


Re: Pence and his extreme agenda
Yeah, it was retaliation. And illegal under US law. The law was written to allow such retaliation after consulting with Congress. The intent was to prevent a rogue President from starting a war on his own. The Constitution reserves starting or joining wars to Congress.

Boy, you really can't stand our laws and Constitution.

And other Presidents have acted unilaterally to a far greater degree than Trump.

When and what have they done?

(We know you couldn't name an instance to save your life. You're the queen of unsupportable declarations.}


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